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Old 05 May 2019, 21:17   #1
blade002
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Amiga Roms Removal?

I have two A1200's, one is my original from '92 and the other I bought about 3 months ago. The Roms of the original machine I replaced about 12 years back with 3.1 Roms but in the process ruined my 3.0 ones, machine works fine with 3.1 though.

I am about to do this process all over again with my 2nd machine, what is by and far the best tool for the job as I know the removal process can be a little bit stubborn at times?


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Old 05 May 2019, 22:01   #2
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flat screwdriver?
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Old 05 May 2019, 22:25   #3
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Small flat screwdriver. Insert in one side and gently twist back and forth till you feel the chip start to lift. Insert in the other end and repeat. Keep going back and forth till the chip pops out.
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Old 05 May 2019, 23:46   #4
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There are specialized tools for that. Search for

"IC Chip Extractor"
at your favorite shop.
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Old 06 May 2019, 12:04   #5
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Looks like this...
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Click image for larger version

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Old 06 May 2019, 14:00   #6
Daedalus
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Nope, that is *not* the correct tool for removing ROMs. It's sold as such, but is only designed and intended for much smaller DIP chips. There's a high risk of the tool slipping off one end of the chip, and due to the high forces involved, this will yank the other end of the chip, bending and possibly ripping off any pins still inserted in the socket. Please, don't use these on any chips you might want to use again and not on any chip with more than 18 or 20 pins.

There are enhanced versions of the pictured image which have a locking screw across the middle. These are a little better, but still not ideal.

The proper tool will look something like this:



You'll pay a lot more for them than the thin bit of bent metal types, but at least they're designed for the job.

In reality, a flat screwdriver as suggested, will work well provided you are careful. I have a wide bladed screwdriver with gently rounded edges for just this purpose. But you *must* ensure that any pressure you exert is against the chip socket and *not* the PCB underneath, otherwise you risk damaging the board. And resist the temptation to lever against other nearby parts. Take your time, keep the chip as level as possible during the process and it will be fine.
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Old 06 May 2019, 14:17   #7
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Using a wooden pencil or another similar item as a fulcrum is a good way to get some extra leverage without damaging the board or the components on it.

If the chip is particularly stuck, adding a little silicone oil to the pins and letting it soak in helps a lot. Needs to be cleaned away afterwards of course, or it will attract dust over time.
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Old 06 May 2019, 14:37   #8
jbilander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
Nope, that is *not* the correct tool for removing ROMs. It's sold as such, but is only designed and intended for much smaller DIP chips.

Ok, thanks, good to know. I have been tempted to buy one, but not any more
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Old 06 May 2019, 16:24   #9
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Also please don't use PLCC pullers for removing DIPs. It's a bit like opening a phillips head screw with a small flat blade driver. Sure, it sorta works, but it is far from ideal and may end up in destruction. :-)
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Old 06 May 2019, 16:30   #10
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On this topic: what do you do if the chip is inserted so there is zero play?
(i.e. I once had a CIA chip break because the chip was inserted so tightly I could not fit a flatbed between the socket and the chip).
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Old 06 May 2019, 17:09   #11
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I try to push down with some force to break any oxidation. Not too much to flex the pcb too far.
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Old 06 May 2019, 17:13   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roondar View Post
On this topic: what do you do if the chip is inserted so there is zero play?
(i.e. I once had a CIA chip break because the chip was inserted so tightly I could not fit a flatbed between the socket and the chip).
A thinner blade I've used a small penknife blade inserted between the chip and the socket, creating enough space between them to get the screwdriver in. It can usually be inserted relatively easily in the middle of the end, then slid to the side near the pins to prise them up slightly. Of course, if there's corrosion or similar involved and the legs are seized, then getting them to budge enough might be difficult and you could end up breaking the socket. The oil suggestion might help here... Mind you, if there's a lot of corrosion, the socket probably needs to be replaced anyway.
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Old 10 May 2019, 18:41   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jotd View Post
flat screwdriver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vypr View Post
Small flat screwdriver. Insert in one side and gently twist back and forth till you feel the chip start to lift. Insert in the other end and repeat. Keep going back and forth till the chip pops out.

That's what I used first time round and it ruined my 3.0 Roms although as careful as I was at the time it looks like I could have taken more care.


Quote:
Originally Posted by R4M View Post
There are specialized tools for that. Search for

"IC Chip Extractor"
at your favorite shop.

I had thought of that before but had heard it was not exactly the best as others have stated here


Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
Nope, that is *not* the correct tool for removing ROMs. It's sold as such, but is only designed and intended for much smaller DIP chips. There's a high risk of the tool slipping off one end of the chip, and due to the high forces involved, this will yank the other end of the chip, bending and possibly ripping off any pins still inserted in the socket. Please, don't use these on any chips you might want to use again and not on any chip with more than 18 or 20 pins.

There are enhanced versions of the pictured image which have a locking screw across the middle. These are a little better, but still not ideal.

The proper tool will look something like this:



You'll pay a lot more for them than the thin bit of bent metal types, but at least they're designed for the job.

In reality, a flat screwdriver as suggested, will work well provided you are careful. I have a wide bladed screwdriver with gently rounded edges for just this purpose. But you *must* ensure that any pressure you exert is against the chip socket and *not* the PCB underneath, otherwise you risk damaging the board. And resist the temptation to lever against other nearby parts. Take your time, keep the chip as level as possible during the process and it will be fine.

I haven't seen that tool before, quite interesting and I'll certainly get one to see if that's the way to go, but the wide blade screwdriver sounds like an idea as well


Quote:
Originally Posted by ajk View Post
Using a wooden pencil or another similar item as a fulcrum is a good way to get some extra leverage without damaging the board or the components on it.

If the chip is particularly stuck, adding a little silicone oil to the pins and letting it soak in helps a lot. Needs to be cleaned away afterwards of course, or it will attract dust over time.

Another good idea, the pencil won't do a thing damage wise, I like it!


The oil is another one!

Last edited by blade002; 10 May 2019 at 19:03.
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Old 10 May 2019, 18:50   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
The proper tool will look something like this:


Got a link to somewhere to buy that online?
I tried the parent site of the pic but got lost in too much data and not knowing exactly what to search for.
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Old 10 May 2019, 19:15   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blade002 View Post
That's what I used first time round and it ruined my 3.0 Roms although as careful as I was at the time it looks like I could have taken more care.
You mustn't have done it correctly. You don't move the screwdriver up and down, you rotate it clockwise/anti-clockwise. With this method, it is virtually impossible to damage the ROM. In my opinion this method is far safer/easier than any of the stupid tools available.
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Old 10 May 2019, 21:36   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthWay View Post
Got a link to somewhere to buy that online?
I tried the parent site of the pic but got lost in too much data and not knowing exactly what to search for.
Sorry, it was just the first image I found and it appears to be a part of a much larger set. I don't have one myself, but we do have a set in work that I've used. Any of the main suppliers (e.g. Mouser, Farnell) should have them...
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Old 12 May 2019, 17:47   #17
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I'm sure this has already been said, but patience is the name of the game here.

Even if the socket loosens up and you know you can lift the ROM quite a bit in one go - you still ought to do a tiny bit each side with a screw driver. Or the ROM absolutely WILL suddenly come up on one side and bend the end pins back enough to snap.

I've gone through two diagROMs this way,

John
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Old 14 May 2019, 20:33   #18
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https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391690936137

Trust me, these are fantastic at removing chips, even the most stubborn 68000 is a breeze. You slip in the long metal one to make a gap and then push in the black plastic tapered point and spin it round (it's like a [] shape with rounded sides) and any chip falls to its knees. Less than £2 and worth ten times the amount in having a happy heart and no damaged chips.
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Old 14 May 2019, 20:50   #19
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I bought a 21 piece kit of spudgers, prys, suction cups etc from China and it's been very handy. About £3.
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Old 14 May 2019, 22:03   #20
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Try searching for "DIP IC extraction tool" on eBay, Amazon, or Google.

I found several listed on Ebay including "OK INDUSTRIES" branded Aluminum Extraction Tools for 24 to 40 pin DIP ICs that match the picture shown.
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