The Vampire II has had a GOLD3 core ALPHA released!

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

@Gorf
You think the "trolling crusader", as a moderator called him, is not the problem?

no. And calling him that, does certainly not lead to a more civilized discussion.

Mixing some valid points with deliberate lies is not the problem?

Delibertate lies ... that reminds me of someone else in a more Vampire dedicated forum.
Where is he lying? How can you be sure it is "deliberately"?
You can always correct any information, that is wrong or misleading - that happens all the time on a forum.

But you, being German, can check out the A1K forum. Check out the Vampire threads and you will see that they are way more civil.

Because people don't get offended by criticism that easily?

I gotta give it to you Germans. You are mighty efficient in pinpointing the problem.

Engineers all over the world are good at that - we just got more engineers...

[Lord Aga]

Originally Posted by Gorf

no. And calling him that, does certainly not lead to a more civilized discussion.

You should take that up with the moderator then. I'm not the one who came up with that.

Originally Posted by Gorf

Where is he lying? How can you be sure it is "deliberately"?

You don't have to go very far. Just a couple of pages back:
* interest and enthusiasm for apollo core inside Amiga communities is dwindling

Easy to check. Number of people who already have their Vampires + number of people waiting in line for them are a couple of thousands. Which makes the Vampire the most sought-after product in the Amiga world right now. He knows that very well because he spends every waking hour trying to dig up something on the Vampire, but will still deliberately lie in order to paint a bad picture.
Even the rest of his "points" are just irrelevant gibberish.

Originally Posted by Gorf

Because people don't get offended by criticism that easily?

Nope, try again.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

Even the rest of his "points" are just irrelevant gibberish.

You shouldn't write things like that. It's by such insulting sentences that flame wars begin.
So be a nice guy, and just prove his points are wrong. Considering what you wrote above this is gonna be easy ?

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

@Gorf
You think the "trolling crusader", as a moderator called him, is not the problem?
Mixing some valid points with deliberate lies is not the problem?
Maybe you are right. Who am I to judge.

But you, being German, can check out the A1K forum. Check out the Vampire threads and you will see that they are way more civil. You will also see the reason WHY those threads are way more civil and productive.

I gotta give it to you Germans. You are mighty efficient in pinpointing the problem.

Don't quote when that's not what was said. And for what it's worth kolla has certainly not posted in a manner that he was previously.

I don't think I've seen you or anyone disprove anything he's said to be honest and I guess someone from the team has confirmed his complaints are valid a few posts above.

So stop sticking your oar in and let then sort it out preferably in private.

You are causing more thread pollution with your personal attacks at any rate.

Also remember at the end of the day this is a discussion forum not an advertising platform.

[Lord Aga]

Originally Posted by meynaf

So be a nice guy

No Didn't you read what the moderator said? We shouldn't be so easily offended.

But you are cool, so I'll do the short short version in case you are honestly interested:

All the yappity yap about developers, future Amiga standards, Gunnar's plans, have nothing to do with the Vampire card and the Gold 3 core. The card does what it does. You like it - buy it. You don't like it - don't buy it.

Now tell me why would someone post a bunch of irrelevant crap in every Vampire thread if not for malicious intent of smearing this particular project?

There are other projects with at least as many faults and I don't see him doing that in those threads?

He has an offer from Majsta to get refunded for the cards he hates so much. You wanna guess his answer?

Peace dude

Originally Posted by Ian

Don't quote when that's not what was said.

Sorry man, I'm not making anything up. You have a screenshot on the previous page.

Originally Posted by Ian

I don't think I've seen you or anyone disprove anything he's said to be honest

There is nothing to disprove. All his "points" are personal attacks on Gunnar and the team and none on the card itself.

[Ian]

Where I posted and I quote "a one man trolling crusade", which is not the same a calling him a trolling crusaider as you wrongly quoted. So yeah, you did make it up.

At any rate, I don't understand you at all, you don't own one and you are not affliated with the product, so why are you so offended? trying to get a discount?

[Ian]

Originally Posted by majsta

Yes they are few people who had very bad experience with the team, especially with me. But that's another story, again not related to this topic.

Must say that Jens was right Again, like people suggested you, you should sell your vampire cards. If you have problems selling them I ll buy them.

Finally, someone assisiated with the project that admits it's not been all plain sailing and mistakes have been made.

Originally Posted by majsta

https://i.postimg.cc/vH18TwYz/bnr7489634.png

And you've just ruined it.

Such a shame.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

No Didn't you read what the moderator said? We shouldn't be so easily offended.

Sure, but anyway what you wrote didn't disprove his points at all.

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

But you are cool, so I'll do the short short version in case you are honestly interested:

All the yappity yap about developers, future Amiga standards, Gunnar's plans, have nothing to do with the Vampire card and the Gold 3 core. The card does what it does. You like it - buy it. You don't like it - don't buy it.

Unfortunately it's not that easy.

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

Now tell me why would someone post a bunch of irrelevant crap in every Vampire thread if not for malicious intent of smearing this particular project?

That's perhaps not irrelevant crap, who knows.

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

There are other projects with at least as many faults and I don't see him doing that in those threads?

Maybe it is because these projects don't popup regularly with new ads ?

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

He has an offer from Majsta to get refunded for the cards he hates so much. You wanna guess his answer?

I don't think this has anything to do with hatred.

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

Peace dude

Yep.

[Lord Aga]

Originally Posted by Ian

Where I posted and I quote "a one man trolling crusade", which is not the same a calling him a trolling crusaider as you wrongly quoted. So yeah, you did make it up.

And how do you call a person who performs a "one man trolling crusade"? You wanna argue about English language tricks and semantics just to make me look bad?

Originally Posted by Ian

At any rate, I don't understand you at all, you don't own one and you are not affliated with the product, so why are you so offended? trying to get a discount?

Now, I would have been offended if I hadn't toughened up in the meanwhile

But you are also a cool guy, so I'll be frank.
Because I'm interested in Vampire cards and plan on possibly buying one soon. Like I buy a lot of things and support Amiga hardware and software developers. Now, I can enter all those other threads and inform myself of those other products. I even contribute to some. But when it comes to a Vampire thread, I enter it and see a bunch of crap posts about Gunnar, Appollo team, FPGA emulation, failing project, insane goals, and none about the Vampire card itself. And all those posts always come from the same couple of people. I try to stay out of it, but it very quickly becomes apparent that we're gonna have yet another shitstormpalooza. So I join in.

Now. What do you think the problem is here? As I said to Gorf, maybe you want to consult with the colleagues from A1K?

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

And how do you call a person who performs a "one man trolling crusade"? You wanna argue about English language tricks and semantics just to make me look bad?

OK, you quoted something I did not say, and attempted to use it out of context. It's not semantics, but in response to you attempting to use me to validate your point.

Because I'm interested in Vampire cards and plan on possibly buying one soon. Like I buy a lot of things and support Amiga hardware and software developers. Now, I can enter all those other threads and inform myself of these other products. I even contribute to some. But when it comes to a Vampire thread, I enter it and see a bunch of crap posts about Gunnar, Appollo team, FPGA emulation, failing project, insane goals, and none about the Vampire card itself. And all those posts always come from the same couple of people. I try to stay out of it, but it very quickly becomes apparent that we're gonna have yet another shitstormpalooza. So I join in.

Now. What do you think it's the problem here? As I said to Gorf, maybe you want to consult with the colleagues from A1K?

Firstly, and most importantly, you cannot openly admit that you “join in” the shitstorm and then moan about it happening, in fact this was generally good natured before you participated, now….

It's only crap in your opinion, based on no evidence as you don't have one, or even know if the problems are real. Kolla has two, so you'd think he'd be far better placed to make an informed comment on the subject. All his problems, for all you know, could be completely valid hence the only person really outraged by it is you. Sure others are abusing the reporting system to say please do this in response to what's being said, but they really should resolve the issue with Kolla personally, or stop posting here if it's such a bind getting free advertising.

To be honest, I like the idea of these boards, and if I could ever find my real Amiga it's probably something I would consider as I'm all about the power, but seriously, they aren't dealing with any of Kolla's and other criticisms, I am 100% sure this is not how Kolla started raising his issues either. I guess there was a time when he tried to discuss his issues with the vampire team in an attempt to get them resolved, but as previously mentioned by majsta, several people have had a bad experience with the "team".

It's a basic rule of retail, someone has a bad experience they tell everyone, but what is telling is there are very few people, if any, disagreeing with anything that as been said, that actually owns one and has first hand experience of the product and support. This alone is very telling, and I hope rather than trying to sweep everything under the carpet, and censoring all opinions that aren't "this is great" the team would actually attempt to resolve these matters in private.

If this is something the vampire team, ie not you, would like us to facilitate then I am sure something can be arranged where there will be no noise from others and they can have a frank exchange without people who are not placed to make a comment on the matter.

No one wants to see this in every thread, but without dealing with the cause, as you said earlier, it will continue.

Sadly for you and the vampire team, Kolla and others posting is not the cause, it's the experience that they have had that formed these opinions.

[Lord Aga]

I have a feeling we are kinda talking past each other.
But I do appreciate your input!

No hard feelings on my side.

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

You don't have to go very far. Just a couple of pages back:
* interest and enthusiasm for apollo core inside Amiga communities is dwindling

Easy to check. Number of people who already have their Vampires + number of people waiting in line for them are a couple of thousands.

That is certainly not a way to measure enthusiasm.
So you fail to show, how Kolla is lying or even wrong at this point.
So nether did Kolla prove his point, nor did you prove him wrong.

Even the rest of his "points" are just irrelevant gibberish.

How about trying it the more "german" way and stay on topic and argue soberingly?

[Lord Aga]

Sorry, I've just had an honest talk with a cool mod. I wouldn't want to betray that.

You can go on shitstorming without me, of course

[majsta]

Originally Posted by Ian

Finally, someone assisiated with the project that admits it's not been all plain sailing and mistakes have been made.


And you've just ruined it.

Such a shame.

How to be serious with this when lately I was accused that I signed contract with Microsoft to ruin Amiga with this project. You have no idea what kind of mails I m receiving...
Edit:
It is not constructive to create conspiracy theories in every thread where Apollo-core is mentioned. This is not help. Points and statements mentioned here by some, don't belong to this thread. This thread is opened for GOLD3 Alpha discussion as I understand. So just flash it and see is it any good. That's it.

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by majsta

How to be serious with this when lately I was accused that I signed contract with Microsoft to ruin Amiga with this project. You have no idea what kind of mails I m receiving...

That is a pity, but has nothing to do with the discussion here.

Edit:
It is not constructive to create conspiracy theories in every thread where
Apollo-core is mentioned. This is not help.

I do not see this happening here. This thread has nothing to do with the (stupid) emails you may receive.

Points and statements mentioned here by some, don't belong to this thread. This thread is opened for GOLD3 Alpha discussion as I understand. So just flash it and see is it any good. That's it.

or don't since there is still no standalone or A1200 version ... other than communicated by members of the Apollo team.
(I know that is not your fault!)

So criticizing the announcement policy and the delays is far from off topic - especially since some members of the team made fun of other projects for being delayed...

[desiv]

Originally Posted by majsta

How to be serious with this when lately I was accused that I signed contract with Microsoft to ruin Amiga with this project. .

OK, that is hysterical!!!



I now have this image of a Microsoft board meeting:

Yes, we know about Google, Apple, and Amazon.
Dell is killing us on the 2-in-1 front.
Sony and Nintendo are still right there in the gaming market...
But what we really need to know is...

What are we doing about the Amiga?

[Mr.Flibble]

Originally Posted by Gorf

I do not see this happening here. This thread has nothing to do with the (stupid) emails you may receive.

It happens with every Vampire thread, the same people come out in force every time and start ranting over things which have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

But it's the same people every single time, but for some reason they won't create a new thread to discuss the issues they have with the board/system/team philosophy sensibly.

They just come in and de-rail things every time, then all that happens is the topic gets closed, and that's that. Rinse/repeat.

Moderation suggestion - create a new Vampire discussion thread somewhere and put it under heavy moderation - no personal attacks allowed, no off-topic random arguments, then delete any rants from existing threads which don't concern the topic at hand.

The same crap doesn't need to be pasted in every damned thread.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by majsta

How to be serious with this when lately I was accused that I signed contract with Microsoft to ruin Amiga with this project. You have no idea what kind of mails I m receiving...
Edit:
It is not constructive to create conspiracy theories in every thread where Apollo-core is mentioned. This is not help. Points and statements mentioned here by some, don't belong to this thread. This thread is opened for GOLD3 Alpha discussion as I understand. So just flash it and see is it any good. That's it.

Yeah sorry about that, what can I say my sources gave me incorrect information

joking aside, please resolve your issues with Kolla, you seem like a fairly decent guy. I am not party to what went on, frankly I don't care that much either, but this cannot continue.

Even if the outcome is Kolla still hates the product, if he gets a resolution that is acceptable, then these threads might have a lifespan of more than 3 days.

It is not our place to silence him for his opinions, which do seem pretty valid to be honest, the onus is on you guys to get him to the point he can say, you know what they annoyed me, but now I can let it go.

Aim to win the hearts and minds, not shock and awe cause frankly the open warfare certainly isn't helping your project.

If this really isn't possible please let myself or one of the team know and then we can try and formulate a plan. If you want help, or somewhere to discuss it between yourself then also let us know. While it wouldn't happen over night, a private area could be created for a few weeks, for you to air all greivences with those concerned instead of in a public area such as this.

Again, this might not help but surely peace is worth a chance rather than the more drastic options available to us.

[grond]

Ian, you just don't get it. Kolla felt insulted by Gunnar during an IRC chat and will do anything to harm Gunnar's project. He will not stop. And yes, he does it cleverly enough for you to pass it all as valid opinion. You say it is telling that he mentions some issues with the cards? A four-digit number of Vampires have been sold. I think it is telling that so few owners seem to have the problems with the cards he has.

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by grond

Ian, you just don't get it. Kolla felt insulted by Gunnar during an IRC chat

There he is certainly not alone. Mr "Big Guns" has a habit of doing so....
Actually, while being the main person that made this project come true, he is also probably the worst spokesman for a project anyone can imagine.

and will do anything to harm Gunnar's project. He will not stop.

That is not true. Kolla's critique is valid.
And he personally supported the project by buying two vampires.

And same as Kolla, I do not like the "team leader" of this project, for lying about me and spreading false information about me.
But still I would buy a A3000-version and will probably buy a stand-alone Vampire, if it meets the expectations.

So please do not mix up personal feelings with valid critique!

And yes, he does it cleverly enough for you to pass it all as valid opinion.

simply because it IS!
You, on the other hand, don't explain or justify any of his valid points, but only argue "ad hominem".
That is not helpful at all.

You say it is telling that he mentions some issues with the cards? A four-digit number of Vampires have been sold. I think it is telling that so few owners seem to have the problems with the cards he has.

You may just guessing here.
Can you bring forward any valid statistics?