Sonnet 7200 PCI programming

[fitzsteve]

Originally Posted by aeberbach

I think you might have spotted my "Wanted" post

Yeah I saw that after I posted here but there is also one for sale or swap:

http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?99644-OR-SWAP-Sonnet-Crescendo-7200/page2&highlight=Sonnet

Strange as I happened to come across that post earlier today.

[aeberbach]

Oh thanks, I will get in touch with him.

[trixster]

There are still cheap G4 pmc modules on eBay from time to time - there is one on there right now for £70

[aeberbach]

All of the eBays (.au, .com. .uk) tend to have a lot of Sonnet G3 cards but only the one that fits in all the _other_ Macs around at the time. The Macintosh 7200 series had the CPU soldered and can't use these more common cards. The only thing that will work is this one PCI card, and it's honestly dumb looking for it since I could buy any number of complete G4s - graphites, quicksilvers, MDDs - for the cost of just one Sonnect Crescendo 7200. But it would be neat to have.

[Timtheloon]

Originally Posted by aeberbach

All of the eBays (.au, .com. .uk) tend to have a lot of Sonnet G3 cards but only the one that fits in all the _other_ Macs around at the time. The Macintosh 7200 series had the CPU soldered and can't use these more common cards. The only thing that will work is this one PCI card, and it's honestly dumb looking for it since I could buy any number of complete G4s - graphites, quicksilvers, MDDs - for the cost of just one Sonnect Crescendo 7200. But it would be neat to have.

Think you will find trixster is talking about the Apocalypse PMC cards which is one of the alternative PPC cards which will work with the Sonnet.library. Hardest part is finding the pmc to pci carrier

Here is mine getting a memory upgrade from 128mb to 256mb hopefully it all works when completed

[aeberbach]

Sounds like it might be even harder to get everything together. Think I had better find a cheap G4.

[BULI]

Any body tried this PCM to PCI with Apocalipse/ Ragnarok?

ADC-PMC-2-2353 ADC-PMC2 PMC Carrier PCI two PMC slots Full length PCI card

[Hedeon]

I am very suspicious about that PLX PCI6154. Not sure if that is a bridge chip (and if so this card will not work)

BTW, I would stay clear of Sonnets. Overpriced, difficult to get the correct RAM, footprint is large (due to the memory sticks).

The G4 harrier cards have the fastest PCI latency with writes to PCI memory. You see in 2D testing (SDL) with the G4 cards that they are faster than the G3 harrier cards. The G3 harrier cards are faster in 3D (a bit) it seems. They are both MUCH faster than any MPC107 based card (in 2D). Also PPC memory access is much faster on the harrier cards. the Sonnet uses old...DRAM is it?

Strangely enough, the PCI latency of the K1/M1 is in the same range as the MPC107.

Stuff like ScummVM works quite nice on the harrier based cards and struggle on the MPC107 cards.

[gsoravil]

Originally Posted by trixster

Have you followed the installation guide and mmu-configuration guide on the wiki?

https://github.com/Sakura-IT/SonnetAmiga/wiki

Thanks Trixster. I will review. Now that I've read some of this "Sonnet 7200 PCI programming" thread, I'm wondering if my issues are 68K MMU related.

[BULI]

Originally Posted by gsoravil

I am desperate for help. I'd even be willing to pay someone for a working HDD image (with the tools loaded, of course) as a baseline/reference point for me.

Greg

I can send to you my system partition file (of course for free) but settings of MMU should prepare individual for hardware, and software.
But I have two version of system, the second is without MMU libs, but with oxypather and everything works correct

[johnnybarker]

Has anyone yet tried out an adaptec 2940UW scsi card on the mediator? I tested one ages ago and it worked but was pretty slow. I am just wondering if the apocalypse card would be able to take more advantage of it or not? I am sure I have the card still kicking about somewhere and if I find it I will test it but just wondering if someone has already tried it?

[Wrangler]

It won't help, I'm afraid. The driver is still 68k code so data has to traverse the Zorro bus to get to the PPC mem space. Until someone writes a native PPC driver...

[k0x]

Originally Posted by Wrangler

It won't help, I'm afraid. The driver is still 68k code so data has to traverse the Zorro bus to get to the PPC mem space. Until someone writes a native PPC driver...

Bounty?

[gsoravil]

Originally Posted by BULI

I can send to you my system partition file (of course for free) but settings of MMU should prepare individual for hardware, and software.
But I have two version of system, the second is without MMU libs, but with oxypather and everything works correct

Hey Buli, that would be awesome. Anything I can use to help me isolate my issue is a huge help and this would be awesome. Should we PM to iron out the details? Not sure if you have an easy method to provide upload or I should go sign up for some file storage service. Regardless, huge thank you!!!

[Wrangler]

Originally Posted by gsoravil

Hey Buli, that would be awesome. Anything I can use to help me isolate my issue is a huge help and this would be awesome. Should we PM to iron out the details? Not sure if you have an easy method to provide upload or I should go sign up for some file storage service. Regardless, huge thank you!!!

@gsoravil: can you describe your set up more eg A4000D? PSU used? Extra cooling? PCI cards and order? What happens when you follow the set up instructions and try InitPPC without running a startup-sequence? What does pciinfo show?



In my experience, most problems with getting the PPC running properly are fundamental things like bad power, temps too high or using an old version of the library.

[johnnybarker]

Originally Posted by Wrangler

It won't help, I'm afraid. The driver is still 68k code so data has to traverse the Zorro bus to get to the PPC mem space. Until someone writes a native PPC driver...

I wondered that. Would be nice though.

[gsoravil]

Originally Posted by Wrangler

@gsoravil: can you describe your set up more eg A4000D? PSU used? Extra cooling? PCI cards and order? What happens when you follow the set up instructions and try InitPPC without running a startup-sequence? What does pciinfo show?



In my experience, most problems with getting the PPC running properly are fundamental things like bad power, temps too high or using an old version of the library.

Hi Wrangler.

I've often wondered what libraries are depended on. I remember you need a graphics card for a temp ram space to init the PPC. I admit it's been a little while since I worked on this (I spent a month or two banging on it until I was losing hair) so maybe there is an even newer driver I should try (though the driver I used was the newest one at the time and I think I even tried an older one that supported the same hardware).

To answer your Qs about my hardware:

Yes, I have a ton of stuff (some of it purchased just to help me troubleshoot). ATI Radeon 128MB, Voodoo 3 3000 16MB, Voodoo5, Spider II USB, TerraTec sound card. Also I have an 060 adapter and alternate ROMs for my A3640. Stock power supply. I also have both a Killer M1 NIC and a PRPMC8150-1371 with Ramix bridge card.

Nomatter what combination I do with hardware and nomatter what order the cards are in, this is what happens:
- Machine always sees the cards in PCI Info (including either PPC)
- All cards work (obviously I don't put more than one video or PPC at the same time)
- Crash/lockup is always when I try and InitPPC.
- I am 99.9% sure I tried InitPPC without startup sequence but the question does make me second guess myself. I distinctly remember trying only PPC+graphics card and trying to load just the minimum. I was definitely avoiding GUI in most of my efforts. Unfortunately, this is also where my lack of expertise breaks at the seam.

It is a side-bar but I want to be as forthright as possible - my Mediator is a V1 so I had to add 3.3v to the top slot for the M1 card (though this does make it light up and show in pci info). I don't believe this makes any difference except that a V1 normally rules out the M1 card. So technically I never tried the M1 in a different slot but I did try the PMC card in a different slot.

Unlike some others I have read about, I have not found the order of cards on my Mediator to have any causality in what is/isn't picked up or if things do/don't work. (I am aware that it can be the case though, so you are definitely right to ask. I read about that somewhere, which is why I tried the mixed orders that I could.)

I'm thinking either I have driver issue or there is some weird hardware issue I have that is only affecting PPC.

I have not tried a different power supply, though I do get consistent failure behavior. The M1 always either locks up or fails to init. The PMC always locks up. I did use an external source for the 3.3v to drive the M1. I would expect the M1 to work if it's power related given that I'm driving it separate, though I could see how a noisy +5v could cause issues. Though I'm thrown off by the fact that I have no other power supply symptoms (i.e. machine is otherwise stable with other cards loaded).

I don't have another 4000 power supply. Maybe I should order an adapter? I assume someone probably sells an AT or ATX to 4000 power adapter. It would at least rule out that an issue...

Oh, and all the above is exactly the same if I try the 060 with custom roms in place of the 040 and normal roms.

Sorry to write a whole book here.

Honestly, I just want to get this working and join the party. So if you or others think I should hunt down an alternate power supply then I will do that. Any and all help by everyone is HUGELY appreciated by me.

Now that I think about it, I do have a local friend now that has an A4000. Maybe I can borrow his power supply. Unfortunately his motherboards are out for repair (limited battery corrosion).

Greg

[Wrangler]

gsoravil: to begin with, remove all the PCI cards except the Voodoo 3 and the PRPMC cards. These two are the most stable pair. If/when you get these working, you can add the other ones in.

Some users have reported crash/lockup on running InitPPC based on the order of the PCI cards in the slots. This is still not totally understood AFAIK but you need to keep trying those two cards in different combinations of slots (move one card at a time) until you find a combination that works. There is also some suggestion that you might need a PCI card in the final slot from the Mediator logic board to properly terminate the PCI bus.

Try this out using the no startup-sequence test described on the wiki page.

I'd also suggest re-copying the powerpc.library to your set up in case it was corrupted when you installed it. This bit me with Warp3D a while back, even though the file size was correct.

Also: keep the case lid off while doing your testing. Heat - especially from the Voodoo card - will cause spurious crashes. My cards are bad for this especially on a hot day, and it's summer here...

[gsoravil]

Originally Posted by Wrangler

gsoravil: to begin with, remove all the PCI cards except the Voodoo 3 and the PRPMC cards. These two are the most stable pair. If/when you get these working, you can add the other ones in.

Some users have reported crash/lockup on running InitPPC based on the order of the PCI cards in the slots. This is still not totally understood AFAIK but you need to keep trying those two cards in different combinations of slots (move one card at a time) until you find a combination that works. There is also some suggestion that you might need a PCI card in the final slot from the Mediator logic board to properly terminate the PCI bus.

Try this out using the no startup-sequence test described on the wiki page.

I'd also suggest re-copying the powerpc.library to your set up in case it was corrupted when you installed it. This bit me with Warp3D a while back, even though the file size was correct.

Also: keep the case lid off while doing your testing. Heat - especially from the Voodoo card - will cause spurious crashes. My cards are bad for this especially on a hot day, and it's summer here...

Thanks Wrangler. I've done some if not most of those things in the past but this does give me a couple things to try. I should have some time this weekend to run through the list. Fingers crossed.

[fitzsteve]

Just some info for the thread, as some of you know I have a Killer K1 somewhat working in my A1200 with Mediator TX (old drivers)

I just got back my BPPC from upgrade to 330mhz PPC which is comparable to the speed of the Killer K1 (333mhz)

Benchmarked with Quake 1 Timedemo, the Sonnet gets 24.4fps and the Blizzard gets 19.2fps so quite a but quicker, I'm guessing due to the faster memory.

As said; just for info really!