English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Coders > Coders. General

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 15 June 2019, 15:47   #101
Shaytan
Registered User

Shaytan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Italy
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
Wow. That music is a real embarassment. Personally, if I had have been the composer, I would have used a set of decent quality instruments and used these same instruments on every song in order to save disk space.

The result would have been far less disk space used, shorter loading times, and far higher quality music. An absolute no brainer.
Judging from the video it is what the composer did. It's one module with 25 sub songs sharing the same instruments.
I think he used only 3 channels so the 4th one could be used for sfx.

IMHO the result is pretty good, definetly better than the sf2's amiga version
Shaytan is offline  
Old 15 June 2019, 15:49   #102
Retro1234
Boo

Retro1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 5150
Posts: 4,352
Check out Fightin' Spirit or Shadow Fighter.

Street Fighter 2 World Warriors isn't that bad but World Warriors was never that good game abyway only once Turbo came out was SF2 really any good.

Seems strange it's only two large Sprites but probably quite a lot of frames so memory hungry unless you broke then into pieces so even more work, obviously not that easy or someone would have done it already.

Plus one,two and six button support etc but Street Fighter is all about the game play, SSF2 plays nice just shame about the graphics.

If someone made a one level playable demo that played good had good graphics nice large Bobs that would probably be acceptable as proof of concept.

Have to meet all points that would be regarded as a "Good Port" and work on 68000 1mb

Last edited by Retro1234; 16 June 2019 at 09:50.
Retro1234 is offline  
Old 15 June 2019, 20:25   #103
saimon69
J.M.D - Bedroom Musician

 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: los angeles,ca
Posts: 1,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaytan View Post
Judging from the video it is what the composer did. It's one module with 25 sub songs sharing the same instruments.
I think he used only 3 channels so the 4th one could be used for sfx.

IMHO the result is pretty good, definetly better than the sf2's amiga version
Yeah, if you go and check Martin Iveson in-game samples they are not that better, i guess is how you use it that makes the difference (i would have used a better bass btw)
saimon69 is offline  
Old 15 June 2019, 21:05   #104
Rochabian
The Big White Cat
Rochabian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: France
Age: 40
Posts: 495
The graphics & sound port could be better today, but the gameplay is a hard stuff to achieve.

So many graphics demos without a gameplay and that is the hearth of the game.

Think about SSF2 Turbo, nice screenshots, very good port visually but that's all. Everything else is crap.

I think it can be done with Aga, fastram & 6 button pad (CD32 pad) or the gameplay will be poor.

I think we need the X68000 port source code to get something right. No one can do something modifying the actual Amiga/PC versions.

It's a well known wish from amiga users, but excepts a very good coder that is able to catch the original gameplay, it will be crap
Rochabian is offline  
Old 15 June 2019, 21:37   #105
dlfrsilver
CaptainM68K-SPS France
dlfrsilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melun nearby Paris/France
Age: 42
Posts: 8,163
Send a message via MSN to dlfrsilver
like trying to hack the current X68000 SSF2 files ?

I had a small chat with hiroaki kondo, one of the capcom sound designer.

He told me that the X68000 was used to make almost all the Capcom CPS1 games.
dlfrsilver is offline  
Old 15 June 2019, 23:56   #106
Retro1234
Boo

Retro1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 5150
Posts: 4,352
I don't think you would need original code nowadays to capture gameplay, you could setup a Megadrive emulation on one PC and Winuae on another PC controlled by the same wireless controller simultaneously and capture gameplay like that.
or just capture gamepad inputs and record to Snes/MD/mame/x68000 emulator and recreate.

not useful for AI doh.
you could still use it to recreate the AI if you used a savestate under MD emulation and played back controller inputs and your code was creating the same AI you would know you were on the write track but a bit tedious but should be fairly accurate.

Last edited by Retro1234; 16 June 2019 at 00:14.
Retro1234 is offline  
Old 16 June 2019, 01:11   #107
d4rk3lf
Registered User

d4rk3lf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Novi Sad, Serbia
Posts: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochabian View Post
The graphics & sound port could be better today, but the gameplay is a hard stuff to achieve.
I think a huge step to a better gameplay would be just increasing game speed, and even if you haven't touch anything, overall feel would be much better.

Here I made some comparison video, where I tried to adjust Winuae to have similar speed of SF2 as the Arcade.
To tell you the truth, it really felt a lot better.

[ Show youtube player ]

Now, I know that this isn't enough, and real adjusting would probably need redrawing some of the poses, and taking care of the timing.
But it's not that impossible.

So, I really think that A500 1MB can pull this up pretty successfully, with some smart compromises.
d4rk3lf is offline  
Old 16 June 2019, 09:58   #108
Retro1234
Boo

Retro1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 5150
Posts: 4,352
In post 102 I meant World Warriors Arcade was never that good game it wasn't until the official Rainbow edition - Turbo came out that I think the game was good.
Retro1234 is offline  
Old 16 June 2019, 14:28   #109
Solo Kazuki
Registered User
Solo Kazuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Poland
Posts: 605
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4rk3lf View Post
I think a huge step to a better gameplay would be just increasing game speed, and even if you haven't touch anything, overall feel would be much better.

Here I made some comparison video, where I tried to adjust Winuae to have similar speed of SF2 as the Arcade.
To tell you the truth, it really felt a lot better.

[ Show youtube player ]

Now, I know that this isn't enough, and real adjusting would probably need redrawing some of the poses, and taking care of the timing.
But it's not that impossible.

So, I really think that A500 1MB can pull this up pretty successfully, with some smart compromises.
Street Fighter II is faster on A1200, no need to use WinUAE nor modyfing existing game.

But it's only faster version of not too good port.
Solo Kazuki is offline  
Old 16 June 2019, 15:09   #110
d4rk3lf
Registered User

d4rk3lf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Novi Sad, Serbia
Posts: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solo Kazuki View Post
Street Fighter II is faster on A1200, no need to use WinUAE nor modyfing existing game.

But it's only faster version of not too good port.
Yeah, I know.
But even on A1200, it's a pretty much slower then it should be.
I've tried here to make as accurate speed to arcade, as I could.

I repeat, this is not improving gameplay, but still, even only this change, improves feel by 30-40% overall, and it can serve as a base what else is wrong in this port apart from the (lack of) speed.

Edit:
After watching Snes and Amiga port now, I think the biggest Amiga issue is framerate of the sprite. I don't know what is technical term, but when the Snes sprite jump, it does it in a very smooth way, while Amiga sprite jump looks like it skipped every 3-4 frames of redrawing.

Last edited by d4rk3lf; 16 June 2019 at 15:18.
d4rk3lf is offline  
Old 16 June 2019, 15:17   #111
Retro1234
Boo

Retro1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 5150
Posts: 4,352
it definitely got the big Sprites(Bobs) and the graphics are acceptable

You can find rips of the graphics on Codetappers web page
http://codetapper.com/amiga/rips/street-fighter-2/

as you can see the sprites are split into bits thjs would save quite a bit of memory.
Depending how many frames are missing someone might he able to reuse them for a new port

and are the sonic booms bobs or sprites?

I wonder if SSF2 or SSF2T also used this method?
Retro1234 is offline  
Old 16 June 2019, 15:21   #112
sandruzzo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Italy/Rome
Posts: 1,496
Besides what we think, I think, they did a great job!
sandruzzo is offline  
Old 16 June 2019, 15:28   #113
Retro1234
Boo

Retro1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 5150
Posts: 4,352
Considering they probably had no resources given to them had to Either rip the graphics from actual Arcade PCB or draw them from VHS.

Split the Sprites into pieces, code it, create the music etc its not bad and World Warriors isnt all that anyway its not that bad port, gameplay and moves aren't right though.

But for gameplay SSF2 on Amiga wins hands down.
Retro1234 is offline  
Old 16 June 2019, 15:30   #114
d4rk3lf
Registered User

d4rk3lf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Novi Sad, Serbia
Posts: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro1234 View Post
You can find rips of the graphics on Codetappers web page
http://codetapper.com/amiga/rips/street-fighter-2/
I don't know if this will help...
...but on one of my threads, Richard Costello (coder for Mortal Kombat 1 and 2, Golden Axe, Primal Rage...), mentioned something about sprites, and also attached scorpion sprite from Mk2:
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...9&postcount=26

I think we can all agree that MK 2 is much better port then SF2 is, so (I hope) this might help someone.
d4rk3lf is offline  
Old 16 June 2019, 15:58   #115
Retro1234
Boo

Retro1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 5150
Posts: 4,352
If you used full characters like in MK you would be running into 100+ of frames in 16 colour so not a good idea.

SF2 Amiga the characters are all mapped in the same 16 colours and the backgrounds use 16 individual colours that means you could have 32 colour background 16 individual colours plus the 16 used for the characters and some copper.
Retro1234 is offline  
Old 17 June 2019, 01:24   #116
dlfrsilver
CaptainM68K-SPS France
dlfrsilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melun nearby Paris/France
Age: 42
Posts: 8,163
Send a message via MSN to dlfrsilver
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro1234 View Post
it definitely got the big Sprites(Bobs) and the graphics are acceptable

You can find rips of the graphics on Codetappers web page
http://codetapper.com/amiga/rips/street-fighter-2/

as you can see the sprites are split into bits thjs would save quite a bit of memory.
Depending how many frames are missing someone might he able to reuse them for a new port

and are the sonic booms bobs or sprites?

I wonder if SSF2 or SSF2T also used this method?
To answer it short, U.S.Gold has ripped in dirty way the SNES version and they had access to the source code of the CPS2 arcade 68000 code.

For SSF2T, Capcom has sent the whole source code on disks to the developers, as well as the graphic assets.

SSF2T A1200 use the arcade tiles (i did a bit of checking on this).
dlfrsilver is offline  
Old 17 June 2019, 10:09   #117
zero
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 335
The issue with SF2 Turbo and other speed-up hacks is that they actually frame-skip internally.

For example they might render 4 out of 5 frames, with the 5th being done internally for movement and animations but not drawn on screen. Some info here:

https://dammit.typepad.com/blog/2011...revisited.html

So if you want Turbo you have to be able to run the game logic faster than 60Hz, which isn't too bad with a fast CPU that only needs to poke a few sprite registers, but on the Amiga...
zero is offline  
Old 17 June 2019, 13:19   #118
roondar
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,297
Quote:
Originally Posted by zero View Post
The issue with SF2 Turbo and other speed-up hacks is that they actually frame-skip internally.

For example they might render 4 out of 5 frames, with the 5th being done internally for movement and animations but not drawn on screen. Some info here:

https://dammit.typepad.com/blog/2011...revisited.html

So if you want Turbo you have to be able to run the game logic faster than 60Hz, which isn't too bad with a fast CPU that only needs to poke a few sprite registers, but on the Amiga...
If they genuinely frame skip internally (and thus only draw at 60Hz) as you say then an Amiga port should be easier as there are much faster CPU's available for the Amiga than those arcade machines used.

In other words, all you need to be able to draw is a 50/60Hz update cycle but the logic (which is entirely CPU bound) gets done faster. Even a basic A1200 should be able to keep up with the logic as it's 14Mhz 68020 is, even with no fast memory, slightly faster than the 16MHz 68000 in the SF 2 Turbo arcade board (CPS-II).

Once you get to the A1200 with fast memory, or anything with a 68030+ the CPU runs rings around the arcade board. Now, this still requires you to draw the stuff in time and have enough memory for the frames. But the logic should not be the problem here.
roondar is offline  
Old 17 June 2019, 15:32   #119
DanScott
Lemon. / Core Design

DanScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Sunny Bournemouth, UK
Posts: 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by zero View Post
So if you want Turbo you have to be able to run the game logic faster than 60Hz, which isn't too bad with a fast CPU that only needs to poke a few sprite registers, but on the Amiga...
Game logic for a fighting game with 2 players..you would be talking perhaps 20-30 rasterlines total on an A500
DanScott is offline  
Old 17 June 2019, 16:53   #120
zero
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 335
I think you underestimate the amount of game logic in SF-II. It's got some kind of scripting engine and I believe it does all the hit detection logic even for skipped frames.

https://sf2platinum.wordpress.com/
zero is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A good port of Super Street Fighter II Turbo on CD32 Rochabian project.CD32 Conversion 26 04 September 2018 21:26
Street Fighter 2 weirdreams Retrogaming General Discussion 4 20 June 2012 23:15
Super Street Fighter 2 Retro1234 project.Sprites 94 12 December 2008 11:20
street fighter stuntpup project.WHDLoad 5 30 August 2007 20:45
[Fixed] Street Fighter II Amigaboy HOL data problems 5 30 December 2002 21:34

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.09477 seconds with 16 queries