Lion Heart & Colours...

ST Dragon · 21 February 2005, 15:17

OK
How many colours does Lion Heart display on screen?
I know that most A500 games used 32colours on-screen & some like Swiv used 64 Colours in Half Bright mode.

But Lion heart looks awesome. Better than most other AMIGA & cosnoel SNES Games. It looks more like 256 Colours...

It's still weird how come Commodore limited the AMIGA to 32/64HalfBright colours.
Even the PC-Engine can display 256 colours on screen.

OK...
4096 in Ham-mode don't count since very few games could utilized this without great slow downs.

Also what resolution are most A500 games?

Akira · 21 February 2005, 15:43

With clever use of programming techniques, you =perceive= a whackload of colors in Lionheart (and other games). But it's still a 32color video mode, probably.

Normal resolution for Amiga games (PAL Lowres) is 320x256.

alexh · 21 February 2005, 18:02

The Amiga has a palette of 4096 colours. That is (i think) the absolute maximum you can get on the screen simultaneously.

Although the screen mode of six bitplanes (64 colours) is the maximum... you can of course change colour palette every scan line (or more?) so to get the full 4096 colours per frame.

OK so you may not be able to get ANY of the 4096 colours on ANY arbitary pixel but 64 different colours per line is a definate. And with 200+ lines per frame means you'll be able to have 4096 colours per frame easily.

If any ECS/OCS trick says it has more than 4096 colours I would be dubious.

The extra colours in lionheart definately come at some CPU penalty. They definately change the palette over a scan line.

The reason that the PC-Engine can have more colours is simply because it's hardware designers decided it could.

ST Dragon · 22 February 2005, 16:57

One of the reasons I sold A500+ & got A1200.
Pitty it didn't catch up.

Akira · 22 February 2005, 19:00

???

What reason?

alexh · 22 February 2005, 20:34

I think he's talking about AGA screens being 256 colours.

ST Dragon · 23 February 2005, 11:40

Yes.
Body Blows Gallactic AGA
Alien Breed 2 & 3 AGA looked cool
Trolls AGA
Oscar AGA
Its apity Project-X2 never came out for the A1200.
At least it was released on the PSX?

By the way has anybody played T-Zero & Genetic Species?
They need a powerful AGA system to be enjoyed...

petza · 14 August 2006, 19:17

cool i never new the a1200 could have
256 colours on screen i use to have oscar it looked amazing

heres an interview with one of the devs of lionheart
http://www.spriteart.com/interview/nieborg.html

dlfrsilver · 14 August 2006, 19:56

Lionheart push 677 colors on screen on the first level for exemple....

petza · 14 August 2006, 20:10

some guy from another forum wrote this

The classic Amigas were capable of doing many nice tricks (copper chips, etc). For instance Lion Heart (any Amiga with 1 MB) was mostly drawn with using just 32 colors, but with rasters and other software tricks there are often thousands of different colours on screen at once:

petza · 14 August 2006, 20:20

lionheart looks like an aga game
heres some info about thalion they used to be st demo coders

http://www.retrogaming.it/interviste...rik_simon2.htm

mcbpete · 15 August 2006, 01:22

Did Turrican 2 have a clever copper banding track or is my memory playing tricks. In my memory the background was a really smooth gradient but playing it now on WinUAE the background has an obvious banding between the colours..

petza · 15 August 2006, 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcbpete

Did Turrican 2 have a clever copper banding track or is my memory playing tricks. In my memory the background was a really smooth gradient but playing it now on WinUAE the background has an obvious banding between the colours..

the graphics on the real miggy look better than winuae i think its because
monitors are crystal clear the sky looks better on blurry tv's u get free AA with them

but i dont no anything dont listen to me m8

my real name is pete

Ultron · 01 September 2006, 11:33

The reason Lion heart has all those extra colours (i'm not talking about the copper effects used on the sky,that, many games had, Gods, Turrican, etc) was raster effects were used.

You will notice that if you identify the floor tileset, you will see it has a colour gradient as it goes lower, that is raster effects that change the colour of those tiles on the fly. Furthermore, there is one level that has fog, for you to have an idea, even though the hardware techniques are completely different, what Lionheart does, through raster effects, is similar to puting an alpha mapped gradient over the tiles.

In this regard Lionheart threw everything at it - copper effects, raster effects, multi-paralax effects. It looks even better than most AGA games.

Notice also on the mountain backgrounds, the base has a colour gradient from the horizon upwards, the Amiga simply did not have those much colours for such gradients, it's an hardware raster trick.

alexh · 01 September 2006, 16:19

What is it like compared to say Brian the Lion AGA? Heralded as technically the best AGA game?

aldo · 01 September 2006, 18:06

I could never get Lionheart to work with emulation without constant flickering. Anyone know the exact config?

Retro-Nerd · 01 September 2006, 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by aldo

I could never get Lionheart to work with emulation without constant flickering. Anyone know the exact config?

The game isn't working, since the last 1-2 years, without a flickering. I guess Toni changed the chipset timing a bit for other games and broke Lionheart.

aldo · 01 September 2006, 19:35

so it would maybe work with an older winuae?

Retro-Nerd · 01 September 2006, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by aldo

so it would maybe work with an older winuae?

Edit: Forget about it aldo, we meant a different problem.

Toni Wilen · 01 September 2006, 20:58

You mean flickering of water and sky? It also happens on real A500, I don't see any bugs..

21 February 2005, 15:17	#1
ST Dragon Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: home Posts: 171	Lion Heart & Colours... OK How many colours does Lion Heart display on screen? I know that most A500 games used 32colours on-screen & some like Swiv used 64 Colours in Half Bright mode. But Lion heart looks awesome. Better than most other AMIGA & cosnoel SNES Games. It looks more like 256 Colours... It's still weird how come Commodore limited the AMIGA to 32/64HalfBright colours. Even the PC-Engine can display 256 colours on screen. OK... 4096 in Ham-mode don't count since very few games could utilized this without great slow downs. Also what resolution are most A500 games?

21 February 2005, 18:02	#3
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 12,230	The Amiga has a palette of 4096 colours. That is (i think) the absolute maximum you can get on the screen simultaneously. Although the screen mode of six bitplanes (64 colours) is the maximum... you can of course change colour palette every scan line (or more?) so to get the full 4096 colours per frame. OK so you may not be able to get ANY of the 4096 colours on ANY arbitary pixel but 64 different colours per line is a definate. And with 200+ lines per frame means you'll be able to have 4096 colours per frame easily. If any ECS/OCS trick says it has more than 4096 colours I would be dubious. The extra colours in lionheart definately come at some CPU penalty. They definately change the palette over a scan line. The reason that the PC-Engine can have more colours is simply because it's hardware designers decided it could. Last edited by alexh; 21 February 2005 at 18:09.

14 August 2006, 19:17	#8
petza Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK / NEWCASTLE Age: 44 Posts: 230	cool i never new the a1200 could have 256 colours on screen i use to have oscar it looked amazing heres an interview with one of the devs of lionheart http://www.spriteart.com/interview/nieborg.html Last edited by petza; 14 August 2006 at 20:21.

14 August 2006, 20:20	#11
petza Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK / NEWCASTLE Age: 44 Posts: 230	lionheart looks like an aga game heres some info about thalion they used to be st demo coders http://www.retrogaming.it/interviste...rik_simon2.htm Last edited by petza; 14 August 2006 at 20:33.

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21 February 2005, 15:43	#2
Akira Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: New York Posts: 19,265	With clever use of programming techniques, you =perceive= a whackload of colors in Lionheart (and other games). But it's still a 32color video mode, probably. Normal resolution for Amiga games (PAL Lowres) is 320x256.

22 February 2005, 16:57	#4
ST Dragon Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: home Posts: 171	One of the reasons I sold A500+ & got A1200. Pitty it didn't catch up.

22 February 2005, 19:00	#5
Akira Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: New York Posts: 19,265	??? What reason?

22 February 2005, 20:34	#6
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 12,230	I think he's talking about AGA screens being 256 colours.

23 February 2005, 11:40	#7
ST Dragon Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: home Posts: 171	Yes. Body Blows Gallactic AGA Alien Breed 2 & 3 AGA looked cool Trolls AGA Oscar AGA Its apity Project-X2 never came out for the A1200. At least it was released on the PSX? By the way has anybody played T-Zero & Genetic Species? They need a powerful AGA system to be enjoyed...

14 August 2006, 19:56	#9
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 42 Posts: 8,219	Lionheart push 677 colors on screen on the first level for exemple....

14 August 2006, 20:10	#10
petza Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK / NEWCASTLE Age: 44 Posts: 230	some guy from another forum wrote this The classic Amigas were capable of doing many nice tricks (copper chips, etc). For instance Lion Heart (any Amiga with 1 MB) was mostly drawn with using just 32 colors, but with rasters and other software tricks there are often thousands of different colours on screen at once:

15 August 2006, 01:22	#12
mcbpete Zone Friend Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: London, England Age: 37 Posts: 191	Did Turrican 2 have a clever copper banding track or is my memory playing tricks. In my memory the background was a really smooth gradient but playing it now on WinUAE the background has an obvious banding between the colours..

01 September 2006, 11:33	#14
Ultron Something Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Amigaland, Nostalgia Age: 44 Posts: 757	The reason Lion heart has all those extra colours (i'm not talking about the copper effects used on the sky,that, many games had, Gods, Turrican, etc) was raster effects were used. You will notice that if you identify the floor tileset, you will see it has a colour gradient as it goes lower, that is raster effects that change the colour of those tiles on the fly. Furthermore, there is one level that has fog, for you to have an idea, even though the hardware techniques are completely different, what Lionheart does, through raster effects, is similar to puting an alpha mapped gradient over the tiles. In this regard Lionheart threw everything at it - copper effects, raster effects, multi-paralax effects. It looks even better than most AGA games. Notice also on the mountain backgrounds, the base has a colour gradient from the horizon upwards, the Amiga simply did not have those much colours for such gradients, it's an hardware raster trick.

01 September 2006, 16:19	#15
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 12,230	What is it like compared to say Brian the Lion AGA? Heralded as technically the best AGA game?

01 September 2006, 18:06	#16
aldo Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Scotland Posts: 125	I could never get Lionheart to work with emulation without constant flickering. Anyone know the exact config?

01 September 2006, 19:35	#18
aldo Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Scotland Posts: 125	so it would maybe work with an older winuae?

01 September 2006, 20:58	#20
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 44 Posts: 23,335	You mean flickering of water and sky? It also happens on real A500, I don't see any bugs..

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