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Old 06 December 2016, 17:49   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amilo3438 View Post
IMHO, the main reason why CPCs were so popular in France is because of the different TV system called SECAM.

A CPC with green monitor was cheaper than a C64 with color monitor.
(Same apply for Amiga and ST - there are no SECAM variant of those.)

End of story.
Even the 6128 with color monitor was cheaper than a C64 with additionnal tape drive.

The c64 was a deluxe and expensive toy.
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Old 06 December 2016, 18:15   #82
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Of course, quality have its price.
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Old 06 December 2016, 23:00   #83
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Originally Posted by amilo3438 View Post
Of course, quality have its price.
We had the quality without the price !
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Old 07 December 2016, 08:38   #84
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Old 07 December 2016, 12:08   #85
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Back then, I really envied the CPC owners for tehir machines nice and vivid colours back in the mid eighties.
And somehow I didn't care that much for "smoothness" back then.

It's weird, that so many of the CPC games I liked (I never owned a CPC, though), look so rough now, with their bad scrolling and badly animated software sprites.

Nowadays I couldn't stand that jerkyness.
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Old 07 December 2016, 13:03   #86
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Originally Posted by Steril707 View Post
Back then, I really envied the CPC owners for tehir machines nice and vivid colours back in the mid eighties.
And somehow I didn't care that much for "smoothness" back then.

It's weird, that so many of the CPC games I liked (I never owned a CPC, though), look so rough now, with their bad scrolling and badly animated software sprites.

Nowadays I couldn't stand that jerkyness.
Let's be honest : some game have badly aged. There are myself some games that i just can't play with on CPC, (and that's also true on C64).
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Old 07 December 2016, 18:23   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
Hello guys, after Pinball Dreams, we have a new jewel currently in development for CPC 128k :

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video...z-87aztKzc.mp4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amigajay View Post
Looks half decent, needs to be twice as fast as that build though. Looks like it's playing in slow motion
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
why twice as fast ? The frame rate is not very high, but the speed is good !
There's no doubt that the graphics are impressive, but so were the graphics on the Last Ninja games back in the 80s. Without gameplay to match (read: at least a 25% increase in speed + some scrolling) there's not much point advancing the Amstrad 128k conversion beyond its present tech demo status.......unless the developers want to perhaps switch to the superior Amstrad 6128 Plus machine instead.

Frankly, it needs to be as fast as the 8-bit conversions of IK+ released in 1987/88......which was achieved almost 30 years go now with an extra opponent on screen and much less memory (see conversions: C64, Spectrum 48K, Amstrad CPC).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamelito View Post
[ Show youtube player ]
That's what the developers of the Amstrad 128k version should be aspiring to. That demo of Street Fighter 2 on YouTube really does demonstrate the class and power of the MSX2 (64k) and justifies why it's in the top tier of all 8-bit machines ever produced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shatterhand View Post
Just a nitpicky. Most MSX2 games were distributed in cartridges, so Ram wasn't a big issue. But of course, a few were distributed in floppies and even then the CPC can't even dream about touching them in terms of quality, like Aleste 2 , SD-Snatcher or F1-Spirit Special.
Yes, I was aware that there were a lot of cartridges used on the MSX computer line, but some very good floppy games too. I read many reviews of MSX/MSX2 games in Australian computer magazines that I used to buy - Personal Computer Games and Australian Personal Computer - when I first started using computers in 1983 (BBC, TI99/4A, VIC-20, Atari 400). Happy days!

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Originally Posted by Quazar View Post
The SAM Coupe launched with both 256k and 512k models, although with only a handful of 256k compatible titles, 512k was the standard by the end of 1990.

Lemmings and Oh No More Lemmings have to be the crown jewels of conversions for the SAM - both using the Amiga graphics.
Yep, I was aware of the 512k model too. Prince of Persia and Manic Miner ran on 256k machines, though. Out of curiosity, were there any real enhancements for Prince of Persia on 512k machines? The game simply looks superb and can't be separated from the 16-bit conversions.

Yeh, the Lemmings games are also jewels in the crown for the Sam Coupe`, but probably don't illustrate its largely untapped class and power as demonstrably as Prince of Persia because of the small size of the game components.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hansel75
Are you able to provide links or some kind of proof for the things you state? Most other people are providing links/proof etc in there posts, you are just providing your own personal opinion but post in a tone that makes it sound like facts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
If you want some links i'll provide those

i got all these informations from here and there.
I've got plenty more links too that say very different things from what you have posted.....and they're all from French websites/sources!

Last edited by DrBong; 07 December 2016 at 22:30. Reason: Fixed typo!
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Old 07 December 2016, 20:54   #88
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Originally Posted by kamelito View Post
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How is an 8bit machine able to do this?!
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Old 07 December 2016, 21:03   #89
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stoooop feeding the AMSTROLL
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Old 07 December 2016, 21:07   #90
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How is an 8bit machine able to do this?!
The MSX-2 graphics chip is pretty good. And it's a no scrolling game.

http://www.faq.msxnet.org/msx2.html
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Old 07 December 2016, 21:33   #91
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Quote:
1) Amstrad made Commodore filled for Bankruptcy in France, because for 5 C64 sold, 30 CPC were sold ! People wanted to buy CPCs and not C64 !

2) The C64 machines were in so weak number here that almost no french publisher developed for it, because this computer was not profitable in our country.

the CPC in france had 60% of the market, the Amiga 11%, the ST 10%, and the remaining was occupied by the IBM PCs.
I have the Retro Gamer Videogames Hardware Handbook year 2016 edition here, and it has articles on both standard Amstrad and the 6128 model.

And it says this about Amstrad sales:
"During the Eighties, though, the CPC had become France's best selling computer. The range had swallowed up 50 per cent of the market, selling 650 000 machines."

So if this is true ( and Retro Gamer can't possibly be wrong ), then the claims about Amstrad being number 1 in France are actually true: 50 % market share is enough to dominate the market, and to make such a computer a favourite in the eyes of both retailers and software developers in France.

So it looks like that in the eighties at least, Amstrad was the market leader in France, although the situation maybe changed when the 90ies arrived.

And also now that I think about it, there aren't that many great C64 games made in France, I think most C64 mega hits came from Germany, UK and other european countries, but not so many from France. And the Amstrad's popularity in France was the likely reason.

---

Also, here are some smooth scrolling examples on the Amstrad:

SOTB Demo
[ Show youtube player ]

Edge Grinder
[ Show youtube player ]

Although only a few Amstrad games back then had smooth scroll like this, obviously because the hardware didn't directly support smooth 1 pixel scrolling, and special tricks were needed to make it happen. But clearly it can be done, with pretty amazing results in right hands.
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Old 07 December 2016, 21:36   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trixster View Post
How is an 8bit machine able to do this?!
Yep, some good custom hardware like an innovative graphics chip goes a long way......and a little bit of cheating using a cartridge facility to save precious memory is always handy.

@Master484
There's little doubt that Amstrad was #1 in France, but it's quite likely that the C64 wasn't that far behind in sales as it was sold there from 1982/83 until 1995 when C= France went into receivership (Amstrad was sold in France from 1984/85 to 1990 only). Games were still being produced, advertised and sold in France for the C64 in the late 80s/early 90s by Ocean France, Ubi Soft, Loriciels/Microids, Infogrames/Ere and Titus.....to name but a few. Anyway, this is all a bit moot now and we should really not be straying too far from the topic at-hand of 8-bit conversions of SF 2.

Last edited by DrBong; 07 December 2016 at 22:39. Reason: Added another reply to post + fixed typo.
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Old 07 December 2016, 21:58   #93
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[QUOTE=Master484;1127039]I have the Retro Gamer Videogames Hardware Handbook year 2016 edition here, and it has articles on both standard Amstrad and the 6128 model.

And it says this about Amstrad sales:
"During the Eighties, though, the CPC had become France's best selling computer. The range had swallowed up 50 per cent of the market, selling 650 000 machines."[quote]

Marion Vannier, the french Amstrad Boss, gave the official 1 million mark of CPC sold in France. 650,000 as number is half what was sold in reality.

Quote:
So if this is true ( and Retro Gamer can't possibly be wrong ), then the claims about Amstrad being number 1 in France are actually true: 50 % market share is enough to dominate the market, and to make such a computer a favourite in the eyes of both retailers and software developers in France.
The Amstrad CPC just sent to hell the Zx spectrum, the C64, the TO5, TO7, and any other 8 bits machines sold or available at the same time. Pure and simple.

And yes this is true, that's not a fanboy opinion or what else i know. That's what really happened.

The CPC dominated even the Amiga and the ST (lol)

Quote:
So it looks like that in the eighties at least, Amstrad was the market leader in France, although the situation maybe changed when the 90ies arrived.
The situation changed as most CPC users went onto the Amiga (same great color palette, and personality).

Quote:
And also now that I think about it, there aren't that many great C64 games made in France, I think most C64 mega hits came from Germany, UK and other european countries, but not so many from France. And the Amstrad's popularity in France was the likely reason.
That's basically what i was explaining. I only know 2 french publishers doing some tries on the C64 and then quickly pull the plug because they couldn't make any money with it.

That's why i said a bit above that for 5 C64 sold, 30 CPC computers were sold. This to the point that the sellers in hypermarket were just sending back to Commodore France stocks and stocks of unsold C64 computers. And this has finally led to Commodore France Bankruptcy (they only got their head out of the water thanks to the Amiga).

---

Quote:
Also, here are some smooth scrolling examples on the Amstrad:

SOTB Demo
[ Show youtube player ]

Edge Grinder
[ Show youtube player ]
Not 50 fps, but honestly, owners just didn't gave a fack about having 50 fps games on 8 bits machine. Beautiful graphics and fun and sometimes great music (yeah we had some very good ones). The CPC YM is stereo wired, so the sound is clear, something i cringe at when i use my 1040 STE.

Quote:
Although only a few Amstrad games back then had smooth scroll like this, obviously because the hardware didn't directly support smooth 1 pixel scrolling, and special tricks were needed to make it happen. But clearly it can be done, with pretty amazing results in right hands.
Thanks, the best CPC coders (i talk with some of them ), just told me basically what you said. The CPC has been underused by a lot of publishers back in the day.

But now, things are going for the best No more deadlines, no more common developments and money making troubles. Only the fun !

About the informations i got :

I have found my numbers inside 1 UK magazine released in 1990, in which the publisher Microids gave the so much hidden information that no publisher back in the day would have publicly given : The market share parts of the whole software french market.

The microids guy gave the info in the UK mag because he knew that it won't be published back in France. And here is what he gave to the mag :

60% of market share : CPC
10% : Atari ST
11% : Amiga

The remaining being shared by the PC and Consoles. The C64 and Spectrum being none existant (no publisher here were developping on these 2 machines and for a reason, both got killed by the CPC in the 2 first years of its birth, even Alan Sugar tried to force Marion Vannier to sell zx spectrum, and she told him, "i won't be able to sell them, people want to buy CPCs, send me instead CPCs !").

Next, i found in a french magazine the opposite : the UK market share numbers at the date of Feb 1991 :

40% market share : C64 & Speccy
19% : Amiga
12% : Atari ST
10% : CPC

Remaining the consoles.

I would love to find the numbers for Germany, as well as Spain.

But as one can see, the CPC was even higher than both Amiga and Atari ST I don't think things change too much between 1990 and 1991.

Last edited by dlfrsilver; 08 December 2016 at 01:28.
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Old 07 December 2016, 22:13   #94
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Quote:
There's little doubt that Amstrad was #1 in France, but it's quite likely that the C64 wasn't that far behind in sales as it was sold there from 1982/83 until 1995 when C= France went into receivership (Amstrad was sold in France from 1984/85 to 1990 only).
I'm sorry Carlo, but you're wrong in this respect. C64 sales were so bad in France, that Commodore France went to fill up for bankruptcy.

In 1987, there were no C64 commercial games available to buy in shops in France.

All you could find were CPC tape and disk, Atari ST, Amiga, IBM PC 5.25 games/utilities.

Quote:
Games were still being produced, advertised and sold in France for the C64 in the late 80s/early 90s by Ocean France, Ubi Soft, Loriciels/Microids, Ere and Titus.....
The games were made outside France by external teams for the UK and German market. Those games were not available in France to buy.

Quote:
to name but a few. Anyway, this is all a bit moot now and we should really not be straying too far from the topic at-hand of 8-bit conversions of SF 2.
yeah
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Old 07 December 2016, 23:00   #95
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about that MSX version of Street Fighter.

a) The game doesn't scroll. This makes everything easier for the MSX, since this its biggest issue.
b) It's running from a 2mb cartridge. It's a huge game for MSX standards.
c) The music is coming from a FM extension. No FM extension = no music
d) Most of the sfx comes from a Moonsound card. No Moonsound card = loses all the nice sfx (including voice samples)
e) AFAIK, the version shown in this video was a beta shown at an MSX party and was still full of bugs. The version that was released to public had the name of "Pointless Fighting" and has only 6 characters: Ryu, Chun-li, Dhalsim, Guile, E.Honda and Cammy.

And honestly, if you consider the game is running from a 2mb cartridge, there's nothing graphically here that's so surprising for an MSX2.
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Old 08 December 2016, 07:42   #96
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Why not use the secret until 2010 hardware scrolling the CPC has and scroll the screen too a little bit, show the CPC power, put the Amiga and ST to shame.

Maybe way too many KB, maybe 160*160 are way too many pixels to pull for the old 8080 cpu, I hope not and we'll be alive when the CPC manages to pull a backdrop.
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Old 08 December 2016, 08:08   #97
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
Marion Vannier, the french Amstrad Boss, gave the official 1 million mark of CPC sold in France. 650,000 as number is half what was sold in reality.
I wouldn't necessarily believe any figures quoted by any of these "boss" types. The C64 community didn't believe the 30 million quoted numbers and worked out the true figures (closer to 17 million from memory) based on serial numbers of the machines. That's about the only realistic way to know.

Don't forget that lying sack of shit Steve Jobs was quite happy to continually publish those ads in the early 80s saying that Apple was top selling computer when it was #3, got beaten to the 1 million mark by the C64 etc etc. These corporate types are always going to talk up their own company figures, so although 1 million MAY be accurate for the CPC in France, I have my doubts - especially so since it's such a round number!
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Old 08 December 2016, 08:34   #98
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I would love to see CPC games back in the day and write in the box "contains hardware scrolling, check that you have 128kb ram, check your video chip type has the required registers and your CRT has 312 lines to pull the trick before buying" then go back home and experience pacman level 256
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Old 08 December 2016, 08:51   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
If you want some links i'll provide those

i got all these informations from here and there.
Were still waiting for the links!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
About the informations i got :

I have found my numbers inside 1 UK magazine released in 1990, in which the publisher Microids gave the so much hidden information that no publisher back in the day would have publicly given : The market share parts of the whole software french market.

The microids guy gave the info in the UK mag because he knew that it won't be published back in France. And here is what he gave to the mag :

60% of market share : CPC
10% : Atari ST
11% : Amiga

Next, i found in a french magazine the opposite : the UK market share numbers at the date of Feb 1991 :

40% market share : C64 & Speccy
19% : Amiga
12% : Atari ST
10% : CPC
Are we to take your word on these supposed facts you read from some magazines you haven't named, links/scans/proof please!

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stoooop feeding the AMSTROLL
But it's to much fun!

Also why are people talking about the french computer market in the 80's like it was the most important market in the world.
It's just 1 country and of no major significance in the overall scheme of things.
The C64 sold at least 17million computers in the UK, Germany and most of Europe, it was also huge in the USA, Australia and many other countries.
There is no comparison really when it came to the CPC dominating in only 1 country, and only selling 3 million units worldwide!
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Old 08 December 2016, 09:30   #100
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Don't forget that lying sack of shit Steve Jobs was quite happy to continually publish those ads in the early 80s saying that Apple was top selling computer when it was #3, got beaten to the 1 million mark by the C64 etc etc.
To be fair Apple probably was the #1 selling computer*

*with a black & white screen!
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