CD32 Games Menu frontend... - Page 2

spiff · 05 January 2016, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by earok

At the risk of going against the consensus..

I'd second the grid design if it can be implemented with reasonable performance. The ability to skip whole screens and drill down on demand works great in advance menu/mame.

But what are the problems that need fixing?

AGS is too slow to start -> Anything but basic text will always be slow? Grid runs into the same problem?
AGS isn't modular/configurable -> Screen modes, smaller screenshots, layouts?
AGS is too time consuming to create/update large (whd) collection-> better template management?
AGS has some limitations we can't work around -> screenshots sharing the same palette? Better whdload integration? Maximize available resources and go back up when quitting game?

Kloks · 06 January 2016, 14:35

Is it possible to create something like this?

It looks like a classic Amiga screen and for me it looks really great. Just add a nice mod track and you are fine. Don't know who can create a menu in this style but for me this looks ideal for a simple but nice looking menu where you just have to select your game and nothing more.

Amigajay · 06 January 2016, 15:26

yeah that's quite cool, simple, fast loading (as all cracktros are due to small size) medium text and starfield tick plenty of boxes for me.

Another choice is the CD32 intro waves as used by the Cd32 demo disc, not sure if that's too technical to reproduce?

spudje · 06 January 2016, 16:36

I'm still wondering whether X-Bench wouldn't be a good starting point. It is in that typical cracktro style. If a light version can be created that does not scan for games but simply has a configuration file to read from... ?

Galahad/FLT · 06 January 2016, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kloks

Is it possible to create something like this?

It looks like a classic Amiga screen and for me it looks really great. Just add a nice mod track and you are fine. Don't know who can create a menu in this style but for me this looks ideal for a simple but nice looking menu where you just have to select your game and nothing more.

Possibly have that as the second screen, and have a first screen with alpha tiles so the second screen is easier to navigate?

Kloks · 06 January 2016, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Possibly have that as the second screen, and have a first screen with alpha tiles so the second screen is easier to navigate?

Why not. As long as you can find a way that it feels and look organic with the 2nd screen.

earok · 07 January 2016, 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kloks

Is it possible to create something like this?

It looks like a classic Amiga screen and for me it looks really great. Just add a nice mod track and you are fine. Don't know who can create a menu in this style but for me this looks ideal for a simple but nice looking menu where you just have to select your game and nothing more.

Looks a lot like Gibs' Tiny Launcher

ReadOnlyCat · 03 February 2016, 05:54

If I can add my two cents, if one wants fast access to the game then the most important aspect of the launcher is how the browsing of the games is structured.

Ideally, one would want to reach the game within less than ten button presses, which is doable with a hiearchical structure even with a very large number of games. A flat grid however is essentially a 2 level tree (x * y) so it does not speed up selection that much since for example 50 games require between 0 (best case) and 15 button presses (7x, 8y).

With a tree with 5 choices at each level one can reach 5^5=3125 games in 10 clicks, or 5^3=125 games in 3 clicks which is super efficient compared to a grid.

If a keyboard is available, then obviously a search function is the fastest, but if a joypad is all you have then indexing by publisher, then developer, then game name is probably the best way to go.

Ex:
Psygnosis -> Reflections -> SOTB
Delphine -> Eric Chahi -> Another World

It is likely that some people will not know who the publisher or developers are so one might want to offer different trees for exploration (alphabetical is the obvious one, first level = first letter, etc.).

Please hit me with a metal bat if anything I say does not make sense.

Amigajay · 03 February 2016, 08:18

Yeah i dont think theres too much button pressing difference if you have a grid or a plain list if you can use the shoulder buttons to scroll down a page, the main issue i think is the speed of which the CD32 can read and process this data, the trouble before is people have made these menus on emulators which of course run things smoother and quicker if the options allow, these long menu systems esp with pictures are so slow on the CD32 thats its tedious and annoying scrolling down to the game you want.

If i can get the game i want to load in under a minute of putting the disc in then i think thats quite a good target, the commodore grid discs i.e dangerous streets, wing commander are really quick at loading and getting to the game you want quick (not that i want to play DS quick or at all tbh but you get the point !) thats the most important factor for me.

mombasajoe · 08 February 2016, 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amigajay

First thing it needs to be is quick, im personally not bothered with screenshots, if the drive was fast enough fair enough, but its 93 tech, i say keep it as simple and fast as possible.

I´d like that, too. Plain text but bigger size. I´d like to be able to read the entries without pressing my nose onto the screen (it´s a long distance from the couch to the TV). No Screenshots.

Some years ago something like that worked fine for me:
http://eab.abime.net/attachment.php?...6&d=1329667804

Kloks · 11 February 2016, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by mombasajoe

I´d like that, too. Plain text but bigger size. I´d like to be able to read the entries without pressing my nose onto the screen (it´s a long distance from the couch to the TV). No Screenshots.

Some years ago something like that worked fine for me:
http://eab.abime.net/attachment.php?...6&d=1329667804

If that is really smooth on a real CD32 and the graphics are in 240p (not in 480i or any other resolution that flicker), that is absolutly cool.
I also like the graphic, where you can relly fast see if you need more then a gamepad to play.

Amiga1992 · 11 February 2016, 15:11

Mombasajoe's menu works great and is my favorite compilation menu on CD32.
I don't think UI wise is great for a "unified design" model, but it is proof of concept that a decent menu can be done for CD32 that doesn't get in the way of playing games. It's clearly designed to be used on a CD32, not just any Amiga.

Did you use Blitz to make this, Mombasajoe? I think I am gonna try making my own soon.

jayminer · 11 February 2016, 15:51

Hadn't noticed this thread before, but I thought I'd might write a few words about the menu a friend and I are working on for our CD32-compilation.

We are going a rather simple route, not lots of screenshots, not any information except for game name and icons to show if a game needs keyboard/mouse.

There are a few interesting features though. The first being the possibility to Reboot games without using RAD: or any such solution for games that require as much free memory as possible, the menu writes the "commandline" to be launched to RAM and then reboots, then the first program run in Startup-Sequence looks in RAM and if it finds anything to launch it launches it, otherwise it loads the menu.

The list of games are compiled into the binary for faster loading, and the menu removes the CD32-animation and such stuff so no need for other programs to handle those things.

The menu is very quick to start, and very quick to navigate.

Other than that, it's basically a simple menu with some simple Copper-effects, AHX-music, and it's system-friendly. It uses left/right on the D-pad to scroll a page up/down.

I only found an older screenshot of how it looks, and there will be graphical changes before a final release. Anyway, here's a 'taste' of how it looks.

My friend who codes the menu plans to release the source when it's closer to completion.

Kloks · 11 February 2016, 19:54

Really nice. Just make sure the menu is in 240p and everything should be cool.

jayminer · 11 February 2016, 22:52

I did a quick video to show the speed of our menu.

[ Show youtube player ]

Kloks · 11 February 2016, 22:57

Oh, that is too fast. Nearly no chance to see what happen in the menu :/
What resolution habe the menu?

Amigajay · 11 February 2016, 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayminer

I did a quick video to show the speed of our menu.

[ Show youtube player ]

Looks good! Loads quick too, keep us updated!

jayminer · 12 February 2016, 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kloks

Oh, that is too fast. Nearly no chance to see what happen in the menu :/
What resolution habe the menu?

The video was not to show how the menu looks, it was to show how quick you can launch a game with it.

It's running in 320x256 (or 320x200 on NTSC, it changes resolution accordingly).

ransom1122 · 12 February 2016, 08:59

@Jay, nice work buddy. That looks super quick!! I like the youtube clip..

mombasajoe · 12 February 2016, 22:06

Sorry for answering so late.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

Mombasajoe's menu works great and is my favorite compilation menu on CD32.

Oh

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

Did you use Blitz to make this, Mombasajoe? I think I am gonna try making my own soon.

It´s just written in AMOS prof (dirty, "hard wired" code) but it worked fine for my purposes.

Here is a little video taken from a LED-TV (poor quality but real cd32) to get a first impression. It´s quite simple (nothing special at all!) but fast enough for me:

[ Show youtube player ]

Resolution is....I forgot... but not interlaced
Uses 1-Button-joystick

up/down - highlight entry
left/right - last/next page
fire - select

That´s it

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayminer

I did a quick video to show the speed of our menu.

[ Show youtube player ]

LIKE! Double font size and it would be perfect

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06 January 2016, 14:35	#22
Kloks Registered User Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Germany Posts: 65	Is it possible to create something like this? It looks like a classic Amiga screen and for me it looks really great. Just add a nice mod track and you are fine. Don't know who can create a menu in this style but for me this looks ideal for a simple but nice looking menu where you just have to select your game and nothing more.

06 January 2016, 15:26	#23
Amigajay Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: > Posts: 2,881	yeah that's quite cool, simple, fast loading (as all cracktros are due to small size) medium text and starfield tick plenty of boxes for me. Another choice is the CD32 intro waves as used by the Cd32 demo disc, not sure if that's too technical to reproduce?

06 January 2016, 16:36	#24
spudje Registered User Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,406	I'm still wondering whether X-Bench wouldn't be a good starting point. It is in that typical cracktro style. If a light version can be created that does not scan for games but simply has a configuration file to read from... ?

03 February 2016, 05:54	#28
ReadOnlyCat Code Kitten Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Montreal/Canadia Age: 52 Posts: 1,178	If I can add my two cents, if one wants fast access to the game then the most important aspect of the launcher is how the browsing of the games is structured. Ideally, one would want to reach the game within less than ten button presses, which is doable with a hiearchical structure even with a very large number of games. A flat grid however is essentially a 2 level tree (x * y) so it does not speed up selection that much since for example 50 games require between 0 (best case) and 15 button presses (7x, 8y). With a tree with 5 choices at each level one can reach 5^5=3125 games in 10 clicks, or 5^3=125 games in 3 clicks which is super efficient compared to a grid. If a keyboard is available, then obviously a search function is the fastest, but if a joypad is all you have then indexing by publisher, then developer, then game name is probably the best way to go. Ex: Psygnosis -> Reflections -> SOTB Delphine -> Eric Chahi -> Another World It is likely that some people will not know who the publisher or developers are so one might want to offer different trees for exploration (alphabetical is the obvious one, first level = first letter, etc.). Please hit me with a metal bat if anything I say does not make sense.

03 February 2016, 08:18	#29
Amigajay Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: > Posts: 2,881	Yeah i dont think theres too much button pressing difference if you have a grid or a plain list if you can use the shoulder buttons to scroll down a page, the main issue i think is the speed of which the CD32 can read and process this data, the trouble before is people have made these menus on emulators which of course run things smoother and quicker if the options allow, these long menu systems esp with pictures are so slow on the CD32 thats its tedious and annoying scrolling down to the game you want. If i can get the game i want to load in under a minute of putting the disc in then i think thats quite a good target, the commodore grid discs i.e dangerous streets, wing commander are really quick at loading and getting to the game you want quick (not that i want to play DS quick or at all tbh but you get the point !) thats the most important factor for me.

11 February 2016, 15:11	#32
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	Mombasajoe's menu works great and is my favorite compilation menu on CD32. I don't think UI wise is great for a "unified design" model, but it is proof of concept that a decent menu can be done for CD32 that doesn't get in the way of playing games. It's clearly designed to be used on a CD32, not just any Amiga. Did you use Blitz to make this, Mombasajoe? I think I am gonna try making my own soon.

11 February 2016, 15:51	#33
jayminer Registered User Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Umeå / Sweden Posts: 266	Hadn't noticed this thread before, but I thought I'd might write a few words about the menu a friend and I are working on for our CD32-compilation. We are going a rather simple route, not lots of screenshots, not any information except for game name and icons to show if a game needs keyboard/mouse. There are a few interesting features though. The first being the possibility to Reboot games without using RAD: or any such solution for games that require as much free memory as possible, the menu writes the "commandline" to be launched to RAM and then reboots, then the first program run in Startup-Sequence looks in RAM and if it finds anything to launch it launches it, otherwise it loads the menu. The list of games are compiled into the binary for faster loading, and the menu removes the CD32-animation and such stuff so no need for other programs to handle those things. The menu is very quick to start, and very quick to navigate. Other than that, it's basically a simple menu with some simple Copper-effects, AHX-music, and it's system-friendly. It uses left/right on the D-pad to scroll a page up/down. I only found an older screenshot of how it looks, and there will be graphical changes before a final release. Anyway, here's a 'taste' of how it looks. My friend who codes the menu plans to release the source when it's closer to completion.

11 February 2016, 19:54	#34
Kloks Registered User Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Germany Posts: 65	Really nice. Just make sure the menu is in 240p and everything should be cool.

11 February 2016, 22:52	#35
jayminer Registered User Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Umeå / Sweden Posts: 266	I did a quick video to show the speed of our menu. [ Show youtube player ]

11 February 2016, 22:57	#36
Kloks Registered User Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Germany Posts: 65	Oh, that is too fast. Nearly no chance to see what happen in the menu :/ What resolution habe the menu?

12 February 2016, 08:59	#39
ransom1122 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Omnicorp Age: 45 Posts: 5,813	@Jay, nice work buddy. That looks super quick!! I like the youtube clip..

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