Project: Retrogaming joystick for the masses

[Swevicus]

Dear EAB,

This is my first post and first thread. I would like to announce that I am attempting to design an arcade-quality joystick for retrogamers that will surpass the fabled Competition Pro and Zipstik controllers. The controller is intended to be fully user-serviceable (I know some people like to modify their joysticks) with genuine arcade machine parts (Japanese, so either Sanwa or Seimitsu) and at a reasonable price (in terms of performance and quality). I would like to know what kind of stick people are most interested in and are most comfortable using (ball top, bat top, trigger) and what features they like to have (autofire, slow motion, etc.), just so I can get an idea as to what my (potential) target audience wants. In order to maintain multiplatform compatibility, I may have to settle for the Atari standard (1 fire button), as the 2-button standard varies from machine to machine (Atari ST and Amiga use the Sega Master System pinout, while the Amstrad CPC, MSX and Sharp X68000 use the MSX pinout). Besides, 2-button Amiga games are few and far between (most notably the Turrican trilogy).

I look forward to reading your thoughts, comments and replies.

Yours sincerely,
Swevicus.

[Amiga1992]

Most games nowadays are fixed to support 2 buttons.

A one button joystick is totally uninteresting, and I suggest you do add a second button (at least) with a switch that changes the pad between SMS, MSX and Megadrive standards. I'd have 3 buttons so you can also support the Sega Megadrive console and then two other modes where buttons B and C perform as SMS or MSX.

Since you are building it from the ground up, this would be a very interesting addition and the first joystick to support such flexibility. Would definitely get one of those (with a ball top sanwa joystick )

[Swevicus]

I'll see what I can do.

[Zak]

My problem with arcade sticks is that they need to be steered with the left hand. I steer a Competition Pro with my right hand and got used to it so much that I cannot use a modern arcade stick.

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by Zak

My problem with arcade sticks is that they need to be steered with the left hand. I steer a Competition Pro with my right hand and got used to it so much that I cannot use a modern arcade stick.

Don't listen to this crazy guy 😁

No but seriously, I agreed to what Akira said previously. Support for two buttons +mode switch would be great. (A switch like that is not a lot of extra work or cost, so why not, right?)

Also great if the stick top is replacable, however not in the crappy way the Wico 3x stick was done where the grip would rotate and/or move up n down.
It needs to be fixed in place. Maybe simply screw on different sticks?
(Buyer decides which one he/she wants).

What is your plan for size/weight/price - ballpark figures?


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[Swevicus]

Size? Around 25 * 15 * 5 cm (wooden base with aluminium panel, for those who like to print custom artwork). I don't know how heavy it will be in terms of weight/mass, probably between 200 and 500 grams. Price? Here's an approximation if - IF - I can get this thing done:

£30 (UK)
€36 (Eurozone Countries)
$40 (US)
$50 (Australia/NZ)
$52 (Canada)

The stick itself is intended to be replaceable - don't like Seimitsu? No problem - swap it with a Sanwa. The same will go for the buttons. It'll likely be a ball top (although the shaft can be converted to use bat top handles with an adaptor but not vice versa), with a possible inclusion of a larger handle for bigger hands. Everyone loves ball top handles, no?

[Zak]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

Don't listen to this crazy guy 😁

I meant that seriously. Most of today´s arcade sticks have the stick on the left and the buttons on the right side and I can´t use them. I wonder why that was made that way, because most people are right handed? Why is that crazy?

I used to have a gamepad that had a switch and you could turn around the pad and steer it with the right hand, I found that very useful.

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by Zak

I meant that seriously. Most of today´s arcade sticks have the stick on the left and the buttons on the right side and I can´t use them. I wonder why that was made that way, because most people are right handed? Why is that crazy?

I used to have a gamepad that had a switch and you could turn around the pad and steer it with the right hand, I found that very useful.

Tbh, your question is valid.
Topic has been discussed of course, elsewhere "on the internets"
http://ux.stackexchange.com/question...rs-left-handed

[Swevicus]

The Gravis Gamepad for PCs

I took the liberty of designing some cases for the joystick using Tinkercad, and I have saved them as screenshots on my Photobucket page HERE.

The first design is inspired by the Italian-made Albatros joystick by Alberici Spa, first introduced in 1982 (I'm slightly biased because I'm Italian), with complete ambidexterity in mind - see image HERE.

The second design is inspired by the Arcade Professional made by Emax Computing, released in 1984 (I like this controller because of its relative obscurity, actual two-handed control, adjustable restrictor on the joystick to 2, 4 or 8-way mode and the fact that it has a dedicated autofire button in addition to a standard fire button) - see image HERE.

[ransom1122]

Im a self taught right handed joystick player. Its hard to play left handed but im used to it now. Still prefer and feel better playing right handed with my old star cursor atari joustick.

[Daedalus]

Another vote for 2-button mode. If you're looking to support different standards, it's trivial to add a small switch at the back or underneath for selecting the correct mode.

Edit: And good luck, it sounds like a great project!

[Swevicus]

Thank you.

I have plans for two prototype models: one is intended to be a more complex controller (2-button compatibility and a switch to toggle between Atari/Sega and MSX mode), kind of like a QuickShot Maverick done right. The second prototype is a simplified version with a dedicated autofire button in addition to a regular fire button, similar to the Emax Arcade Professional.

[Swevicus]

I'm one day into this project and I've already hit a snag: converting the Sega/Atari pinout to MSX/CPC/X68000. I've toyed with the idea of building an adaptor dongle, but I can't find the right parts, and my knowledge of electronics is... limited. Goddammit, why do I rush into these things unprepared?

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by Swevicus

I'm one day into this project and I've already hit a snag: converting the Sega/Atari pinout to MSX/CPC/X68000. I've toyed with the idea of building an adaptor dongle, but I can't find the right parts, and my knowledge of electronics is... limited. Goddammit, why do I rush into these things unprepared?

Do you have proper documentation of the respective pinouts?
Should not be a huge problem to use a switch to "'re-wire" wires from the fire buttons from "XY" to "XZ".
What kind of switch did you envision?

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[Swevicus]

Yes, I have the documentation for the pinouts. I also have a Sega Master System controller to use as a guinea pig. I'm thinking of using an on/off toggle or rocker switch (ideally illuminated) to switch between Sega/Atari and MSX modes (Switch on = MSX mode, switch off = Sega/Atari mode).

[Daedalus]

I've a lot of experience fiddling with controllers and custom hardware, and I'm happy to give you any help you need I don't have an MSX myself though so I'm not familiar with the pinouts or capabilities of their ports. But from looking at the pinout, for a passive joystick (i.e. no autofire or active circuits), you just need a DPDT switch that swaps pins 7 and 9 to swap between the two modes. Note that I would also add a resistor to the ground line, as if it's connected to the Amiga in MSX mode, fire 2 will short out the +5V supply.

If you need it illuminated, or want autofire, it will be a little more complicated because then you're introducing a +5V line that also needs to be switched. 3PDT and 4PDT switches are available for this task, but they're not as common and don't have as wide a range available, so your choices of style of switch will be more limited.

[Swevicus]

I want to focus on the MSX-toggle circuit for the time being, so I need a power source to illuminate the LED on the switch (thinking of getting an illuminated rocker switch), and I need to figure out a way to wire up the respective pins.

[Daedalus]

Oops, I'm home now and having a proper look at the pinouts - there are more pins that need to be swapped over for basic 2-button operation. Pins 9 & 7 have to be swapped and pins 8 & 9 also have to be swapped. That's doable with a standard DPDT switch, but there would be no illumination and autofire would depend on the pull-ups for power (works fine for some, not for others). For illumination, a 4PDT switch would be needed, swapping pins 9 & 7, 8 & 9 and 5 & 7, and the fourth terminal providing the illumination on/off.

I can draw up a quick sketch to show you what that might look like...

An alternative might be to use some logic to do the switching, which would allow the use of any sort of switch, but greatly increases the complexity.

[Swevicus]

Let's keep it simple for now. I can do without the illumination (as long as there's some form of visual and/or tactile feedback, I'm OK) and the autofire can be designed as a separate unit if necessary (similar to Sega's Rapid Fire Unit for the Master System). 2-button operation sounds more complicated (and inconsistent) than I thought.

[Daedalus]

Well, for single button operation you simply need a SPDT switch to swap over ground between pin 8 and pin 9. A DPDT switch doesn't make things that much more complicated so you might as well go with a DPDT switch and decide between illumination or a second fire button. Either option is doable, just not both.