16 January 2020, 16:01 | #121 | |
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16 January 2020, 16:03 | #122 | |
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I'm saying that suggesting games like Genetic Species, Napalm: The Crimson Crisis that require accelerators and oodles of RAM is not a fair comparison. |
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16 January 2020, 16:28 | #123 |
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This Virtual Karting game runs on an unexpanded A1200, can the MD do similar? It uses some pretty ugly dithered texturemapping, but speed is good. You get 50 FPS with a faster accelerator card.
[ Show youtube player ] |
16 January 2020, 16:38 | #124 | ||
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I actually played Zero Tolerance on my Megadrive back in the day. It was Ok. Never knew about Bloodshot, and I tool a peak on youtube, and it doesn't look any more impressive then Zero. However, that Duke Nukem is very cool. Very nice framerate, and it looks like gameplay is very good too. Now, you can't deny that Rise of the Robots is better on A1200? Quote:
If we compare those, then we can add 32x to Sega and do a comparison. Well, that's not a bad extension of discussion... --------------------------- What expanded A1200 could compare with Sega 32x? 030/040...? ... how many ram? |
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16 January 2020, 20:30 | #125 | |
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Well... Amiga devs didn't have exactly the economic strength, the market in every part of the world and the sales figures that Nintendo had on the SNES, making viable to add a chip on every cartridge for just one game (or a ram extension). |
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16 January 2020, 21:33 | #126 | ||
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And we didn't mind, because upgrading has always been an Amiga tradition. The A1000 only came with 256k, so of course the first thing owners did was expand it to 512k. Many (most?) A500 users upgraded to 1MB to run the latest games, and A600 RAM expansions were also very popular. These expansions were standard items that could be installed at time of purchase. Quote:
So when when we ask "A1200 or a SEGA Megadrive - which is better..." the Amiga wins hands down. Not just because of what it could do 'out of the box', but what it can do when expanded. We knew when we bought it that the potential was there, even if some of us didn't make use of it (because there were plenty of awesome games that ran fine a stock A1200). And now, 25 years later, its superiority is obvious. But was the Megadrive ever better than an A1200 for games? I say not. No keyboard or mouse so you couldn't play more sophisticated genres, expensive cartridges that were uneconomic to pirate or hack, no floppy drive to run magazine coverdisks or PD software, and a plethora of boring unoriginal games. Some games on the Megadrive were technically superior to their Amiga equivalents for sure, but moving more tiles around the screen faster doesn't necessarily make a game better. Having too much high-speed action on screen can actually make it worse. Yesterday I installed The Faery Tale Adventure on my accelerated A1200, and was surprised to find that it was less enjoyable to play than on the A500. Why? Because the extra speed made it too slick. Not unplayable, but too much like an arcade game where you don't have time to think. It spoilt the atmosphere of the game. |
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16 January 2020, 21:55 | #127 | |
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Technically, which machine is better for games? ... the answer is in the genre of games? It seems people agree that the Megadrive is better for platformers and shooters where the A1200 is better at strategy/3d based games...which is fine, when you look at it as a whole you can see technically why that is the case. As a platform and in my opinion the A1200 is better because it offers a better all round gaming experience and an open development environment that appealed to the bedroom coder. |
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16 January 2020, 22:51 | #128 |
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16 January 2020, 23:12 | #129 |
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Sure SNES was good, but StarFox with its GSU-1 coprocessor on the game cartridge is not the best example of the SNES's power.
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16 January 2020, 23:33 | #130 |
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I still have my original A500 which I bought back in the day and still love it as along with my ZX Spectrum Toastrack it gave me the greatest fun gaming days ever, however the A1200 felt so empty to me, a fraction of the library the A500 has and came too late, it just didn't give me much joy so I sold it,...now my Megadrive on the other hand is amazing, the sound chip is incredible and there are sooooooooooooooo many games and shmups on it.
So in other words I'd have a megadrive over a A1200 any day!!! Last edited by ZEUSDAZ; 17 January 2020 at 00:00. |
16 January 2020, 23:38 | #131 |
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I must admit that I never had an A1200; I've only experienced it via emulation.
...but purely from a "games" perspective, I agree with a lot of comments here. Most A1200 games are just slightly rehashed A500 games at the end of the day; as it was released too late, and developers didn't really get to sink their teeth into this hardware before Commodore's collapse. Yes there are exclusives like Banshee etc... but there can't be more than 30 exceptional games? I'm talking stock A1200 here. So, I would definitely rather have a Sega Mega Drive or Super Nintendo (which I did, both in fact) as opposed to an A1200 from a "games" perspective... but at the same time I still had my A500. All these were great machines!!! Final point, as most of you know I'm an old school arcade junkie, so really the Sega Mega Drive and Super Nintendo won over the Amiga in this department Last edited by DamienD; 16 January 2020 at 23:48. |
17 January 2020, 08:06 | #132 | ||
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Ignoring the A500 games feels very odd to me in that regard. Quote:
Last edited by roondar; 17 January 2020 at 11:02. |
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17 January 2020, 08:54 | #133 |
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Not taking in consideration A500 games for the A1200 is absolut non sense, especially considering the A1200 isn't just the AGA but had other additions.
Many many A500 non twitch games were vastly improved on the 1200. Faster, smoother, better loading or disk change management, HD playable without needing extra RAM, Hi-res for some etc... Frontier, The Settlers, Dune 2, Indy IV, A-Train etc... In fact all the non twitch games that were correctly coded benefits from the better A1200 specifications (and even some twitch games like MK1&2, Turrican 3, AB Tower Assault...). |
17 January 2020, 09:21 | #134 | |
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If I actually took the time to list them it would probably be less than half that number... Like I mentioned; most are rehashed A500 games with very little improvement. |
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17 January 2020, 10:22 | #135 |
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As I have understood McGeezers initial post, though, he was asking about technical differences between the stock machines (A1200 and MD) and which is superior here, and not about the library or potential upgrades.
This thread is going many places it wasn't intended to go, imo. |
17 January 2020, 10:43 | #136 | |
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Anyway, if we are to look at it on those terms: I'd say the A1200 is either equal or better than the MD in all areas, apart from one. That one area being the number of objects it can display in a frame* before it starts to slow down. You could perhaps argue about the sound chip, but the A1200 can effectively match the MD here with some clever programming or simply using higher quality samples. This includes the number of audio channels playing: I tried out implementing software mixing on the A1200 a while back and it's a surprisingly cheap effect, if you're a bit clever in how you approach it. Edit: The above might not be fully clear. I mean to say that the A1200 is more powerful in many areas, equal in a few and worse in only one. *) To be clear, I'm talking about objects of reasonable sizes you might see in games, such as say 32x32. For smaller objects, the A1200 actually outperforms the MD in terms of numbers of objects per frame. Last edited by roondar; 17 January 2020 at 11:42. |
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17 January 2020, 11:28 | #137 |
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I think audio is the one department any Amiga slays both MD and SNES even with less channels available. No comparison in terms of quality, it's night and day (especially vs the MD), it just takes a good composer and some clever coding.
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17 January 2020, 11:37 | #138 | |
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* = issue as in, you had to spend much more than a Megadrive hardware, and this further fragmented the already limited market; hence, hardly unexpected, most of the developers just targeted the A1200 as an enhanced A500, with AGA and the A1200 vastly bigger expansion capabilities ending up being rarely exploited. :-\ |
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17 January 2020, 12:56 | #139 |
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@roondar
Wouldn't you say that the A1200 outperforms MD at large objects as well? Based on 64 pixels wide/unlimited height hw sprites of AGA? |
17 January 2020, 13:13 | #140 | |
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Back before handheld Amiga emulation was really a thing, my portable fix was with SNES and MD versions which were much lighter on the poor ARM CPUs we had. I was always disappointed with the sounds and music, especially the MD. |
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