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Old 15 August 2004, 23:42   #1
Feltzkrone
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Interested in these?

I recently bid on these games and got them:

Chuck Yeager's Advanced Flight Trainer 2.0 (with Audio Tape)
Conqueror (Budget Version: Top Shots)
Cubulus
F-19 Stealth Fighter
Kengi (Bonus missing: Keyholder(?) ("Schlüsselanhänger" in German))
Khalaan (Budget Version: Top Shots)
Magic Lines
Sarakon
Thunderhawk AH-73M

As soon as you tell me if my drive is in a good enough mood to survive dumping images (I've already sent you the ctout.txt with an email) I could start dumping any of the disks, I would start with those games not appearing in your DB.

But apart from that:
a) Is a "dump" of the audio tape needed?
b) Which games' boxes/manuals/etc. are needed to be scanned?
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Old 16 August 2004, 09:40   #2
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Nice.

Yeah just do the ones not in the DB unless you think the others may be a different version (language, region, chipset, etc.)

Yes we do need the audio tape. But to do this you need a sound card with isolated audio circuitry (to avoid background hiss), a high quality stereo and a FLAC encoder (preferably) or original WAV.

Scans - I'll have to get back to you, remind me in your next mail.
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Old 16 August 2004, 19:13   #3
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I've got a good quality stereo (at least I think so). It's a Pioneer CT-W606DR Tape Deck connected to a Pioneer A-305R Amplifier and it's a couple of years old. But my sound card in fact isn't a soundcard. It's an onboard codec called ADI AD1980 (Asus P4PE-X board). Shall Dolby Noise Reduction be used? The tape deck supports Type B and Type C.

Would that combination do it? (I don't know what an isolated audio circuitry is...)
By the way: Still got no response to my drive results. I'm now attaching it here, too for whatever purpose.
Attached Files
File Type: txt CTOUT.TXT (1.0 KB, 146 views)
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Old 16 August 2004, 20:22   #4
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Quote:
System Information: Kickstart: 3.0 (39.47, A1200 class)
39.47 ? Either the dumping tool is wrong or you have a really rare Kickstart.
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Old 16 August 2004, 21:12   #5
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Enverex has got the same version.
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Old 17 August 2004, 10:49   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltzkrone
I've got a good quality stereo (at least I think so). It's a Pioneer CT-W606DR Tape Deck connected to a Pioneer A-305R Amplifier and it's a couple of years old.
Unfortunately I don't know enough about this. Look for "audiophile" reviews of stereos, maybe you can find your one... Or maybe more knowledgable CAPS members can answer this...

Quote:
But my sound card in fact isn't a soundcard. It's an onboard codec called ADI AD1980 (Asus P4PE-X board).
Okay, this is probably unlikely to have a separate sound paths, I think you are looking at higher end cards. This is apparently something that until reletively recently was only found in professional cards. Unfortunately I can't seem to find any decent resources on the net about this.

I guess as long as your card has a good signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) it is fine. For example an SNR of 100dB is extremely good. The Creative Audigy card is meant to have a "pretty good" SNR at around 144db (practical not theoretical measurement).

It apparently also usually helps to mute all other sources ("faders") when recording. I'll have to write up a guide one day, but I need to do more research.

Quote:
Shall Dolby Noise Reduction be used? The tape deck supports Type B and Type C.
No. At least, I don't think so. Most resources I have see infer that any processing is best done after digitisation.

Quote:
Would that combination do it? (I don't know what an isolated audio circuitry is...)
Sorry, I didn't mean "circuitry" I meant "paths". It is just where a sound cards takes special action to ensure that the circuitry on the sound card and in the PC does not interfere with the audio dignal too much before it is digitalised.

Quote:
By the way: Still got no response to my drive results. I'm now attaching it here, too for whatever purpose.
Reponse made!
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Old 17 August 2004, 11:14   #7
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... and you already got a response on your response. =)

Quote:
It apparently also usually helps to mute all other sources ("faders") when recording. I'll have to write up a guide one day, but I need to do more research.
Yes, I'm familiar with this. I always got the problem that with mic and cd-rom lines enabled the background noise was terrible.

According to Hexus.net my Analog Devices SoundMAX Cadenza chip/codec/whatever (I don't understand onboard sound exactly) has a signal-to-noise ratio of 96 db.

By the way, I now found this:
Quote:
http://products.consumerguide.com/cp...x.cfm/id/19092
The Pioneer CT-W606DR dual-well cassette deck is not willing to let the digital revolution pass it by. Just slightly more expensive than a standard analog recorder, it uses Pioneer's unique digital signal processing to greatly enhance the signal to noise ratio for recording as well as playback. By converting the analog signal to digital with a 20-bit converter, no analog noise is introduced from the record or replay circuitry. This results in cleaner analog tape recordings. Both transports have auto-reverse, although only one side is capable of recording, and they both have Dolby B and C noise reduction and Dolby HX Pro. Automatic tape selection enhances sonic performance. The relay feature allows for hours of uninterrupted playback. The music search is available for up to 15 tracks. Included in the long list of convenience features are headphone outputs, CD Syncho start, and full logic controls to protect tapes from transport damage.
No review of the amplifier found, though...

Last edited by Feltzkrone; 17 August 2004 at 11:21.
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Old 17 August 2004, 11:44   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltzkrone
Enverex has got the same version.
Does the Workbench show the same Kickstart version ? I know that 39.46 was still a beta, so I guess the dumping tool shows a wrong version number.
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Old 17 August 2004, 14:17   #9
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Workbench does show Kickstart 39.106 in the About box.

... and this is the standard TOSECized kickstart version
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Old 17 August 2004, 14:53   #10
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Indeed, the Audigy 2ZS Pro is really noise free. Mostly thanks to its separate (out of pc) audio hub controller.
Don't even bother with mainboard codecs/soundcards/chips whatever they claim they are utter crap constant hissing, 50hz noise, audible circuitry interference etc.
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Old 17 August 2004, 16:17   #11
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So what? It's a bad quality tape which has to be digitized and I'm asking myself if you could hear any annoying noise if I had said it was an Audigy that I own. =)

I accept the opinion of most audiophiles out there, but if it's about working with a crappy source I simply don't get the point why only highest quality equipment and codecs shall be used. Ofcourse I do respect when rules are set up to ensure great quality preservation (i.e. no hardware-copied disks, black/white manuals in png format etc.) but I think sometimes the point is reached where I personally think it's useless to set up such a high standard.

This is just my opinion, please don't feel attacked or something.
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Old 17 August 2004, 16:28   #12
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The reason is that from a high quality source with more samples, higher resolution etc. you can always work your way downwards to a casual version. It is not possible the other way around and we'll be sorry later on when it should be redone.
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Old 17 August 2004, 16:59   #13
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Okay, I understand the philosophy. But what does it mean for me? Shall I digitze the tape or shouldn't I? And if I shouldn't: Is there somebody in Germany with a high quality equipment willing to receive the tape and digitize it?
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Old 17 August 2004, 17:04   #14
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With a motherboard based soundchip no, but if you can get an ok (for recording) sound card yes.
I think there will be people in Germany who can, but I am not sure.
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Old 17 August 2004, 17:16   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltzkrone
I accept the opinion of most audiophiles out there, but if it's about working with a crappy source I simply don't get the point why only highest quality equipment and codecs shall be used.
The fact that you are working with a crappy source is *exactly* why it is so important. I wouldn't worry too much about it, since there are very few tapes around to do (perhaps 50 for all Amiga games?), we might as well do them as best we can.

I think ultimately, once we have sorted out the details and have somebody who has all the appropriate equipment available (we have had one offer, just need to sort out the details with them) then we can do some nice examples.
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Old 19 August 2004, 10:14   #16
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Ermm, it would be nice to know if the test dump is okay and what scans need to be made asap, because I'm on vacation for this and the next week (= have enough sparetime). I said it would be nice only, so if you have other things to do, it's okay.
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Old 19 August 2004, 11:21   #17
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Yes, the test dump is fine, go ahead dumping the missing stuff
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