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Old 06 February 2013, 00:56   #1
heinzgruber
 
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50 hz 60 hz stuttering?

maby i hallucinating but:
i use win uae windowed and fraps is open. it shows me constant 50 fps. but my computerdisplay has a refresh rate at 60 hz. is it possible that this cause stuttering in games? i played slamtilt (pinball) and felt that is wasn't fluid.
 
Old 06 February 2013, 01:17   #2
demolition
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Yes, it will cause stuttering if the display is running at a different refresh rate than WinUAE. Set your monitor to 50 Hz if possible (or 100 Hz will also work) and enable VSync in WinUAE. Alternatively you could probably set NTSC mode and run stuff in 60 Hz (also with VSync). I haven't tried that, but I see no reason for it not to work.
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Old 06 February 2013, 01:23   #3
FrodeSolheim
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Hi, this is guaranteed to cause some stuttering, as some Amiga frames will be displayed twice. This is unavoidable when the Amiga refresh rate is 50 Hz and the host refresh rate is 60 Hz.

To get smooth scrolling / fluent gameplay with PAL games, you need to run your display @ 50 Hz, and enable vsync so each Amiga frame is displayed exactly once (every 20 ms).
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Old 06 February 2013, 01:28   #4
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no i've activated under display/settings:
native windowed legacy vs, 50/60 hz
rtg windowed low latency vsync

60 hz ntsc
refresh ntsc




now fraps shows me 59 fps. my display runs definitely with 60 hz.

you think, this is correct?


edit:
now the game runs much smoother. but i think there is a framedrop from 59 to 60 hz
 
Old 06 February 2013, 01:32   #5
FrodeSolheim
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Ideally, you should run your display at about 50 Hz for PAL games and about 60 Hz for NTSC games.

If you force vsync / 60 Hz with a PAL game, it will run 20% too fast (and it may not work correctly if you use NTSC mode for a PAL game).

Last edited by FrodeSolheim; 06 February 2013 at 01:44.
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Old 06 February 2013, 09:59   #6
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Using "fps adj" setting or vsync forced refresh rate change won't affect compatibility at all in cycle-exact or approximate speed modes.

Everything is sped up or down by same amount, running program won't see any difference (same as running cycle-exact mode with too slow CPU = FPS can drop greatly, program will run slowly but correctly)

This has already been discussed in other threads but usually only HDMI allows 50Hz (if display is 50Hz capable, which it is if it is HD or "HD ready"), DVI or VGA usually won't directly support 50Hz without tweaking (display driver settings etc..). You may also need to enable 50p in display driver settings manually and finally usually only "HD" resolutions are 50p enabled.

btw, it is impossible to miss frame drops in vsync modes + pinball game
Your PC rate still may be 59Hz, even if it says 60Hz. (There may be option in display driver control panel)
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Old 09 February 2013, 20:50   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Using "fps adj" setting or vsync forced refresh rate change won't affect compatibility at all in cycle-exact or approximate speed modes.
where do i find "fps adj" in win uae?
i've just activatetd under host/display/native windowed legacy vsync
 
Old 10 February 2013, 10:52   #8
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Display panel but it isn't compatible with vsync. Vsync can't be adjusted, vsync means syncing to display refresh rate.
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Old 10 February 2013, 19:52   #9
heinzgruber
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Display panel but it isn't compatible with vsync. Vsync can't be adjusted, vsync means syncing to display refresh rate.
i know what vsync is. but what is legacy vsync and low latency vsync under display settings? can tell me please the best settings in this windows? and i see no option calls "fps adj" there.
 
Old 11 February 2013, 18:03   #10
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FPS.Adj is in bottom of Display panel. (Bad translation dll if it isn't visible?)

Legacy vsync:
+ More compatible.
- High latency (3+ frames).
- Not compatible with fastest possible/JIT modes.
- 100% CPU usage.
- Slow recovery after missed frame.

Low latency vsync:
- Requires more CPU power.
- Requires display driver that has accurate scanline reporting. (For example some drivers report simulated 60Hz even if mode is something else...)
- Dual core CPU or better required.
+ Very low latency, (if "no buffer" buffer setting)
+ Fastest possible/JIT compatible
+ Variable CPU usage
+ Dynamic timing system, can recover from rare missed frames quickly.
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Old 24 February 2013, 17:09   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Using "fps adj" setting or vsync forced refresh rate change won't affect compatibility at all in cycle-exact or approximate speed modes.

Everything is sped up or down by same amount, running program won't see any difference (same as running cycle-exact mode with too slow CPU = FPS can drop greatly, program will run slowly but correctly)

This has already been discussed in other threads but usually only HDMI allows 50Hz (if display is 50Hz capable, which it is if it is HD or "HD ready"), DVI or VGA usually won't directly support 50Hz without tweaking (display driver settings etc..). You may also need to enable 50p in display driver settings manually and finally usually only "HD" resolutions are 50p enabled.

btw, it is impossible to miss frame drops in vsync modes + pinball game
Your PC rate still may be 59Hz, even if it says 60Hz. (There may be option in display driver control panel)
no i got it. thx you.
now im using low latency vsync and everything runs perfect. unfortunately my imac runs only at 59 hz (60 hz is not possible) and my pinball game "slamtilt" is speed up. so the game is much more difficult!
 
Old 25 February 2013, 06:18   #12
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I was going to ask the same question.

I found something.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forum...d.php?t=899218
Quote:
Follow these instructions at your own risk.
Follow them _exactly_ and you should expose refresh rates above the standard ones.

[1.] Download below software and install both.
softMCCS from here http://www.entechtaiwan.com/lib/softmccs.shtm
Moninfo http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm

[2.] Create a working folder for your new driver, eg. "Monitor" on your desktop.

[3.] Run softMCCS
Make sure your monitor is selected in the box at the top left of softMCCS window.
Go File Menu, Save EDID as, Select Raylar EDID from save as type drop down list. Locate the working folder which you created before. Click save.
Close softMCCS.

[4.] Run Moninfo.
In the Monitor Asset Manager window, go File menu, Open.
Select the file you saved before in the "Monitor" folder, open.
*Notice In Display ID's [File] is selected*
Go File menu, create INF. Click Save. (to "Monitor" folder)

[5.] Open the created INF.
You can change the following values to match your monitors maximum resolution;
[MODE1]
HKR,,MaxResolution,,"xxxx,xxxx"

[OVERRIDDEN-EDID.AddReg]
HKR,"MODES\xxxx,xxxx"

Save File.

Well done you should have successfully created your new monitor driver.

[6.] Establish if your monitor is plug and playing or not.
Note* As far as I can work out, it has to be non plug and play for this solution to work.
Right click desktop, Screen Resolution, Advanced settings, Monitor tab.
Note* If the monitor type is not "Non Plug and Play monitor" or similar and you update the driver it probably wont work. *
Note* If you get stuck here, please section [7.] below. *
Click Properties, Driver tab, Update Driver, Browse my computer for driver software.
Let me pick from a list.......
De-select Show compatible hardware tick box.
Click Have Disk...
Click Browse, Open monitor.inf which you created before.
Proceed with driver install.
Restart Windows and hopefully you can enjoy your extra smooth display modes!

[7.] Further help if needed.
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...esh-rates.html
Above url tell you how to mod VGA cable so your monitor doesn't Plug and Play.
You can also ammend the INF for your ICM.

HOPE THIS HELPS!
What I want to do is to be able to choose a 50hz 1680-1050 resolution for my Samsung 206BW monitor. I know it does not support 50hz according to documentation but I remember being able to use it.

Do you think this will work with Windows7 x64? I want to keep using 60hz 1680-1050 for windows and games but make WinUAE use the new 50hz 1680-1050. Is that possible?


....


EDIT: I used a program called CRU found here: http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Th...ity-CRU?page=1 to add another native 1680-1050 resolution which is 50hz. I created an "inf" file using the program and changed my monitor driver to that file.

The thing is Winuae is not working properly for my RTG display. (PAL games and demos are okay). When I start UAE, my Logitech LCD displays 50hz during the booting. When WB screen appears, my Logitech LCD displays 60hz while my monitors OSD displays 50hz and moving mouse and windows is extremely sluggish. (it's the same with non-beta version of WinUAE)

My CPU is i7 3820 3.6ghz and GPU is XFX Ati 7970 Black. So I guess I should be able to use Vsync?


Code:
config_description=AmiKit
config_hardware=true
config_host=true
config_version=2.6.0
config_hardware_path=
config_host_path=
win32.rom_path=roms\
win32.rom_path=roms\
win32.rom_path=roms\
win32.rom_path=roms\
win32.rom_path=roms\
win32.rom_path=roms\
win32.rom_path=roms\
win32.rom_path=roms\
win32.floppy_path=./
win32.hardfile_path=./
; host-specific
win32.middle_mouse=false
win32.logfile=true
win32.map_drives=true
win32.map_drives_auto=true
win32.map_cd_drives=true
win32.map_net_drives=true
win32.map_removable_drives=true
win32.iconified_priority=-1
win32.iconified_nosound=false
win32.iconified_pause=false
win32.ctrl_f11_is_quit=true
win32.midiout_device=0
win32.midiin_device=-1
win32.midiout_device_name=Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth
win32.midiin_device_name=none
win32.rtg_vblank=50
win32.soundcard=0
win32.soundcardname=Primary Sound Driver
win32.kbledmode=0
; common
use_gui=no
use_debugger=false
kickstart_rom_file=F:\AmiKit\WinUAE\roms\a1200.rom
kickstart_rom_file_id=1483A091,KS ROM v3.1 (A1200)
kickstart_ext_rom_file=
flash_file=
cart_file=
rtc_file=
kickshifter=false
ks_write_enabled=false
floppy0=
floppy1=
floppy1type=-1
floppy2=
floppy3=
nr_floppies=1
floppy_speed=800
floppy_volume=33
parallel_on_demand=false
serial_on_demand=false
serial_hardware_ctsrts=true
serial_direct=false
scsi=true
uaeserial=false
sana2=false
sound_output=normal
sound_channels=stereo
sound_stereo_separation=7
sound_stereo_mixing_delay=0
sound_max_buff=32768
sound_frequency=44100
sound_interpol=none
sound_filter=emulated
sound_filter_type=enhanced
sound_volume=0
sound_volume_cd=0
sound_auto=true
sound_stereo_swap_paula=false
sound_stereo_swap_ahi=false
comp_trustbyte=direct
comp_trustword=direct
comp_trustlong=direct
comp_trustnaddr=direct
comp_nf=true
comp_constjump=true
comp_oldsegv=false
comp_flushmode=soft
compfpu=true
fpu_strict=true
comp_midopt=false
comp_lowopt=false
avoid_cmov=false
cachesize=8192
joyport0=mouse
joyport0autofire=none
joyport1=kbd1
joyport1autofire=none
bsdsocket_emu=true
synchronize_clock=true
maprom=0x0
parallel_postscript_emulation=false
parallel_postscript_detection=false
ghostscript_parameters=
parallel_autoflush=2
gfx_display=0
gfx_display_rtg=0
gfx_framerate=1
gfx_width=728
gfx_height=566
gfx_top_windowed=74
gfx_left_windowed=30
gfx_width_windowed=728
gfx_height_windowed=566
gfx_width_fullscreen=native
gfx_height_fullscreen=native
gfx_refreshrate=50
gfx_autoresolution=false
gfx_backbuffers=0
gfx_backbuffers_rtg=2
gfx_vsync=autoswitch
gfx_vsyncmode=busywait
gfx_vsync_picasso=true
gfx_vsyncmode_picasso=busywait
gfx_lores=false
gfx_resolution=hires
gfx_lores_mode=normal
gfx_flickerfixer=false
gfx_linemode=double
gfx_fullscreen_amiga=true
gfx_fullscreen_picasso=true
gfx_center_horizontal=smart
gfx_center_vertical=smart
gfx_colour_mode=32bit
gfx_blacker_than_black=false
gfx_api=directdraw
gfx_filter_keep_aspect=vga
gfx_filter_autoscale=none
gfx_filter_aspect_ratio=-1:-1
immediate_blits=false
ntsc=false
genlock=false
show_leds=true
chipset=aga
chipset_refreshrate=59.825095
displaydata_pal=50.000000,locked,pal
collision_level=playfields
chipset_compatible=Generic
fatgary=0
ramsey=15
fastmem_size=0
a3000mem_size=0
mbresmem_size=0
z3mem_size=128
z3mem_start=0x10000000
bogomem_size=0
gfxcard_size=32
gfxcard_type=ZorroIII
gfxcard_hardware_vblank=false
gfxcard_hardware_sprite=false
chipmem_size=4
cpu_speed=max
cpu_throttle=0.0
cpu_type=68020/68881
cpu_model=68020
fpu_model=68882
cpu_compatible=false
cpu_24bit_addressing=false
cpu_cycle_exact=false
blitter_cycle_exact=false
cycle_exact=false
rtg_nocustom=true
rtg_modes=0x212
log_illegal_mem=false
kbd_lang=us
filesystem2=rw,AK0:AmiKit:F:\AmiKit\AmiKit,100
uaehf0=dir,rw,AK0:AmiKit:F:\AmiKit\AmiKit,100
hardfile2=rw,DH0::ST3300831A 3.03 2020202020202020202020204e333046424e3245,0,0,0,512,0,,uae
uaehf1=hdf,rw,DH0::ST3300831A 3.03 2020202020202020202020204e333046424e3245,0,0,0,512,0,,uae

I edited this line manually and set it to 50. Maybe WinUAE does no change this setting?:
chipset_refreshrate=59.825095

Last edited by ancalimon; 25 February 2013 at 10:54.
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Old 31 July 2013, 01:15   #13
ancalimon
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I think I might have found a bug in WinUAE.

I have created a second 50hz native resolution for my monitor to use with native screenmodes. I'm using the 60hz mode for my RTG. (The settings that can be reached in Expansions Refresh rate). The thing is when my Amikit first boots up, everything is jerky until I change some setting here. (for example changing buffering to triple) Then things being to move smoothish.
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Old 31 July 2013, 13:01   #14
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Attach both log files. As usual
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Old 03 August 2013, 04:30   #15
ancalimon
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Attached the files.

These are from 2.7 beta 5.
Attached Files
File Type: txt winuaebootlog.txt (13.5 KB, 82 views)
File Type: txt winuaelog.txt (30.2 KB, 76 views)
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Old 03 August 2013, 15:15   #16
Toni Wilen
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Log don't show GUI enter/exit "some setting change fix".

It is also possible your RTG vsync mode is set to something unsupported, load your config, check display panel RTG setting (change it to something else, then change it back to confirm it), save config. Load it and test again.
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Old 03 August 2013, 19:30   #17
ancalimon
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I didn't change any setting. Just started Winuae. Let me try again

After Workbench loaded, I pressed F12 and change RTG triple buffering to double buffering. It made pointer move smoothish. Tried switching back to triple buffering but it made everything look narrow horizontally and I think it made WinUAE freeze.

EDIT: I'm now trying the same but no more crashes and the pointer becomes smooth after I change that setting once.

Thise are the settings. I tried loading it and saving it and loading it again and it's 60hz. Changed TB to DB to see if there was any difference and everything is the same:



Attached Files
File Type: txt winuaebootlog.txt (13.6 KB, 69 views)
File Type: txt winuaelog.txt (32.4 KB, 67 views)

Last edited by ancalimon; 03 August 2013 at 19:56.
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Old 05 August 2013, 16:06   #18
ancalimon
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Was this enough? I'm willing to test further if it can help fix this.
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Old 05 August 2013, 16:29   #19
Toni Wilen
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I am not sure.. Quick test: does it work if you set Display panel resolution to something else? (different than your WB setup RTG resolution)
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Old 06 August 2013, 14:16   #20
ancalimon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
I am not sure.. Quick test: does it work if you set Display panel resolution to something else? (different than your WB setup RTG resolution)
I have set my Windows resolution to 1440*900-60hz and started WinUAE (WB is set to 1680*1050-60Hz). To my surprise things are smooth as soon as my Workbench screen loads. So would the fix for this be easy?

Last edited by ancalimon; 06 August 2013 at 14:23.
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