Problem with CompactFlash Adaptor + ClassicWB

20 May 2007, 22:50

When I plug in a CF card into the PCMCIA slot via Adaptor, my Amiga 1200 (2+8MB RAM) crashes (after 3 seconds). I have installed the ClassicWB Full version. Doesn't matter if the drivers are installed or not.

If I change the HD back to the simple Workbench it works perfect. This problem is only if I use this ClassicWB.

Someone has a solution?
Thank you

Zetr0 · 21 May 2007, 01:45

hallo redhair,

Willkommen zu EAB Ich bin sicher, daß Sie es hier mögen.

hmmm i think i need to practice my german more..

I am intrueged that when you use an old workbench it seems not to happen. It is highly possible that classic workbench maybe caching a lot more memory than your standard workbench maybe some idea as to why, but further study would prove otherwise.

okay I honestly believe the crux of your problem is with your memory expansion card. This type of behavour is both typical and indicative from such behavour.

I belive you will find that your memory expansion card is not PCMCIA friendly and as such over writes the memory space reserved for the PCMCIA with 4MB of ram.

This makes subsequent access to the pcmcia address very twitchy at best and most (if not all) of the times that have been reported here it will fail. You can limmit your card to 4MB you should be able to use the PCMCIA port for compact flash or memory, wich ever you choose.

here are some related threads for a good read

using compact flash on an amiga

and here

Classic workbench on Compact Flash

hope this helps

dlfrsilver · 28 May 2007, 19:35

change your accelerator board, bet my pants down you use a M-tec card.

it mess with PCMCIA port interruption.

12 February 2011, 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by redhair

When I plug in a CF card into the PCMCIA slot via Adaptor, my Amiga 1200 (2+8MB RAM) crashes (after 3 seconds). I have installed the ClassicWB Full version. Doesn't matter if the drivers are installed or not.

If I change the HD back to the simple Workbench it works perfect. This problem is only if I use this ClassicWB.

Someone has a solution?
Thank you

redhair/All,
I have the EXACT same issue as redhair with my CF Card. I had WB 3.0 installed and decided to take the plunge with classic WB full. Got it all up and running but this one thing is left that I cant make work. Same deal as it worked fine in WB 3.0 then crashes classic workbench. Is this a memory thing? I have same RAM and setup as redhair as well. Really could use a solution here. Thanks All....!

Bloodwych · 12 February 2011, 13:36

Do you have a memory expansion walldog? If so, is it populated with 8MB and what kind is it? It may have a jumper for 4MB or PCMCIA friendly setting.

If it's nothing to do with that, I'm not sure. Try using the multiboot menu to boot into a standard/minimum Workbench and test games/programs (select "Workbench" in the FULL and above, "Minimum" in the OS35/39/LITE and below):

http://classicwb.abime.net/classicweb/multiboot.htm

12 February 2011, 19:23

Thanks Bloodwych for fast response. BTW I think your efforts and classic workbench are great. It really makes the system look nice and has great features. I caution I'm not an Amiga expert but I have been tinkering for the last 4 years or so. I have an A1200 and A500 with A590side Car. The A1200 has become my primary Amiga and is the one that has Classic WB Full on it. I BELIEVE I have a 68020 with 8mb ram. When classic WB is idle it says at the top 1,970,704 Chip and 6,856,856 Fast... A little history though that may or may not point to problem is that when I had wb 3.0 installed the CF card etc worked fine. The ONLY exception was when I installed WHDLoad. I cannot run WHDLoad games at the same time as the card installed or it hangs. So I would just take the card out and play whdload etc. and only put the card in when needed. Now with the Classic WB install I put it in, see the icon pop up for it on the wb for a sec and the entire system crashes and resets... Ugly Ugly.. Im wondering if this is a memory thing or potentially a CF card problem.. I tried booting "Workbench" from the multiboot and it said I had more ram available but same crash when I pop the card in... Really scratching my head on this one... Thanks for the help!

Bloodwych · 12 February 2011, 20:57

The fact you had to remove the card to make WHDLoad work in your previous standard Workbench points to the fact that you have a memory expansion that is PCMCIA unfriendly. Once you start to hit the RAM harder, like in WHDLoad games, it crashed with the card installed.

The issue, as explained above by Zetro, is that trapdoor fastram expansions (not accelerators) are meant to only add 4MB fastram, as the other 4MB is addressed to the PCMCIA port. Many expansions however add 8MB, by using the PCMCIA ports 4MB address range + the original trapdoor 4MB.

This works great, unless someone tries to add something mem or storage card to the PCMCIA port and you will get a crash when a certain amount of memory is used. ClassicWB is more demanding than a standard Workbench on memory, which is why it won't work.

What is the make of your fastram expansion? You may have a jumper on it you can move to make it PCMCIA friendly for when you need to use the card. Or perhaps it had software to limit its mem to 4MB temporarily. If not, it's a case of using the multiboot menu and startup sequences provided to create a very basic Workbench you can use to access the card, like you did before.

13 February 2011, 00:42

Thanks again Bloodwyche. I think you are correct and its just a matter of classic workbench taking more ram than my machine can handle when the cf is installed. I have a temporary work around. I am able to boot off the floppy that came from amikit (ADAPCMCFL Disk) which then asks for WB 3.0 disk. It boots into 3.0 off the floppy and then I have no problem accessing the card etc. When done, Ill just yank the disk and reboot to classic WB. This is not the ideal scenario obviously. Is there a way to tell classic WB to boot in a predetermined method so that I can just stick the card in and re-boot how I want? Is this what the Multiboot utility is for? If so, how do you set that up?

The other thing I was thinking is if you can install wb 3.0 right to the compact flash card, change the boot sequence to look for the CF 1st. So.. if the CF card is in, it will boot to wb 3.0 and I can get right to business?

I really appreciate everyone's comments on the forum and patience for someone thats not an expert. I wish people over here in the U.S. where up on Amiga like you guys/gals are. Thanks All!

fitzsteve · 13 February 2011, 00:49

@Walldog,

What make Ram Expansion do you have?

If it has a Jumper to disable half the Ram thus making it PCMCIA compatible you can fit a toggle switch and then just disable disable half the Ram each time you want to transfer files.

Simples.

Steve.

13 February 2011, 01:33

Not sure what I got Fitz.. In the diagnostics screen it says Microbotics.... What your describing sounds good but the surgery required sounds complicated... When I boot off the floppy it actually comes to a screen that talks about the 4mb issue and it starts a patch to adjust for that. Wonder if there is a software option to make this easier

20 May 2007, 22:50	#1
redhair Posts: n/a	Problem with CompactFlash Adaptor + ClassicWB When I plug in a CF card into the PCMCIA slot via Adaptor, my Amiga 1200 (2+8MB RAM) crashes (after 3 seconds). I have installed the ClassicWB Full version. Doesn't matter if the drivers are installed or not. If I change the HD back to the simple Workbench it works perfect. This problem is only if I use this ClassicWB. Someone has a solution? Thank you

12 February 2011, 19:23	#6
walldog Posts: n/a	Same problem as redhair Thanks Bloodwych for fast response. BTW I think your efforts and classic workbench are great. It really makes the system look nice and has great features. I caution I'm not an Amiga expert but I have been tinkering for the last 4 years or so. I have an A1200 and A500 with A590side Car. The A1200 has become my primary Amiga and is the one that has Classic WB Full on it. I BELIEVE I have a 68020 with 8mb ram. When classic WB is idle it says at the top 1,970,704 Chip and 6,856,856 Fast... A little history though that may or may not point to problem is that when I had wb 3.0 installed the CF card etc worked fine. The ONLY exception was when I installed WHDLoad. I cannot run WHDLoad games at the same time as the card installed or it hangs. So I would just take the card out and play whdload etc. and only put the card in when needed. Now with the Classic WB install I put it in, see the icon pop up for it on the wb for a sec and the entire system crashes and resets... Ugly Ugly.. Im wondering if this is a memory thing or potentially a CF card problem.. I tried booting "Workbench" from the multiboot and it said I had more ram available but same crash when I pop the card in... Really scratching my head on this one... Thanks for the help!

13 February 2011, 00:42	#8
walldog Posts: n/a	Floppy disk Same problem as redhair Thanks again Bloodwyche. I think you are correct and its just a matter of classic workbench taking more ram than my machine can handle when the cf is installed. I have a temporary work around. I am able to boot off the floppy that came from amikit (ADAPCMCFL Disk) which then asks for WB 3.0 disk. It boots into 3.0 off the floppy and then I have no problem accessing the card etc. When done, Ill just yank the disk and reboot to classic WB. This is not the ideal scenario obviously. Is there a way to tell classic WB to boot in a predetermined method so that I can just stick the card in and re-boot how I want? Is this what the Multiboot utility is for? If so, how do you set that up? The other thing I was thinking is if you can install wb 3.0 right to the compact flash card, change the boot sequence to look for the CF 1st. So.. if the CF card is in, it will boot to wb 3.0 and I can get right to business? I really appreciate everyone's comments on the forum and patience for someone thats not an expert. I wish people over here in the U.S. where up on Amiga like you guys/gals are. Thanks All!

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21 May 2007, 01:45	#2
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	hallo redhair, Willkommen zu EAB Ich bin sicher, daß Sie es hier mögen. hmmm i think i need to practice my german more.. I am intrueged that when you use an old workbench it seems not to happen. It is highly possible that classic workbench maybe caching a lot more memory than your standard workbench maybe some idea as to why, but further study would prove otherwise. okay I honestly believe the crux of your problem is with your memory expansion card. This type of behavour is both typical and indicative from such behavour. I belive you will find that your memory expansion card is not PCMCIA friendly and as such over writes the memory space reserved for the PCMCIA with 4MB of ram. This makes subsequent access to the pcmcia address very twitchy at best and most (if not all) of the times that have been reported here it will fail. You can limmit your card to 4MB you should be able to use the PCMCIA port for compact flash or memory, wich ever you choose. here are some related threads for a good read using compact flash on an amiga and here Classic workbench on Compact Flash hope this helps

28 May 2007, 19:35	#3
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,424	change your accelerator board, bet my pants down you use a M-tec card. it mess with PCMCIA port interruption.

12 February 2011, 13:36	#5
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	Do you have a memory expansion walldog? If so, is it populated with 8MB and what kind is it? It may have a jumper for 4MB or PCMCIA friendly setting. If it's nothing to do with that, I'm not sure. Try using the multiboot menu to boot into a standard/minimum Workbench and test games/programs (select "Workbench" in the FULL and above, "Minimum" in the OS35/39/LITE and below): http://classicwb.abime.net/classicweb/multiboot.htm

12 February 2011, 20:57	#7
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	The fact you had to remove the card to make WHDLoad work in your previous standard Workbench points to the fact that you have a memory expansion that is PCMCIA unfriendly. Once you start to hit the RAM harder, like in WHDLoad games, it crashed with the card installed. The issue, as explained above by Zetro, is that trapdoor fastram expansions (not accelerators) are meant to only add 4MB fastram, as the other 4MB is addressed to the PCMCIA port. Many expansions however add 8MB, by using the PCMCIA ports 4MB address range + the original trapdoor 4MB. This works great, unless someone tries to add something mem or storage card to the PCMCIA port and you will get a crash when a certain amount of memory is used. ClassicWB is more demanding than a standard Workbench on memory, which is why it won't work. What is the make of your fastram expansion? You may have a jumper on it you can move to make it PCMCIA friendly for when you need to use the card. Or perhaps it had software to limit its mem to 4MB temporarily. If not, it's a case of using the multiboot menu and startup sequences provided to create a very basic Workbench you can use to access the card, like you did before.

13 February 2011, 00:49	#9
fitzsteve Professional slacker! Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kent, UK Age: 44 Posts: 6,683	@Walldog, What make Ram Expansion do you have? If it has a Jumper to disable half the Ram thus making it PCMCIA compatible you can fit a toggle switch and then just disable disable half the Ram each time you want to transfer files. Simples. Steve.

13 February 2011, 01:33	#10
walldog Posts: n/a	Not sure what I got Fitz.. In the diagnostics screen it says Microbotics.... What your describing sounds good but the surgery required sounds complicated... When I boot off the floppy it actually comes to a screen that talks about the 4mb issue and it starts a patch to adjust for that. Wonder if there is a software option to make this easier

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