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Old 10 October 2018, 11:43   #61
dlfrsilver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ztronzo View Post
Captain Fizz Meets the BlasterTrons
by Psyclapse
Amiga version by Psygnosis was not as enjoyable due to missing music and effects...

Commando also was best on C64

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Commando ? Certainly not. Commando was ported from the coin-op straight, and is faithfull to it on the Amiga.

Commando C64 is far from that. You did not choose a good example to illustrate that.
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Old 10 October 2018, 11:59   #62
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
Commando was ported from the coin-op straight, and is faithfull to it on the Amiga.
What has this got to do with anything? Someone might still like the C64 version better
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Old 10 October 2018, 12:03   #63
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Originally Posted by britelite View Post
What has this got to do with anything? Someone might still like the C64 version better
i don't see how, the Amiga respect and match precisely the coin-op.

the graphics were lifted from the arcade rom board, and i guess that Neil Latarche has converted the Z80 code (he did the 8 bits ZX and CPC versions) to 68000 for ST, then adapted by Mark Ward on the Amiga.

I own Commando on C64, and also Commando on the Amiga. the Amiga version is superior in every possible way.
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Old 10 October 2018, 12:05   #64
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
i don't see how, the Amiga respect and match precisely the coin-op.
Well, this thread isn't about which is the better conversion, but which is the better game. Someone might actually prefer the C64-version over the Amiga (and Arcade original).

Quote:
I own Commando on C64, and also Commando on the Amiga. the Amiga version is superior in every possible way.
That's just like your opinion, man
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Old 10 October 2018, 13:15   #65
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Originally Posted by britelite View Post
That's just like your opinion, man
And that's his.

But I think arguments based on gameplay/playability/difficulty tuning carry more weight than just liking version X more. It is, after all, about which is better. It can make up for much worse graphics, for example.

I would put lack of bugs as a good argument for being better also, but smaller issues that are not game-breaking or frustrating can't make up for a much worse game.

When it comes to conversions, I would definitely put conversion accuracy as an argument for it being better, but considering graphics and processing capabilities of each platform compared to similar games on it. But again, it couldn't make up for a much worse game.

There should be a bunch of games that are full framerate on C64 but not on Amiga. I don't think that alone is an argument for saying version X is better, but it could affect gameplay in a fast action game.

I don't consider 'packaging', i.e. nice title or title music, arguments for which version is better. Only the in-game experience (and intermissions that affect the in-game experience, i.e. interactive map or cut scenes).

Last edited by Photon; 10 October 2018 at 13:24.
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Old 10 October 2018, 13:52   #66
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I remember how much more awesome and arcade like most Amiga games felt compared to the C64 ones when I first got around to playing them.

Fast forwarding 30 years, the sleight of hand of having nice graphics and sampled sounds has mostly worn off and I'm still constantly surprised to find out much more fluid and playable many of the C64 games were than I'd remembered and how much more heavy and sluggish their Amiga counterparts feel in comparison.

There are a few exceptions of course, most of which have already been mentioned here.
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Old 10 October 2018, 14:31   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
I own Commando on C64, and also Commando on the Amiga. the Amiga version is superior in every possible way.
Apart from the legendary C64 Sid soundtrack from Rob Hubbard!
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Old 10 October 2018, 18:22   #68
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The general consensus among c64 fans is that c64 games have aged better, and that they are more responsive and the amiga games are often too focused on cinematics, are slow, monochrome colored with bad samples instead of sid music.

I disagree with this in general. Yes amiga suffers from binky bonky samples, and alot of early amiga games suffer from bad art. But I much rather play the best oldschool amiga games than the best oldshool c64 games.

C64 old school library is overrated.

And most of these "better" games that are mentioned in this thread and elsewhere are these extreme multiplatform games. Most of those where not that good to begin with imho. Take the ocean games for an example. Yes they are in general better on c64. You can tell the people who made the c64 versions where very talented on c64 platform. But in my opinion. Batman the movie, hudson hawk etc are not great game on any platform.


With this said. Modern c64 games development is the best retro gaming development in the world. Only thing remotely close is megadrive.

Last edited by donnie; 10 October 2018 at 18:28.
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Old 10 October 2018, 18:29   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansel75 View Post
Apart from the legendary C64 Sid soundtrack from Rob Hubbard!
That's a good argument
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Old 10 October 2018, 18:36   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donnie View Post
The general consensus among c64 fans is that c64 games have aged better, and that they are more responsive and the amiga games are often too focused on cinematics, are slow, monochrome colored with bad samples instead of sid music.

I disagree with this in general. Yes amiga suffers from binky bonky samples, and alot of early amiga games suffer from bad art. But I much rather play the best oldschool amiga games than the best oldshool c64 games.

C64 old school library is overrated.
I do agree. I find it incredibly complicated to find great games on C64. I've try here and there games supposed to be better, and most of the time i mostly find the soundtrack above the rest, and the playability OMGD :'(

However, the newest games are clearly above 90% of the commercial games that graced this computer : best graphics with the limited palette, good animation, good soundtrack and a quite good playability.

Commando remake and Ghosts'n'Goblins play both nicely


Quote:
And most of these "better" games that are mentioned in this thread and elsewhere are these extreme multiplatform games. Most of those where not that good to begin with imho. Take the ocean games for an example. Yes they are in general better on c64. You can tell the people who made the c64 versions where very talented on c64 platform. But in my opinion. Batman the movie, hudson hawk etc are not great game on any platform.
I do agree. I remember when i bought Batman the Movie for c64, as i wanted to see how it was (i have the Amiga, ST, and CPC versions boxed).

Seriously, what was the coder thinking ? the AI is a borked job, the scrolling is a failure, and when batman fall, you can take a pee & poo and it has still not landed on the ground

Total Rektal is another one.... i bought it, so disappointed :/

Quote:
With this said. Modern c64 games development is the best retro gaming development in the world. Only thing remotely close is megadrive.
Yes
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Old 10 October 2018, 19:37   #71
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
That's a good argument
I think that's a good argument for turning on your C64, start Commando just to listen to the music and maybe play one round and then play another game. Anyone guilty of such behavior? I think it can be forgiven But for some older games it could mean that they're more simplistic while being difficult in order to "last longer", making the game itself perhaps not so attractive to play.

So I don't think it means the C64 version is better. But I think those who have played both know which one they keep returning to, and I think that's a good factor in telling which is better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gimbal View Post
Threads like this make me realize that the Amiga just had way too many shitty conversions. Possibly there are more shitty conversions than actual decent original content?
It was like this until 1988/1989. Then it hit big in PAL countries and creative devs caused the games explosion that we all know. Amiga has way more original commercial games than any other platform, except PC.

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Originally Posted by nobody View Post
Many games were better on the C=64, which has more character i think due to the colors and sound.

Robocop, Boulderdash, Bubble bobble, Buggy boy, Ghouls n ghosts, Tiger road, shinobi, nebulus to name a few.
I agree with all of these, but I think Nebulus and Bubble Bobble are equal.

I'm sorry for not contributing a game of my own, but it seems the only ones I can think of that aren't already mentioned are identical or better on Amiga.

There's the half framerate thing. From a coding standpoint, it's preposterous in almost all instances, since the Amiga had scroll registers and sprites just like C64. But devs didn't take advantage. But does full framerate make a game better? I would say yes, but only for fast action games.

I also think this is a comparison on the C64's terms, since only the games released for C64 can be compared, and some were even released for Atari 8-bit in the 1970s - it's just not expected, nor very likely, that someone would release a comparable game with the same title over a decade later for Amiga.

Last edited by Photon; 10 October 2018 at 22:56. Reason: Removed Beyond the Ice Palace as contribution. I probably just hated it on Amiga and it wasn't good enough to play on C64.
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Old 11 October 2018, 04:07   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
I remember when i bought Batman the Movie for c64, as i wanted to see how it was (i have the Amiga, ST, and CPC versions boxed). the scrolling is a failure
How is the scrolling a failure on the C64 version?, although a little slow it's very smooth and has the smoothest scrolling and movement out of all the 8bit computer versions.
Batman CPC scrolling is the usual 5fps jerkfest that was the standard for most CPC games, while the spectrum version has pretty good scrolling.

For me the C64 and Amiga versions of Batman are the best, an almost equal using each machine to great effect.

Also on topic, another game that i think is better on the C64 then the amiga would be Impossible Mission 2.

Last edited by hansel75; 11 October 2018 at 04:19.
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Old 11 October 2018, 10:16   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansel75 View Post
How is the scrolling a failure on the C64 version?, although a little slow it's very smooth and has the smoothest scrolling and movement out of all the 8bit computer versions.
It's unsuited to the game. The coder just failed on that point ! Who cares about a smooth scrolling when it deserves the game ?

Quote:
Batman CPC scrolling is the usual 5fps jerkfest that was the standard for most CPC games, while the spectrum version has pretty good scrolling.
It's the opposite, batman the movie on CPC shows that the scrolling speed reduced on such a game is better than slow and smooth scroll.

Quote:
For me the C64 and Amiga versions of Batman are the best, an almost equal using each machine to great effect.
Sorry for you, the best 16 bits version is the ST one. The Amiga was a quick port from the ST version, it lacks all the great screens drawn by Dawn Drake.

then comes the Amstrad CPC version, which is burrying down the ZX and the C64 version hands tied in their backs.

This for one reason, the CPC version was made, coded and built on and from the 16 bits versions. And it has another great thing totally missing from the C64 version, a very good AI : the enemies are pursuing and shooting you in the 8 possibles directions, they are as numerous as in the 16 bits ST/amiga version. In the C64 version, 1 type of enemies, dumb as stones stuck in the ground, only 2 directions to shoot you, and they completely ignore you if you can dodge them. On the CPC, try to dodge them, you'll end up with a prune in your ass

Quote:
Also on topic, another game that i think is better on the C64 then the amiga would be Impossible Mission 2.
Impossible Mission 2 originates from the C64, and it shows up even on the amiga.
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Old 11 October 2018, 10:43   #74
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Why did I expect to see this ending in a C64 vs CPC debate beforehand? Well...

btt: The Epyx games series is better on the C64, maybe with the exception of California Games.

The controls of the miggy versions seem to be a little bit laggy and don't feel as tight as in the versions for the breadbin.
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Old 11 October 2018, 10:49   #75
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
Sorry for you, the best 16 bits version is the ST one. The Amiga was a quick port from the ST version, it lacks all the great screens drawn by Dawn Drake.
Don't be sorry - you're wrong. It's a shame that Amiga lacks those extra bits of artwork, but they're only flashed up for a few seconds between levels. It's more than outweighed by the audio. The Amiga version has in-game music and SFX, whereas the ST only has a bip-bip tune playing, including no engine noise in the driving section (can you choose one or the other perhaps? Don't know). That's a pretty poor trade-off between the 2 versions IMO.
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Old 11 October 2018, 11:15   #76
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Originally Posted by clebin View Post
Don't be sorry - you're wrong. It's a shame that Amiga lacks those extra bits of artwork, but they're only flashed up for a few seconds between levels. It's more than outweighed by the audio. The Amiga version has in-game music and SFX, whereas the ST only has a bip-bip tune playing, including no engine noise in the driving section (can you choose one or the other perhaps? Don't know). That's a pretty poor trade-off between the 2 versions IMO.
In 1989, the ST was the lead platform at Ocean. Sorry

It's not the first time a game on Amiga has some assets missing :

(After the War, Satan, Batman The Movie, Crackdown), are all games that have missing assets, and sorry, but having 10% of the game missing, it's something.

i can live with the engine noise missing during the car driving section. I hope that one day a whdload coder will add those images in the Amiga version
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Old 11 October 2018, 11:16   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt. Hindsight View Post
Why did I expect to see this ending in a C64 vs CPC debate beforehand? Well...

btt: The Epyx games series is better on the C64, maybe with the exception of California Games.

The controls of the miggy versions seem to be a little bit laggy and don't feel as tight as in the versions for the breadbin.
Yes the Epyx games series is better on the C64, and also because they were made for this particular platform first and forehand

The Amiga versions were not particularly carefully crafted :/
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Old 11 October 2018, 12:51   #78
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I think Vixen is better on c64 then Amiga
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Old 11 October 2018, 14:12   #79
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I think Vixen is better on c64 then Amiga
It's a crap game, but yes, ok
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Old 11 October 2018, 14:16   #80
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
It's not the first time a game on Amiga has some assets missing :

(After the War, Satan, Batman The Movie, Crackdown)
Interesting. What was missing from Crack Down? I'm racking my brain, but nothing comes to mind that I found particularly missing.
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