Full screen Amiga games

[Steve]

Some PAL games even use overscan mode which is actually bigger than most old TV screens. For example The Settlers uses this screen mode to good effect and also Sensible World of Soccer.

[Galahad/FLT]

Essentially, it depends on the game.

Yes a lot of games had the blank border at the bottom because it meant if they did an NTSC release, it meant less faffing about getting it to run, because otherwise, the fundamentals of the game might be ruined.

However, this is not the case with all games.

Stuff like Shadow of the Beast had a smaller window still, with side borders, this is because the game was quite technically intensive, without that smaller window, you start to get slowdown, or too much DMA time is taken up so some sprites don't display properly or flicker, or just simply disappear completely.

Most games are different cases, yes a lot of the Atari ST style ports could be made to run fullscreen by activating 60hz screen refresh, but then the game runs too fast, so you get a benefit one way, and a problem.

As others have said, there is no one-size-fits-all solution.

Some programmers were lazy, others were doing it for very sound business reasons, others were doing it because what they wanted from the game couldn't be done fullscreen.

And the Amiga has so many tricks up its sleeve with regards to display, theres just no one piece of code that could possibly serve ALL games.

[chromium]

Thanks guys, I guess I just have to suck it up

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by TCD

Maybe instead of assuming things you should test some games instead... You'd be surprised I guess.

Maybe instead of assuming things you should realise that I have been running such games in NTSC mode since the early nineties...

[TCD]

I'm not assuming things either. Your statement about counting games that have problems on one hand is simply wrong.

[john1979]

Originally Posted by Hewitson

The majority of them use that resolution because they are designed to be compatible with NTSC computers. I bet you could count the number of "PAL" games which don't work correctly in NTSC on one hand.

I don't think this statement is so far from the truth.

The majority of games I've tried via WHDload that have the huge border at the bottom run correctly when forced into NTSC mode.

There are plenty of exceptions of course, such as Stunt Car Racer, Lemmings etc. But the majority it is simply an NTSC switch that is required.

The only way to end this debate would be the compilation of a full list of games that don't use the bottom screen area and whether NTSC mode fixes it or not.

edit: There are some games I think are basically so squashed they are broken when in PAL mode, Frontier Elite II is one I find only playable in NTSC. And Test Drive II is squashed and runs like a dog in PAL mode.

Originally Posted by Hewitson

Remember on the PAL consoles how you got those borders on the top and the bottom of the screen?

For this issue I modded my Megadrive with a PAL/NTSC switch

[Retro-Nerd]

But the majority it is simply an NTSC switch that is required.

That's not true. As i said before, and Galahad explained more detailed, it's not comparable with consoles and the 50/60Hz switch. The Amiga has no fixed resolutions, where you can switch all the games into fullscreen mode in 60Hz. The black borders differs from game to game in vertical and horizontal size. For reasons, see also Galahads comment above.

[john1979]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

That's not true. As i said before, and Galahad explained more detailed, it's not comparable with consoles and the 50/60Hz switch. The Amiga has no fixed resolutions, where you can switch all the games into fullscreen mode in 60Hz. The black borders differs from game to game in vertical and horizontal size. For reasons, see also Galahads comment above.

Sure, I know many games intentionally didn't use all of the screen such as SOTB and it wasn't anything to do with NTSC land.

But, speaking from my experience, there are a LOT of games that have that usual bottom border cut and it can be fixed by just switching to 60hz. They are usually very easy to spot. I can't think of many occasions where I've tried switching and it hasn't given me a full screen game that works correctly.

Galahad pointed out that this causes some to then run too fast, but since I have no idea what the correct speed of the game should be anyway, it's not a problem. (Unless the music sounds really odd )

[Retro-Nerd]

And you will find many Amiga games im 320x200 which cuts a viewable part of the bottom image, if you switch to NTSC on a PAL Amiga/PAL TV.

[Jope]

I wonder why this subject pops up every now and again.

This is how the games were viewed when they were coding them on a PAL Amiga. This is how we viewed them when we were playing them in the 80s and 90s.

Stretching them to fullscreen doesn't fix them, since they weren't broken in the first place. :-)

Naturally the few American games were meant to fill the screen, but the vast majority originated from Europe. :-)

[Retro-Nerd]

Yep, that's the whole point. Most Amiga games were original PAL developments while 90-95% of the console games were original NTSC games, mostly not adapted for their PAL versions (besides the 50fps speed and PAL colors).

[Sandro]

Originally Posted by chromium

I am using a PAL Amiga 500. A very early one as it has Kickstart 1.2 roms.

Most games I play don't fill the screen and have a large blank area at the bottom of the screen as seen below.



Any ideas?

there are some games that runs in full screen in pal
try superfrog, Assasin,Alien breed series,zool 1 and 2, pacmania etc

[chromium]

I still wouldn't mind having the 60Hz switch so I at least have the option to try. Are there any guides anywhere? Today I installed a 60hz switch in my Mega Drive and I'm loving it
Full screen and no slowness

[Retro-Nerd]

It makes no sense to have a 60Hz switch on a PAL Amiga, because the games run too fast then. Unless you want to play the few original NTSC Amiga games. It works maybe better for a few PAL games which had performance issues. And you cut a part of the buttom image for many PAL games in 60Hz as i said before.

[chromium]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

It makes no sense to have a 60Hz switch on a PAL Amiga, because the games run too fast then. Unless you want to play the few original NTSC Amiga games. It works maybe better for a few PAL games which had performance issues. And you cut a part of the buttom image for many PAL games in 60Hz as i said before.

Does this mean that US NTSC users can barely play any games properly or were there NTSC versions of most things?

[Retro-Nerd]

There were NTSC versions, but compared to all Amiga PAL games only a few. Quite the opposite to consoles games back then.

[john1979]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

It makes no sense to have a 60Hz switch on a PAL Amiga, because the games run too fast then. Unless you want to play the few original NTSC Amiga games. It works maybe better for a few PAL games which had performance issues. And you cut a part of the buttom image for many PAL games in 60Hz as i said before.

Some games run too fast, not all of them. It's all depends on what you want, it's subjective. Like I said, some games even benefit from the speed increase.

Games that were designed to be smaller screen size to allow for NTSC won't have the bottom cut off in 60hz mode. I'm guessing those games which are cut shouldn't be run in NTSC mode in the first place.

Does this mean that US NTSC users can barely play any games properly or were there NTSC versions of most things?

I'm guessing you're not running WHDload? It's easy to test NTSC by adding the tooltype and giving the game a quick try. If you don't like it, simply remove the tooltype. Just because a game is running slightly faster does not mean you're not playing it properly. It all comes down to what you want from it.

[Retro-Nerd]

Games that were designed to be smaller screen size to allow for NTSC won't have the bottom cut off in 60hz mode. I'm guessing those games which are cut shouldn't be run in NTSC mode in the first place.

Then try e.g. R-Type 2 or Mega Twins. Both PAL versions have big black borders, and set to NTSC the buttom image is cut. Only two examples of many PAL games. And yes, both games are really smoother in NTSC mode because they never ran in full 50fps, like good Amiga games should do.

[chromium]

Originally Posted by john1979

I'm guessing you're not running WHDload? It's easy to test NTSC by adding the tooltype and giving the game a quick try. If you don't like it, simply remove the tooltype. Just because a game is running slightly faster does not mean you're not playing it properly. It all comes down to what you want from it.

Not on this machine, no. It's an Amiga 500 with KS 1.2 and a 512k ram expansion I've got a Gotek floppy emu mounted inside. It's awesome!

I do have other Amiga 500s, at least one is a Rev 6A board with Fat Agnus, so I could put in a 60Hz switch.

I have an Amiga 1200 with WHDload so I'll have a play, thanks.