English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Amiga scene

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 04 July 2019, 03:20   #201
Retro1234
Boo

Retro1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 5150
Posts: 4,372
"However I won't sit back while lies and misconceptions about the Amiga continue to be promulgated."
Retro1234 is offline  
Old 04 July 2019, 03:34   #202
activist
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: here
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by chb View Post
No, A3000+ and A1000+ were equipped with AGA, not AAA. There was never a fully working AAA chipset AFAIK, only some early incomplete revisions. AGA was a quick & dirty stopgap solution, its development in fact started after they began working on AAA. Still, those two would have been very nice machines (esp. the 3000+ with the DSP), and they could have been on the market earlier.
Thanks for clarification, that's correct.
Still AAA did sound really good, powerful for the day:
http://www.amigareport.com/ar210/p1-3.html
If commodore had a plan and resourced Engineering properly am sure it would have made it out instead of AA/AGA stopgap. Imagine the games on that..

Last edited by activist; 04 July 2019 at 11:30.
activist is offline  
Old 04 July 2019, 04:01   #203
turrican3
Moon 1969 = amiga 1985

turrican3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: belgium
Age: 43
Posts: 3,620
I wasn't disappointed at first,
But after a year, iwas still waiting for an aga shocking game like a sotb in 256 colours with everything 2x better than sotb 1 but nothing happened and even more scary, you had good games like second samurai, brian the lion and the difference with the a500 version were too little !!!
But i still in the course because i was waiting for announced incredibles games like ... heu sorry i don't remember the names, you know all dos games around 1993-1994, then commodore f...ed and it was the end. But not for me, it was too late i bought an amiga 4000 and i stay to 2002 something like that, perhaps more.
I was happy with my a4000, browsing internet was very fast and the power of a 060 50mhz combined with a light OS like the workbench did the job.
When i was comparing the speed of this OS vs win 2000 or millenium i was in paradise with a 060, really.
resumed : 1st i was happy 2nd disappointed by the games 3rd happy with a powerfull a4000, what help me is that i had the money at this time to buy an A4000 without that i would have go away for a long time, i think.
turrican3 is offline  
Old 04 July 2019, 04:51   #204
grelbfarlk
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
To be fully compatible, it would have to have run the same software. How do you propose Commodore should have achieved that!?

They could have put an X86 CPU on a board, maybe some local RAM so it had a chance at being fast. Then I don't know put some ISA slots in so you could actually use one of the Amazing ISA VGA and sound cards if you wanted. Even make it like a ... sort of a bridge over to the ISA bus, on a board? Nevermind, that's totally impractical and would never work.
grelbfarlk is offline  
Old 04 July 2019, 05:34   #205
sandruzzo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Italy/Rome
Posts: 1,606
A little bit of "fast ram" would have suffice. Even faster "chip" would have done the job, but Aga. Some fixes on Copper and Blitter would have been like a candy! Come on, full 32bit 14mhz machine in the 1992 would have been not so expensive, and not so bad!
sandruzzo is offline  
Old 04 July 2019, 08:24   #206
Minuous
Coder/webmaster/gamer
Minuous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canberra/Australia
Posts: 1,993
@turrican3:

Sure, they could have had a bridgeboard-like hardware emulation, but that would have added massively to the cost of the machine, for something that would be of use only to certain users. As well as necessitating a different form factor of course.
Minuous is offline  
Old 04 July 2019, 10:40   #207
malko
Ex nihilo nihil

malko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: CH
Posts: 2,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott View Post
[...] But you missed the biggy - Backslash! That's the standard separator for file paths, right? Why did Amiga choose / instead - nobody uses that! [...]
The '/' key was broken on Bill Gates' keyboard, so he used the most similar one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
[...] "Ed", is still to this day, one of the best text editors I have ever used. [...]
+1 (but we should not forget vi on others platforms)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
[...] Arexx is a part of the OS. Which versions of Windows come with Visual Basic? Oh that's right, none.
+1 (since 1990 with AmigaOS2). For the one wanting to compare ARexx with VB, they could also try to compare the disk space used by ARexx and VB... For the fans, there is always VBA .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott View Post
Rexx

Quote:
[...] The Amiga version of Rexx, called ARexx, was included with AmigaOS 2 onwards and was popular for scripting as well as application control. Many Amiga applications have an "ARexx port" built into them which allows control of the application from Rexx. One single Rexx script could even switch between different Rexx ports in order to control several running applications.
From memory, ARexx was implemented on the Amiga following a partnership with IBM. Commodore transferred some technology from AmigaOS (the multi-tasking not to name it) to OS/2* and IBM gave in exchange Rexx. Unfortunately, IBM was never very strong in supporting the software (except maybe the OS400) and gradually abandoned OS/2 despite being better than Windows.

*and as everyone knows that OS/2 was mainly developed by Microsoft at IBM's request, it means that Microsoft had access to the multi-tasking technology of the AmigaOS at that time...
malko is offline  
Old 04 July 2019, 13:52   #208
roondar
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro1234 View Post
"However I won't sit back while lies and misconceptions about the Amiga continue to be promulgated."
He's right you know.

Your posts have been filled with misinformation and falsehoods. Now, I don't know why this is, so don't take this personally. Could be you really do believe all these things (for whatever reason). But that doesn't make them true in any way, nor does it really matter.

What matters is that these systems are very old and a lot of factually incorrect information is spread about them already. As such it's useful to try and provide a more accurate representation of what happened.

---
Note that this is not about the A1200 being perfect, it wasn't. There were compromises and some were not that great. The machine would've really benefited from a 1MB chip/1MB fast split (or alternatively having chip RAM run at CPU speed rather than half of it).

But for me it was such a breath of fresh air.

I liked my A500, but I loved my A1200. It was so much better in many ways - it had enough memory to actually use multitasking all the time, it had a much nicer UI and OS in general, it was nice and fast in comparison to the A500 and expanding it was so much easier and cheaper. Plus, it had easy to add hard disks - which was extremely nice. Now, AGA was a nice improvement that is IMHO underrated (getting 256 colours on screen was a big deal at the time - everybody kinda forgot about that), but the rest of the package is what made me love it.

Moving to the PC after the A1200 sucked. It made me realise all the more just what had been lost with Commodore going bankrupt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malko View Post
From memory, ARexx was implemented on the Amiga following a partnership with IBM. Commodore transferred some technology from AmigaOS (the multi-tasking not to name it) to OS/2* and IBM gave in exchange Rexx. Unfortunately, IBM was never very strong in supporting the software (except maybe the OS400) and gradually abandoned OS/2 despite being better than Windows.
This is most likely an urban myth. Amiga's AREXX was not developed by anyone at Commodore and was already available before Commodore licensed it from the independent developer.

I don't remember his name of the top of my head, but I'm sure someone here knows.

Edit: got it, it was written by William S. Hawes back in 1987 and had nothing to do with IBM. Commodore licensed it from him. Don't know what they actually traded with IBM.

Last edited by roondar; 04 July 2019 at 14:06. Reason: AREXX author added.
roondar is offline  
Old 04 July 2019, 15:07   #209
Retro1234
Boo

Retro1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 5150
Posts: 4,372
I secretly work for Microsoft

The way you two put it Commodore couldn't have done anything else and we're already dead according to you two Commodore couldnt afford anything so that's that, Amiga was dead straight from the oracles posts.

All I said was a bit more support for PC data types and now we're talking about software compatibility with PC? and 5.25" Disks

Sorry I'll go back to using the best OS ever Workbench 1.3 and type all my messages with ED

Last edited by Retro1234; 04 July 2019 at 15:17.
Retro1234 is offline  
Old 04 July 2019, 15:30   #210
Hewitson
Registered User
Hewitson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 37
Posts: 3,393
Quote:
Originally Posted by malko View Post
+1 (but we should not forget vi on others platforms)
vim is far superior to any other text editor on the planet.
Hewitson is offline  
Old 04 July 2019, 15:34   #211
Hewitson
Registered User
Hewitson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 37
Posts: 3,393
I would never argue that WB 1.3 sucked. I would still to this day, despite its shortcomings compared to modern OS's, say that 3.1 is the best operating system ever created.

Absolutely flies even on the slowest Amigas. Fits on 6 double density floppy disks and is probably even smaller than MS-DOS, despite having a fairly sophisticated GUI. Uses almost zero memory, fantastic multitasking capabilities, datatypes, commodities and other cool features, it's just an amazing piece of software.
Hewitson is offline  
Old 04 July 2019, 15:54   #212
demolition
Unregistered User
demolition's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Copenhagen / DK
Age: 39
Posts: 3,976
These threads are like standing in the local market square next to a bench with a group of alcoholics who all have very strong opinions about what is wrong with the world, what the politicians should really be doing etc.. They never seem to realize that their discussion is going nowhere.
demolition is offline  
Old 04 July 2019, 16:41   #213
phx
Natteravn

phx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Herford / Germany
Posts: 1,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro1234 View Post
All I said was a bit more support for PC data types and now we're talking about software compatibility with PC? and 5.25" Disks
Some compatibility extensions wouldn't have hurt, as long as they are implemented non-intrusive to the rest of the OS.

During the 80s and 90s neither PCs were the the leading force in hardware nor Microsoft in software. There was absolutely nothing which I wished to have in my Amiga. There was some key software which made PCs suitable for the office, that's all. On the other hand, I didn't see a single PC in my University, when I left it 1995. We wrote our thesis with LaTeX.

When I think about it, I am happy that the Amiga development stopped at some point and Commodore died. Imagine Amiga would have survived and transformed into another crappy PC. The Amiga community wouldn't even exist!
phx is offline  
Old 04 July 2019, 16:59   #214
Dunny
Registered User

Dunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Scunthorpe/United Kingdom
Posts: 1,328
While the Amiga had pre-emptive multitasking pretty much from the get-go in AmigaOS, Windows didn't get it until Win95. They didn't actually make it stable until the non-corporate versions of NT came out (Win2k, XP).

Win3.11 used cooperative multitasking. Rather than the OS putting the brakes on an application and allowing other apps to take control for a slice of time, Windows 3.11 relied on the applications gracefully allowing other apps to run. So if you had an application that sat there grinding away at some lengthy calculation or somesuch, other apps (including Windows itself) didn't get a look-in; a total freeze up of the system.

If the application caused a segfault or an exception then you would never get your desktop back.

Windows didn't catch up with Workbench/AmigaOS for more than a decade and even then it was bug-ridden right up beyond Windows ME.

Whether or not there were better bundled apps (word, notepad et al) is a completely different matter and substantially nothing to do with the underlying operating system's quality or fitness for purpose.
Dunny is offline  
Old 04 July 2019, 17:22   #215
demolition
Unregistered User
demolition's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Copenhagen / DK
Age: 39
Posts: 3,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
While the Amiga had pre-emptive multitasking pretty much from the get-go in AmigaOS, Windows didn't get it until Win95. They didn't actually make it stable until the non-corporate versions of NT came out (Win2k, XP).
While OS/2 had other issues, I believe it also had proper preemptive multitasking much earlier than Windows?


You could also run NT as a consumer if you wanted something stable with proper multitasking. Since it wasn't targeted consumers, using it for games was uphill, but NT 4.0 was a very nice OS otherwise.
demolition is offline  
Old 04 July 2019, 18:49   #216
mcgeezer
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Sunderland, England
Posts: 1,506
I think what killed off Commodore was they simply didn't have an answer for developers on the rife piracy that was going on, so when the SMS, SNES and Megadrive came along with their cartridge games it must have seemed like a nice clean slate for them as regarding piracy and money to be made so it's no wonder that developers went to those platforms. To copy the games of the consoles Mam's and Dad's had to fork out more money for hardware add-ons like the Super Magic card...but where I lived these things were not well known about.

A platform is only as good as the developers that are willing to support it.

Along with that... a developer has to work much harder to get the same results out of an A1200 than they do to get the same results out of one of those consoles because they have so many of the components baked into the hardware for making 2D games, in the end... gamers compare the Amiga as a games console and don't take into account the other attributes that make the machine what it is.

I wasn't disappointed when I got my A1200, I felt fortunate as in 1992/1993 I was earning £30 a week and still managed to afford it.

They were great times.
mcgeezer is online now  
Old 04 July 2019, 19:14   #217
activist
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: here
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
vim is far superior to any other text editor on the planet.
ha ha ROFL

Last edited by activist; 04 July 2019 at 19:21.
activist is offline  
Old 04 July 2019, 22:47   #218
malko
Ex nihilo nihil

malko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: CH
Posts: 2,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by roondar View Post
[...] This is most likely an urban myth. [...] it was written by William S. Hawes back in 1987 and had nothing to do with IBM. Commodore licensed it from him. Don't know what they actually traded with IBM.
Today, while searching for info about ARexx, I have seen that this topic has been already discussed (but without being resolved) in another EAB thread. I will post my 2 cents there.
malko is offline  
Old 04 July 2019, 22:52   #219
ferrellsl
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Mesa
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
While the Amiga had pre-emptive multitasking pretty much from the get-go in AmigaOS, Windows didn't get it until Win95. They didn't actually make it stable until the non-corporate versions of NT came out (Win2k, XP).

Win3.11 used cooperative multitasking. Rather than the OS putting the brakes on an application and allowing other apps to take control for a slice of time, Windows 3.11 relied on the applications gracefully allowing other apps to run. So if you had an application that sat there grinding away at some lengthy calculation or somesuch, other apps (including Windows itself) didn't get a look-in; a total freeze up of the system.

If the application caused a segfault or an exception then you would never get your desktop back.

Windows didn't catch up with Workbench/AmigaOS for more than a decade and even then it was bug-ridden right up beyond Windows ME.

Whether or not there were better bundled apps (word, notepad et al) is a completely different matter and substantially nothing to do with the underlying operating system's quality or fitness for purpose.
My apologies for blowing your false narrative, but Windows NT 3 had pre-emptive multitasking as early as 1996, along with process separation, memory protection, virtual memory and multi-user capabilities. It was rock solid for office, home desktop, and server use. The Amiga never had any of those features, and it still doesn't, not even under OS4. Being able to run mission critical applications made Windows NT the choice for most corporations. I'm sorry but the Amiga was never a choice for anyone other than gamers who occasionally needed to draft a letter or spin up a spreadsheet or for graphics and video designers. It was unstable as hell and one bad behaving app easily brought down the entire OS. Your claim that Windows wasn't stable until Windows 2000 was released is a bold faced lie. I helped field Windows NT in 1996 across the US Dept. of Defense and we never had any stability problems with NT 3 nor NT 4.

On my Amiga, I recall constant crashes due to memory fragmentation, and when it wasn't crashing, I'd get out of memory errors due to the same issue even though the OS would report several megabytes of free RAM. It was free alright, just not in large enough contiguous chunks to start another app or to keep working the apps I'd already opened and was working in. This did not improve with later versions of the OS either because the kernel was essentially never improved upon.

If AmigaOS was so great then someone needs to explain why it's been relegated to fanatical hobbyists as a play-toy rather than being used to run mission critical applications at the office and elsewhere.
ferrellsl is offline  
Old 04 July 2019, 23:16   #220
nogginthenog
Amigan

 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: London
Posts: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrellsl View Post
If AmigaOS was so great then someone needs to explain why it's been relegated to fanatical hobbyists as a play-toy rather than being used to run mission critical applications at the office and elsewhere.
Funny you should mention mission critical:
http://www.polyphoto.com/upchug/AEcastro.html
nogginthenog is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A1200 RF module removal pics + A1200 chips overview eXeler0 Hardware pics 2 08 March 2017 01:09
Sale - 2 auctions: A1200 mobo + flickerfixer & A1200 tower case w/ kit blakespot MarketPlace 0 27 August 2015 19:50
For Sale - A1200/A1000/IndiAGA MkII/A1200 Trapdoor Ram & Other Goodies! fitzsteve MarketPlace 1 11 December 2012 11:32
Trading A1200 030 acc and A1200 indivision for Amiga stuff 8bitbubsy MarketPlace 17 14 December 2009 22:50
Trade Mac g3 300/400 or A1200 for an A1200 accellerator BiL0 MarketPlace 0 07 June 2006 18:41

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 16:50.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.11166 seconds with 14 queries