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Old 04 November 2020, 09:32   #41
Toni Wilen
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Definitely better WASAPI now: 50fps most of the time. Still a little bit worse than DSOUND though: WASAPI suffers (a few rare) audio clicks in comparison.
Didn't you already report separately long time ago?
Did you test if same happens with some other sound card or even some cheap USB headset?
Do you get random "pull underflow" messages in the log?

Also I only asked if frame rate is still smooth with sound enabled, I didn't ask about sound
EDIT: at least I have noticed fps counter is now very stable even with wasapi sound enabled. (no +-1 jumps anymore)

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 04 November 2020 at 10:27.
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Old 04 November 2020, 12:54   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Did you test if same happens with some other sound card or even some cheap USB headset?
Yes it still sounds a little bit worse (audio clicks) when I use WASAPI compared to DSOUND (which sounds exactly the same, without clicks) on my MS Surface Headphones. I have no other sound cards unfortunately apart on-board Realtek HD ALC295.


(and no additional Windows Audio effects)

Quote:
Do you get random "pull underflow" messages in the log?
https://hastebin.com/iroteqafic.yaml with Beast.
Quote:
Also I only asked if frame rate is still smooth with sound enabled, I didn't ask about sound
EDIT: at least I have noticed fps counter is now very stable even with wasapi sound enabled. (no +-1 jumps anymore)
And that's what I meant when I said it runs "Definitely better WASAPI now: 50fps most of the time" but suffers a few audio clicks (so with audio enabled)
Just to be clear though: I have a few more 49fps drops in WASAPI mode than DSOUND.

Last edited by hexaae; 04 November 2020 at 15:06. Reason: added more info and audio settings
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Old 04 November 2020, 15:09   #43
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Is there some kind of Windows tool to measure audio latency and things like that with different audio devices? Some kind of audio latency benchmark in other words
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Old 07 November 2020, 11:26   #44
Toni Wilen
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I don't think it can be measured without external hardware.

But there is another test: if you run some Amiga program that plays simple sound that repeats forever (for example sine or square wave), does the time between glitches stay the same or is it random?
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Old 07 November 2020, 13:29   #45
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Tried with Octamed8 and synth sound in loop but didn't notice audio glitches: happens only with games and is not cyclical...

3.3.0 is still slightly better than recent 4.5.0b9: 3.3.0 can't notice a single "hiccup", 4.5.0b9 now rarely but sometimes randomly still noticeable with games heavily using parallax scrolling in background. Became a very minor issue now anyway...
"DSOUND: Speakers (Realtek High Definition Audio)" is still the best for me (less chances of audio glitches and gfx hiccups).
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Old 07 November 2020, 16:36   #46
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Toni something funny is happening when in these new versions I enable that VRR display beta setting and black frame inserting - in previous versions I was able to make it quite stable with certain settings, now it is always wonky and there are visible previous frames, differently with double and triple buffering.

@hexaae: it is always worthwhile to check your system with DPC Latency Checker and Latency Mon.
For audio delay there is RTL Utility, also RightMark Audio Analyzer measures latency in calibration mode, and even Audacity has a wiki article on that. You need a loopback though.
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Old 07 November 2020, 17:41   #47
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Originally Posted by rutra80 View Post
@hexaae: it is always worthwhile to check your system with DPC Latency Checker and Latency Mon.
For audio delay there is RTL Utility, also RightMark Audio Analyzer measures latency in calibration mode, and even Audacity has a wiki article on that. You need a loopback though.
...Of course, the point is that I already checked my system with LatencyMon for hours and have no warnings, and these glitches are reproducible only with WinUAE for some reasons due to its emu-complexity Audio emu indeed seems to have a big role in these "sync glitches" anyway: "Audio: Disabled" solves all glitches from latest 4.5.0b9.
All my other emus runs very well BTW without sync issues, so it's not a general problem of my HW/SW cfg...



However the good news is that Toni almost fixed it with latest beta... we're close to the perfect smoothness of 3.3.0 with g-sync (= 99.99% of the time, never seen a single hiccup/micro-lag) but not yet there...

Last edited by hexaae; 07 November 2020 at 18:19.
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Old 07 November 2020, 18:15   #48
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P.S. Small WinUAE issue: with "AUDIO: Disabled" the old WB tool "SYS:Say Hello" (synth Amiga voice) freezes emulation.
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Old 07 November 2020, 18:24   #49
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hexaae View Post
P.S. Small WinUAE issue: with "AUDIO: Disabled" the old WB tool "SYS:Say Hello" (synth Amiga voice) freezes emulation.
It is normal if mode is not "disabled but emulated". It expects audio interrupt and interrupts are difficult to emulate without emulating part of audio hardware.
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Old 07 November 2020, 18:33   #50
Toni Wilen
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To further improve sound, I really need some clues, even if it sounds weird. Just anything that changes the behavior.

For example, does buffer size change the problem? Even if buffer is max (and latency is horrible), does it still happen as randomly as previously?

Did you run octamed in native or RTG mode?

Does CPU speed mode have any effect? cycle-exact vs approximate vs fastest possible?

And so on..
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Old 09 November 2020, 14:22   #51
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I'm trying hard to find something that can clearly affect this issue...
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Old 12 November 2020, 11:06   #52
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Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
For example, does buffer size change the problem? Even if buffer is max (and latency is horrible), does it still happen as randomly as previously?
Even with buffer 10 won't solve random (rare) micro-lags (more visible in AUDIO:WASAPI mode than DSOUND for me), I can't reproduce with old 3.3.0

Quote:
Did you run octamed in native or RTG mode?
Both, didn't change

Quote:
Does CPU speed mode have any effect? cycle-exact vs approximate vs fastest possible?
Have to verify this again but ATM I'd say no change

Last edited by hexaae; 12 November 2020 at 11:27.
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Old 18 November 2020, 18:25   #53
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G-Sync with fastsync forced from Nvidia Control Panel (instead of Application controlled) seems to help and avoids those minor stutterings with >=3.4.0b1. Still strange to me that 3.3.0 works fine without any trick in any condition...
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Old 17 December 2020, 22:07   #54
Toni Wilen
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Just a mostly useless status post: "Final" part of PC ugrade done, monitor updated to Samsung Odyssey G9 (5120x1440@240Hz, old was older variant with max 100Hz/120Hz) and suddenly WinUAE is smooth again. I didn't test if it is 100% smooth or if there are some slightly glitches every few minutes or something like that. But at least I can test this stuff again..

I am not sure what made the difference but one difference is that new monitor is officially "G-Sync compatible". Old wasn't.
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Old 19 December 2020, 00:10   #55
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Great. Now we can in deep test and compare any smoothness issue in g-sync mode

Some think g-sync is good only to reduce input lag in FPS games... but G-Sync for me is mandatory because I love old machines emulators instead , that typically ran at 50Hz or other weird refresh rates (MAME has games running at unusual 55, 57.44, 59.59Hz/fps etc., this means only g-sync/freesync can grant perfect smoothness). Who cares of modern FPS input-lag :-P
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Old 02 January 2021, 23:03   #56
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4.5.0b14 seems to have reintroduced some rare micro-lags (fps most of the time between 49-50) with games like Fantastic Dizzy AGA I forgot up to 4.5.0b12. Also sound has a bit more "crackles" than usual... mmh
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Old 03 January 2021, 16:07   #57
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Originally Posted by hexaae View Post
Also sound has a bit more "crackles" than usual... mmh
Yup, that's what I'm experiencing and reported here: http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...&postcount=386
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Old 03 January 2021, 21:44   #58
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Originally Posted by hexaae View Post
G-Sync for me is mandatory because I love old machines emulators instead , that typically ran at 50Hz or other weird refresh rates (MAME has games running at unusual 55, 57.44, 59.59Hz/fps etc., this means only g-sync/freesync can grant perfect smoothness)
Every monitor I’ve had for the last 10 years with a HDMI connector (non have G-Sync / Free Sync) support 50Hz over HDMI (not usually VGA). I’m sure it’s mandatory. No need for expensive VRR hardware if you’re doing 24Hz, 50Hz, 60Hz or 75Hz over HDMI. Just a graphics card that will output them

Last edited by alexh; 03 January 2021 at 21:49.
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Old 04 January 2021, 00:47   #59
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Originally Posted by alexh View Post
Every monitor I’ve had for the last 10 years with a HDMI connector (non have G-Sync / Free Sync) support 50Hz over HDMI (not usually VGA). I’m sure it’s mandatory. No need for expensive VRR hardware if you’re doing 24Hz, 50Hz, 60Hz or 75Hz over HDMI. Just a graphics card that will output them
...MAME for example uses a lot of unusual refresh rates for its games... I find g-sync/free-sync very practical to always have the perfect sync between screen-gpu with minimum effort, especially on a laptop
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Old 04 January 2021, 20:35   #60
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Originally Posted by alexh View Post
Every monitor I’ve had for the last 10 years with a HDMI connector (non have G-Sync / Free Sync) support 50Hz over HDMI (not usually VGA). I’m sure it’s mandatory. No need for expensive VRR hardware if you’re doing 24Hz, 50Hz, 60Hz or 75Hz over HDMI. Just a graphics card that will output them
I don't think 50 Hz is mandatory in the US, maybe only in Europe? For example, I have a Panasonic LCD TV (US model), a couple years old, that I tested and it doesn't support 50 Hz refresh rate over HDMI.
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