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Old 08 May 2018, 08:55   #1
hexaae
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Sound glitches with CPU Idle(?)

Wanted to report that I find the sound emu very slow (= crackles and tiny desyncs) with beta 4.0.0. In particular from WB (desktop Picasso emulation 1920x1080) even Delitracker have issues at playing simple 4 channels mods. I tried all possible combos, including PortAudio… but when the buffer is too big (6-10) I see annoying lags in games and desync to make them unplayable.

With WinUAE 2.5.1 I don't have these crackles and audio routines seem MUCH faster and liter (and I can keep buffer at "3")… Is there something special to set up to fix this behaviour, besides "CPU idle" at minimum (that does not fix the issue)?

Windows 10 x64 1803 (17134.1), Nvidia drivers 397.31 WHQL (1920x1080 75Hz G-Sync display), GeForce Experience 3.7.0.81
Gaming laptop ASUS G751JY
Chipset: Intel HM87 Lynx Point, CPU: i7-4860HQ, RAM: 24GB DDR3L 2133MHz, Gfx card: GTX 980M (GM204M, 10DE-1617/1043-22DA Rev A1, vBIOS v84.04.48.00.39), 4GB GDDR5 (Micron)], OS: Windows 10 x64 FCU, Screen: G-Sync LG Philips LP173WF4-SPD1 (LGD046C) 17", desktop res: 1080p 75Hz, HD: SSD 2TB 540MB/s, Audio:Realtek HD (ALC668), Controllers: Competition Pro USB arcade joystick SpeedLink SL-6603-SPORTS-EU, XBox One Bluetooth controller, Microsoft PN7-00004 Bluetooth mouse

Last edited by hexaae; 08 May 2018 at 09:16.
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Old 08 May 2018, 09:05   #2
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hexaae View Post
Wanted to report that I find the sound emu very slow (= crackles and tiny desyncs) with beta 4.0.0. In particular from WB (desktop Picasso emulation 1920x1080) even Delitracker have issues at playing simple 4 channel mods. I tried all possible combos, including PortAudio… but when the buffer is too high (6-10) I see an annoying lag in games and desync to make them unplayable.

With WinUAE 2.5.1 I don't have these crackles and audio routines seem MUCH faster and liter… Is there something special to set up to fix this behaviour, besides "CPU idle" at minimum (that does not fix the issue)?
I don't think this has much to do with OPs post. This is more like "generic" something is going on with sound without any actual useful information.. Sorry.

And finally, comparing to some ancient version is useless, LAST better working version or FIRST "not-really working version" must be included, not some randomly chosen old version and not mentioning 4.0 only because it is latest..

EDIT: Do you mean CPU Idle at minimum always "fixes" it? And it does go to idle state even when set to minimum+1 when playing modules? (CPU% goes to very low value).

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 08 May 2018 at 09:12.
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Old 08 May 2018, 09:12   #3
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Ok
Will try all versions in between and report back where "it started" behaving so slow for me...

EDIT: no, unfortunately setting CPU idle to min or max won't change crackles and slowness

Last edited by hexaae; 08 May 2018 at 09:18.
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Old 08 May 2018, 09:25   #4
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Is it on a separate task the audio routine in Beta 4.0.0? Do we have control over this task (pri, buffers, cores usage…) using hidden settings?

Last edited by hexaae; 08 May 2018 at 09:32.
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Old 08 May 2018, 09:39   #5
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hexaae View Post
Is it on a separate task the audio routine in Beta 4.0.0? Do we have control over this task (pri, buffers, cores usage…) using hidden settings?
It can't be separate because audio timing is hardwired to chipset timing. It would only work with extra buffers which would add latency.

Check also my edit in previous post.
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Old 08 May 2018, 09:45   #6
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Mmmh, ok. I replied already in msg #3: no unfortunately changing "CPU idle" won't cure the problem. I have to use very big buffers with beta 4.0.0 (with consequent annoying delays in games) to avoid crackles, in comparison with old WinUAE versions (will tell you when it started)...
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Old 08 May 2018, 09:53   #7
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hexaae the audio with the WinUAE 4.0.0 works well, if you look at my video you will see that I can play three at the same time mp3 without problems. In many cases the problem is Windows if you have a program in the background on windows, for example a program that scans or that makes use of audio I can slow down or sobs.

---------- italiano ----------

hexaae l'audio con la WinUAE 4.0.0 funziona bene, se guardi il mio video vedrai che riesco a suonare tre mp3 contemporaneamente senza problemi. In molti casi il problema è Windows, se su Windows hai un programma in background per esempio un programma che fa scansioni o che fa uso di audio possono accadere rallentamenti o singhiozzi.

[ Show youtube player ]

Last edited by AMIGASYSTEM; 08 May 2018 at 10:01.
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Old 08 May 2018, 10:42   #8
Toni Wilen
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Sorry but that was quite useless comment. Of course it works in most situations or this forum would be filled with complaints. It should be obvious.

Difficult part is to find exact reasons when it does not work. Simply blaming Windows is cheap way out.
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Old 08 May 2018, 10:48   #9
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@AMIGASYSTEM
No it's not (I'm using WinUAE for a long time, I'm not a newbie and I can see the difference), and if you play MP3 you probably use a different audio device (AHI?)…
With Delitracker playing through Paula audio device on a Picasso IV emulated Workbench 1920x1080 I hear (and see, because of small lags opening drawers etc.) a noticeable difference, and frequent crackles I didn't have with the same cfg on WinUAE 2.5.1:
[ Show youtube player ]
The only explanation is that something in the timing routines of WinUAE has changed. I'll have to investigate what WinUAE version introduced this delay for me.

Windows handles multitasking quite well on Windows 10 kernel (on a decent PC) and it can't be caused by background tasks, nor I have DPC latency issues, so... Moreover I have nothing running in bg, Windows CPU usage while playing Delitracker is 15-20%:
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Old 08 May 2018, 10:52   #10
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Toni it is really difficult to identify the exact cause,in some cases it is sufficient to restart WinUAE to resolve the problem, maybe in that fraction of time Windows has finished a procedure and everything returns to work perfectly.
For example, i have the problem when I'm seeing at the same time Real-Time TV or when the Antivirus monitors the system, or other applications that engage Windows.

Of course, things have improved since I added the SounBlaster Platinum Sound Card to my PC
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Old 08 May 2018, 10:59   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hexaae View Post
@AMIGASYSTEM
No it's not (I'm using WinUAE for a long time, I'm not a newbie and I can see the difference), and if you play MP3 you probably use a different audio device (AHI?)
Yes AHI UAE 16Bit HIFI Stereo
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Old 08 May 2018, 11:22   #12
Toni Wilen
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AHI is totally different, don't even attempt to make any connections to Paula audio. This is why audio related issues needs to be described exactly. Including config file. Using as minimized config as possible. Also noting any configs that do sound fine. (for example I assume basic A1200/A500 config works fine?)

Does sound change if you switch screen to native screen? Does anything change if RTG resolution is very small? And so on..
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Old 09 May 2018, 08:44   #13
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Toni… In the meanwhile I've logged some weird crashes just pressing F12, while playing mods (Paula audio device) with Delitracker on my Picasso emulated Workbench. It's random: sometimes hangs with continuous last sound until I kill the task, some others it just crashes directly (= no GUI is even opened, direct crash pressing F12).
Here are the logs after crash: https://1drv.ms/u/s!ApMUGr0cuN39gZcJ85cwA0ohrjuy6w

(In my #1 message above my HW config, with a 75Hz 1920x1080 G-Sync display)

Last edited by hexaae; 10 May 2018 at 00:16.
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Old 09 May 2018, 12:08   #14
Toni Wilen
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I haven't yet checked the dump but if you get hang, use task manager to create crash dump (right click winuae.exe -> create dump file).

EDIT: Do not use winuae.7z executables. Only official betas (or finals) create useful dump files.

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 09 May 2018 at 18:03.
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Old 10 May 2018, 00:16   #15
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Winuae.dmp when hung with last sound playing continuously: https://1drv.ms/u/s!ApMUGr0cuN39gZcKvstYFSoaYpCNOQ
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Old 10 May 2018, 08:57   #16
Toni Wilen
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Unfortunately JIT makes this dump mostly useless. Can you duplicate it without enabled JIT?
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Old 10 May 2018, 09:12   #17
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Here is it: https://1drv.ms/u/s!ApMUGr0cuN39gZcNG-R8XcBG2gLuuA

BTW, why in DX11 mode the GUI (F12) won't pop-up over its open screen and switches to Windows desktop? In DX9 with F12 it does. Here is the cfg I use: https://1drv.ms/u/s!ApMUGr0cuN39gZcMgPA41jogD3fcig

Last edited by hexaae; 10 May 2018 at 09:19. Reason: updated attachment
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Old 10 May 2018, 09:33   #18
Toni Wilen
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It appears to be stuck in nvwgf2um.dll, not much help here..

D3D11 can't do GDI elements in fullscreen mode. There is no other way than to drop out of fullscreen temporarily.

Did it always happen or only after nvidia drivers updated or Windows updated or winuae was updated?
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Old 10 May 2018, 10:05   #19
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Not sure when it started… maybe after 1803 but I won't bet on it.
Could it be a g-sync bug because of quick screen switch back to Windows desktop? Should I try with g-sync off? It never happens in DX9 mode.

In winauelog.txt (see attachment at http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...3&postcount=13 ) I see strange lines like:

Code:
10-855 [177 000-000]: SNDRATE 263.0*227.5*59.280407=3546894.948950
10-855 [177 000-000]: NTSC mode V=59.2804Hz H=15590.7471Hz (227x262+1) IDX=-1 (<?>) D=0 RTG=1/1
10-855 [177 000-000]: ActiveHeight: 1080 TotalHeight: 1111 VFreq=75002/1000=75.00Hz HFreq=173320000/2080=83.327KHz
10-855 [177 000-000]: ActiveHeight: 1080 TotalHeight: 1111 VFreq=75002/1000=75.00Hz HFreq=173320000/2080=83.327KHz
10-855 [177 000-000]: RTGFREQ: 262*59.2804 = 15531.4658 / 75.0 = 207
10-864 [177 227-200]: pull overflow! 1024 512 1024
10-886 [178 228-228]: pull overflow! 1024 512 1024
10-904 [179 227-256]: pull overflow! 1024 512 1024
10-917 [180 227-201]: pull overflow! 1024 512 1024
10-944 [182 227-091]: pull overflow! 1024 512 1024
10-957 [183 227-036]: pull overflow! 1024 512 1024
10-976 [184 228-064]: pull overflow! 1024 512 1024
10-986 [184 228-230]: pull overflow! 1024 512 1024
11-015 [186 228-078]: pull overflow! 1024 512 1024
...
Is this ok?
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Old 10 May 2018, 10:54   #20
Toni Wilen
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It means there are sound buffer underflows.

If you use RTG in native resolution, try full-window mode, it makes mode switching much faster without losing g-sync. (if g-sync is windowed mode enabled).
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