15 September 2020, 16:40 | #1 |
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TF1260 cloning legality discussion
@hammer so then why do you claim that there is no "special patent"
the content of the cpld is the magic and the secret.. the hardware is just to tie shitloads of pins from the computer and cpu to them.. |
15 September 2020, 16:46 | #2 | |
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InfoWorld wrote on the first anniversary of the IBM PC that[4] The dark side of an open system is its imitators. If the specs are clear enough for you to design peripherals, they are clear enough for you to design imitations. Apple ... has patents on two important components of its systems ... IBM, which reportedly has no special patents on the PC, is even more vulnerable. Numerous PC-compatible machines—the grapevine says 60 or more—have begun to appear in the marketplace. Compaq could not copy the BIOS directly as a result of the court decision in Apple v. Franklin, but it could reverse-engineer the IBM BIOS and then write its own BIOS using clean room design. |
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15 September 2020, 17:30 | #3 | |
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17 September 2020, 09:46 | #4 | |
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In contrast to that, any sufficiently non-trivial piece of software is copyright protected without any need for further action by the author(s). Nowadays most electronic devices have some kind of firmware as an essential part of their design, thus the much broader copyright laws apply here, reducing the need to protect the hardware design. But if that can be circumvented by letting the user install the firmware (and therefore breaking the law), distribution of a clone may still be legal. I am not familiar with this clone, so I do not know if that's the case here. They might also have violated other laws (trademarks, copyright for e.g. some graphical logos on the board). That said, I have no idea about Polish copyright law, and also IANAL ofc. |
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17 September 2020, 13:14 | #5 | |||
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17 September 2020, 14:09 | #6 | |||||
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The EU directive states it the following way: Quote:
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17 September 2020, 15:03 | #7 | ||||
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17 September 2020, 15:38 | #8 | ||||
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But as said, I may be wrong, but if it's important for someone's project, you should definitely consult a knowledgeable person (and that's not me for sure). |
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17 September 2020, 16:00 | #9 | ||||
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Average designers draw protected-yet-not-groundbreaking designs all the time (I know - I'm one of them, amongst around 40 other "average designers" where I work). That doesn't stop people at other companies drawing similar designs, but it does protect that exact design from being used elsewhere. |
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17 September 2020, 16:07 | #10 | |
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17 September 2020, 17:55 | #11 |
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I agree with Daedalus that a schematic or a pcb layout is as much a copyrightable drawing as any other drawing...
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18 September 2020, 06:23 | #12 |
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18 September 2020, 06:38 | #13 | |
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According TF, bound has access to a machine that can cleanly dismantle PCB's layers which enables scanned PCB to be made. PCB copying business example, http://www.kynixsemiconductor.com/News/65.html Nowadays, there are a number of well-known companies in the industry that can help you copy those complex PCB boards. Under US law, https://www.cnczone.com/forums/gener...html#post99586 The US CopyRight and Patent laws are different from the rest of the world. US applies 'First Invented', everywhere else applies 'First Filed'. The US allows under First Filed different scope than else where, some more extensive, some less so. For intellectual property extensive range for Copyright of Commercial, creative and industrial Property - including artwork and Software apply. While a circuit boards plans (not schematics) are probably protected by copyright, the copyright is weak because the boards are useful articles under section 101, and copyright does not protect industrial design in the US. Circuit boards are utilitarian works and it is the utility one seeks to protect, not the artistic expression of that utility. Should the plans be awarded copyright, that is if the plans are protected, they are protected only in their aesthetic aspects under the IP law, and then only to the extent that their aesthetic aspects are separable from their utilitarian aspects Since the boards' layouts are probably dictated solely by function, and not by aesthetics, copyright protection is likely to be weak or nonexistent. Unlike architecture (before the 1990 Act), circuit boards are not designed for aesthetic viewing. In a case of egregious copying involving the plans, a court might be tempted to award damages, but doubtful. Injunctive relief is unlikely in the extreme. The 1984 silicon statute covering trace and substrate was explicitly made in law to protect semiconductor chips. There is no similar coverage for plans ( circuit board layout) or for circuit schematics other than where the schematic contains entirely non publicly available proprietory silicon and the plan is a necessary functional additive element of the function of the silicon . ---------- PC clone industry can exist in the US. Note why Tesla and Apple uses DRM and unique component ID list stored in encrypted memory storage methods to protect componet designs. Weak US copyright law on PCB is similar to Germany's. As for Look-a-like IBM 5160 clone argument, it's in cloner's own interest to modify IBM's design to be cheaper i.e. the "cheap knockoff" direction. Last edited by hammer; 18 September 2020 at 07:31. |
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18 September 2020, 10:21 | #14 | ||||||
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Again, I am not a lawyer, but this article from a legal scholar at Max Planck Gesellschaft seems to align with what I've written: Quote:
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Again, I want to stress again I'm not defending cloning in cases like the TF boards, on the contrary. I just want to warn people that they give a thought if IP protection is important for their project, to avoid nasty surprises. Quote:
Last edited by chb; 18 September 2020 at 10:30. |
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18 September 2020, 11:02 | #15 |
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Hey, this is supposed to be a thread about the TF1260, which thankfully looks like it will still get finished.
Could a mod split out the legal arguing about bound/copyright law/etc into a new thread? ...and then delete this comment? |
18 September 2020, 14:56 | #16 |
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Split from http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=100045
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22 September 2020, 16:52 | #17 | |
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23 September 2020, 15:44 | #18 | ||
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It's interesting that German law seems to have specific exemptions, which isn't the case for the rest
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Of course, if they did make a 1:1 copy, it might never be discovered, but a company still wouldn't risk it. In fact, companies will even go out of their way to make a coincidentally similar part look different to a competitor's counterpart purely to avoid the legal risk. Quote:
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23 September 2020, 15:49 | #19 | |
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I've no idea why you think US law is relevant here, but even so, try use one of those cloning companies to mass produce a 100% copy of an IBM board and see how well you get on. |
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23 September 2020, 15:55 | #20 |
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