"Pure" platformers?

[Hungry Horace]

Originally Posted by stefcep

Are you that stupid. you push a button to jump. not the d-pad.

Not if i'm using the up-to-jump method, like most amiga games. the 'up' control is one of the 4 directions of the d-pad....

i really wouldnt have thought that needed explaining.


maybe you need to go back and re-read the quote that was being replied to before calling people stupid.

[stefcep]

Originally Posted by Hungry Horace

I happen to think Queen are over-rated crap as well. And I happen to be a trained musician myself! Oh no! I have an opinion!

You have an opinion. That most don't agree with it. An opinion alone doesn't make it a good opinion.

Originally Posted by Hungry Horace

1) you were talking of the "billions" of people who rate mario, now you switch to your arguement being about a handful of reviewers?

Only to counter your argument that its marketing to the ignorant masses that makes some games judged as better.

Originally Posted by Hungry Horace

(2) "professional gaming reviewers" ... lmao. what makes these people more qualified in their opinions than me, you, or anyone else on this board? Oh right, they get paid (inclduing nice little bonuses from Nintendo & friends no doubt) for voicing their opinion

Some may get bonuses. Most do not. I'm talking about a unanimous opinion amongst many multi-format monthly paper mags, daily newspapers, countless internet review sites, all saying the same thing. What makes them more qualified. beacsue if they keep giving good reviews to games that feature bad graphics, have technical flaws, bad game design, their opinions will be disregarded by the gamers, and they would eventully lose their jobs.

Originally Posted by Hungry Horace

Not if i'm using the up-to-jump method, like most amiga games. the 'up' control is one of the 4 directions of the d-pad....

i really wouldnt have thought that needed explaining.


maybe you need to go back and re-read the quote that was being replied to before calling people stupid.

Are you for real???? i am not talking about sticking a joypad into an A1200 and playing a game that has up D-Pad hard coded into the game, as most Amiga games are. I am talking about playing games where the game lets you push a button to jump up. Like SMB. Unlike most Amiga platformers, although you can modify a megadrive/genesis controller to let you do this.

And the same for driving games, with Amiga you have to push up to accelerate, down to decelerate and left and right to turm, all with one wrist action. As opposed to left and right with L thumb, and button down with R thumb to accelerate, thumb off button to de-celerate.

Originally Posted by killergorilla

Have you ever played Street Fighter 2?

We are discussing platformers here..

[Hungry Horace]

Originally Posted by stefcep

You have an opinion. That most don't agree with it. An opinion alone doesn't make it a good opinion.

most people? you just cant stop can you? I bet there are plenty of people who would agree with it, but unless i follow that up with "xxx number of people" it's not a "good" opinion, because you dont agree with it? classic

Only to counter your argument that its marketing to the ignorant masses that makes some games judged as better.

I still havent seen a counter to that argument at all other than "some people agree with me therefore i'm right"

I'm talking about a unanimous opinion amongst many multi-format monthly paper mags, daily newspapers, countless internet review sites, all saying the same thing. What makes them more qualified. beacsue if they keep giving good reviews to games that feature bad graphics, have technical flaws, bad game design, their opinions will be disregarded by the gamers, and they would eventully lose their jobs.

so reviewers are always right then yeah? so how can the same game ever have reviews from 16%-75%?

http://hol.abime.net/1457/review

those reviewers must be crazy risk-takers. either that, or they are subject to writing -opinions- no more valid than anyone elses.

re you for real???? i am not talking about sticking a joypad into an A1200 and playing a game that has up D-Pad hard coded into the game, as most Amiga games are.

yes i am "for real". You had been stating that this was the superior way to play platform games, and pretty much anything else was too hard to control.

Funnily enough, I sometimes play Rainbow Islands on mame, and do you know what? I even assign d-pad up-to-jump on that. and you know what's even more ridiculous? I prefer it. oh no, i must be an idiot as a result.

you clearly dont want to accept that anyone else might think or feel differently to yourself on these matters, so why I am bothering to answer I am not entirely sure.

[pce_gamer]

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Erm, yes I think you did. At least that is what I think your post implied. You could have put a 'I think' (like I did) in your post and that is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. Everybody has his opinion about how a 'perfect' game should look and 'feel'.

I didn't imply that at all. I merely stated that SMB was a great game. And it is mostly do to its tight refined control mechanics. The game would be worse if jump were on the directional pad (and even worse on a stick). But nowhere did I imply that it's the best game ever. I prefer Ninja Gaiden 1/2/3 on NES over the SMB series (though SMB3.. man, that was a great game).

Btw : Using words like 'bias', 'ignorant' and 'fanboyish' lead to the 'deduction' that you aren't really accepting that people could not agree to your point of view

I call like I see it (although maybe I could've used a little more tact). It's one thing to prefer one method over another or even be nostalgic for it, but it's a totally different thing to blindly ignore the obvious or fact (maybe not so obvious to some).

My example is BC Kid. A fine PCE port and a very pure platformer. There is a joystick control with "up" and a pad control with a second button for jump.

Well, both controls works fine. I cannot make a clear preference. It depends on how good they've made the controls for a game. Yes, Mario is a good example for smooth and decent pad control, but i have also played a lot of console games with a bad jump control (delays, inaccurate..). This happens in shitty Amiga platformer too.

Oh, that's totally weird. It's hard picturing playing PC Genjin like that
Yeah, no doubt there are plenty of duds that use traditional arcade/console game play design, but I'm sure they was just as much duds if they used the directional jump method

[Retro-Nerd]

Oh, that's totally weird. It's hard picturing playing PC Genjin like that

No, it isn't weird. Factor 5 made a decent job and improved Bonk, which is much better on the Amiga. Better graphics, better sounds and surpringly better controls. And the joystick control is brilliant here, these guys really know how to programme a good port that's even better than the original.

[pce_gamer]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

No, it isn't weird. Factor 5 made a decent job and improved Bonk, which is much better on the Amiga. Better graphics, better sounds and surpringly better controls. And the joystick control is brilliant here, these guys really know how to programme a good port that's even better than the original.

I watched a longplay of it on youtube. I prefer the music of the original though (a lot of the music doesn't even sound like it's even the same. Sounds like something that belongs in Chuck Rock or something). They also appeared to have built the game around PC Genjin 2 engine, but using the first game's level design. The main character sprite and the last boss sprite are from PC Genjin 2. Also, the super smooth floating spin move is missing (which also missing from PC Genjin 2). Other than that, it looked fantastic.

[Retro-Nerd]

Yes, they used the PC Genjin 2 graphic engine, it suits the Amiga version with all these pastel colors and a better looking player sprite. Well, the sound is better imho, a mix of old PCE tunes and some new Amiga stuff. But the best thing is the gameplay, the controls are a bit smoother. Sadly they never ported part 2 and 3.

Anyway, Dynablaster (Bomber Man) and Parasol Stars are direct PCE ports, pretty good ones too.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by stefcep

Its YOURS that have no substance so you make the pointless remarks along the lines "Its your opinion, its not mine, therefore its not worth discusssing". Well you can end 95% of discussion quickly this way and then have NO discussion.

Yeah right I said 'Let's stop this bullsh*t, it's all pointless' all the time. I DID NOT! I said that pce_gamer aswell as you stated your fecking opinions as if it were facts dammit (which pce_gamer simply made clear with a single post). Nothing more, nothing less. Your 5 million to 1 argument is as hilarious as it can be. Well go on ranting, but now I really think that 'this' discussion is really pointless.

[DH]

It's utter nonsense, and the argument can never be won.

Who's ever heard of a fighter pilot using a pad to fly the plane against a joystick. The quick and accurate joystick control is used because of that fact, and I doubt anybody would ever switch to anything else for accuracy.

My thoughts and conclusion of this thread is for it to be closed, for it is completely pointless unless we can get back on topic, stefcep, and stop banging on about how much better Mario, the SNES and the gamepad etc are. If you want to rant on about it, why don't you start a new thread and leave this one to get back on topic.

[Shoonay]

Originally Posted by DemonHellraiser

Who's ever heard of a fighter pilot using a pad to fly the plane against a joystick. The quick and accurate joystick control is used because of that fact, and I doubt anybody would ever switch to anything else for accuracy.

Well, they did use some kind of touch-pads on Enterprise, but indeed, the OVERWHELMING majority of planes in the world has been using joysticks

I think there's a slight bit of a problem here with understanding what always was the main controller on various systems, for Amiga users it has always been the joystick (stfu CD32 users ), for SNES users it has always been the pad.
It's natural, like... ever heard of anybody on the planet use a steering wheel with a (Polish) bike (ride)?

[stefcep]

Originally Posted by DemonHellraiser

It's utter nonsense, and the argument can never be won.

Who's ever heard of a fighter pilot using a pad to fly the plane against a joystick. The quick and accurate joystick control is used because of that fact, and I doubt anybody would ever switch to anything else for accuracy.

My thoughts and conclusion of this thread is for it to be closed, for it is completely pointless unless we can get back on topic, stefcep, and stop banging on about how much better Mario, the SNES and the gamepad etc are. If you want to rant on about it, why don't you start a new thread and leave this one to get back on topic.

Jet PLAnes????We are talking about playing a platforming video games not being fighter pilots.

here's a list of the people (in addition to me) in this thread alone that have commented SMB and the use of D_pads and button to jump is superior to any Amiga platformer with joystick and up to jump, and they have given explanations,(without any personal attacks like you have):
PCE-gamer
T Hairy bootson
Power Pie 5000
Dastarddly
Andropac
frikilkoo
killergorilla
Boo Boo

But hey. YOU are entitled to your opinion.

[DH]

Doh! I would never of guessed

But hey, you should get back on topic and start a new thread to argue the toss

[frikilokooo]

Originally Posted by frikilokooo

I think the games would have been improved if a second button is available but not to jump,I prefer play Lionheart with only one button ...

[TCD]

@stefcep
I love to see you still fight your 'battle'. Keep it up son You'll get there in the end

[killergorilla]

Originally Posted by stefcep

Jet PLAnes????We are talking about playing a platforming video games not being fighter pilots.

here's a list of the people (in addition to me) in this thread alone that have commented SMB and the use of D_pads and button to jump is superior to any Amiga platformer with joystick and up to jump, and they have given explanations,(without any personal attacks like you have):
PCE-gamer
T Hairy bootson
Power Pie 5000
Dastarddly
Andropac
frikilkoo
killergorilla
Boo Boo

But hey. YOU are entitled to your opinion.

I said SMB games (not all of them) were better than Amiga platformers. I never said D Pads were better than sticks.

I much prefer to play games with a joystick, and have up as jump, but when I do use a joypad I prefer a button as jump so that I don't jump by accident.

You can't beat a good arcade stick.

[PowerPie5000]

Originally Posted by stefcep

Jet PLAnes????We are talking about playing a platforming video games not being fighter pilots.

here's a list of the people (in addition to me) in this thread alone that have commented SMB and the use of D_pads and button to jump is superior to any Amiga platformer with joystick and up to jump, and they have given explanations,(without any personal attacks like you have):
PCE-gamer
T Hairy bootson
Power Pie 5000
Dastarddly
Andropac
frikilkoo
killergorilla
Boo Boo

But hey. YOU are entitled to your opinion.

That is just my personal preference... I would not call it superior! Some people prefer "up" for jump and some don't. I also never stick to using just one control type for all games/consoles.... It varies on what i feel is right for me for a particular game genre although for mixed platform/shooter games such as Turrican i do prefer the old joystick with up as jump but for standard platformers such as mario and sonic (mainly console platformers) etc... I prefer a control pad with a button for jump

[DH]

@KG
Here, Here

@stefcep
Looks like you may of just shot yourself in the foot with that list

[Graham Humphrey]

Whoever added those inflammatory tags to this thread please don't do it again, this is an absolute shocker of a thread from all concerned as it is so let's not stray into that sort of territory too, thanks.

[Retro1234]

I dont even know what all this is about so hope no one gets upset - I havent used a Stick for years -Joysticks have aged very badly and Im very grateful to WHDload authors who have added the second button jump

Peace!

[DH]

Just close this damn thread GH it's too painful