New Warp 1260

[rabidgerry]

So I have been holding out for a while now for the ACA 060 accelerator, but I don't see it on the horizon anytime soon, so this warp 1260 caught my eye. But did I hear right (read) right? It doesn't come with a processor? I've had some cash waiting for the moment to buy a 060 accelerator card and if its €500 without a processor then I'm out of that game already.

How likely is the TF360 and TF1260 to come with a 060 fitted? Also I don't seem to be able to find their website where do I go to read about these?

And what is the difference between both models? I almost certainly will be buying a 060 card it's just a matter of which one and when depending on what comes out first I guess and price I suppose.

[Chucky]

yes it is 500 without cpu. you send them a CPU and they test and fit it..
they might have some with cpu to sell. but I guess there will be quite a demand.

TF360 and TF1260 will be sold both with and without cpu. but.. it is expensive to stock CPUs (even if I do got some. but not THAT many that people seems to believe)

TF360 is for CD32 TF1260 is for the A1200

[d4rk3lf]

@rabidgerry
What's the options for 040 then?
I remember you since your first thread, and yeah, you were always been eager for fast Amiga's. I saw on other thread you bought 030, and I understand you wanted something faster. And indeed, difference between (fast) 030 and 040, seems much bigger then difference between (fast) 020 and 030. Especially these Doom, and other 3D type of games.

So, what's the options for 040?
Does Aca have some 040 version? Or some other new accelerators?

[Chucky]

ACA will support 040. buut that is the only one doing it I guess. the price would be the same actually now. supporting 040 would make price HIGHER..

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

@rabidgerry
What's the options for 040 then?
I remember you since your first thread, and yeah, you were always been eager for fast Amiga's. I saw on other thread you bought 030, and I understand you wanted something faster. And indeed, difference between (fast) 030 and 040, seems much bigger then difference between (fast) 020 and 030. Especially these Doom, and other 3D type of games.

So, what's the options for 040?
Does Aca have some 040 version? Or some other new accelerators?

The simple answer is greed . I might even hold onto my ACA1233n and go buy another Amiga 1200 and have the big accelerator in it. I dunno I will see. Basically I played Doom on my A1200, Doom Attack. And it was great, but slowed down way to much when things got busy so I know to run this type of thing I will need something with more power.

@Chucky
That's what I thought, well I can't see me getting a Warp then.

Terrible Fire it is then.

Are you saying people don't believe you have 060's in stock? You make the TF1260 then?

[eXeler0]

@rabidgerry economics of scale do not apply in Amigaland so none of these things will reach any sort of volume production, yet there are some hard costs associated with these products.
I asked StephenL (TerribleFire) once if he was planning a 040 version, but answer was a pretty clear NO.
The nice thing about TF1260 is that you don't pay for Stephens hardware development time, just the components and maybe something for the build of the cards. But components alone are pretty expensive. So a 060 card will never be super cheap, it just can't be done. But yes, you will probably be able to buy one with a CPU installed from some of the guys building it, but it may be a case of "first come, firs served". I'm speculating here.

ACA 1240/60 will probably not be cheap either.. We all know Jens needs to cover development cost. The big advantage there is that ppl can save €100 by choosing a 040 over a rev6 060 but other than that it will likely be an expensive card which also uses a custom cooling solution and build quality is usually high on these and you get a warranty.

The Warp1260 is a really neat piece of hardware. But here you sort of pay for hardware development (which you can guess was a significant effort as its not just a 060 it also has RTG, audio, USB and all these things will be stuff people will want to work more or less out of the box.) There's special software written to make all this work, and that of course was another huge effort. Then we have the components and the custom designed and built cooler. Put it all together and you see it can not be cheap.

[Chucky]

@rabidgerry

nah people thinks I got all 060s there is. while I only got maybe 20 or so rev6 and 20 rev5. I will make Tf1260s yes.

[kipper2k]

The Warp is a very nice board,lots of features but the price is restrictive to most people. There will be an FPGA option soon available for those that cannot afford the cost of a Warp or a TF board. Sorry didn't mean to hijack thread, just want to let people know there are options

Originally Posted by eXeler0

@rabidgerry economics of scale do not apply in Amigaland so none of these things will reach any sort of volume production, yet there are some hard costs associated with these products.
I asked StephenL (TerribleFire) once if he was planning a 040 version, but answer was a pretty clear NO.
The nice thing about TF1260 is that you don't pay for Stephens hardware development time, just the components and maybe something for the build of the cards. But components alone are pretty expensive. So a 060 card will never be super cheap, it just can't be done. But yes, you will probably be able to buy one with a CPU installed from some of the guys building it, but it may be a case of "first come, firs served". I'm speculating here.

ACA 1240/60 will probably not be cheap either.. We all know Jens needs to cover development cost. The big advantage there is that ppl can save €100 by choosing a 040 over a rev6 060 but other than that it will likely be an expensive card which also uses a custom cooling solution and build quality is usually high on these and you get a warranty.

The Warp1260 is a really neat piece of hardware. But here you sort of pay for hardware development (which you can guess was a significant effort as its not just a 060 it also has RTG, audio, USB and all these things will be stuff people will want to work more or less out of the box.) There's special software written to make all this work, and that of course was another huge effort. Then we have the components and the custom designed and built cooler. Put it all together and you see it can not be cheap.

[trixster]

Do you have any details on this, kipper2k?

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by kipper2k

The Warp is a very nice board,lots of features but the price is restrictive to most people. There will be an FPGA option soon available for those that cannot afford the cost of a Warp or a TF board. Sorry didn't mean to hijack thread, just want to let people know there are options

Well, the obvious FPGA option already available (sort of) is the Vampire 1200 but Im pretty sure that's not what your'e referring to. Is there a *rough* time frame associated with this new option? (Time is also a factor for people when they are about to decide what to get)

And while I and many others surely welcome more options and more choices in various price ranges, there will always be a divide between the "I'm OK with FPGA" -people and the "It has to be a genuine Motorola CPU or I might as well use WinUAE" -people ;-)

Anyway, remarkable how all these new options converge in time 26 years after the death of Commodore.

[kipper2k]

The Warp board would cost ~$950 CAD and the Vampire not far behind. That is too rich for me, i could buy a nice Ryzen equipped computer for that price. There will be news on the fpga accel thread soon. Sorry, no more hijacking.

Originally Posted by eXeler0

Well, the obvious FPGA option already available (sort of) is the Vampire 1200 but Im pretty sure that's not what your'e referring to. Is there a *rough* time frame associated with this new option? (Time is also a factor for people when they are about to decide what to get)

And while I and many others surely welcome more options and more choices in various price ranges, there will always be a divide between the "I'm OK with FPGA" -people and the "It has to be a genuine Motorola CPU or I might as well use WinUAE" -people ;-)

Anyway, remarkable how all these new options converge in time 26 years after the death of Commodore.

[aeberbach]

Originally Posted by Chucky

@rabidgerry

nah people thinks I got all 060s there is. while I only got maybe 20 or so rev6 and 20 rev5. I will make Tf1260s yes.

I had this great mental image of you in a cave resting on a big pile of 060s, turning up the heat in winter by calculating mandelbrots. You ruined it.

[grelbfarlk]

I haven't seen much talk of the capabilities or specs of the ARM CPU on the board. In the long run that might make this in a much different performance class than a nice modern 060 board or any consumer grade FPGA.

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by Chucky

@rabidgerry

nah people thinks I got all 060s there is. while I only got maybe 20 or so rev6 and 20 rev5. I will make Tf1260s yes.

When you say rev5, is that the 1E41J mask? That one was made on .42um process (previous revs were all on 0.6um and rev 6 is on .32um). Do you know how high/fast the rev 5 go with proper cooling (something like what Warp has)?
Feel like it should hit at least 75-80MHz.
And is there a good "off the shelf cooling solution" you guys that will be making the TF1260 can use?

[Chucky]

1E41J is rev6

he TF1260 will have a softwarecontrolled fan.

[grelbfarlk]

I haven't had much luck with my Rev5 060s. With a heatsink+fan 66MHz is usually fine but not on all of them, 60MHz always works but from what I've seen any 060 does that. With enough cooling if you have a "good" one 80MHz is possible but far from guaranteed.

[torsti76]

Originally Posted by Chucky

1E41J is rev6



he TF1260 will have a softwarecontrolled fan.

Isn't the Rev. 6 mask 71E41J? Or is that the older Rev. 6 mask used by Motorola?

Rev. 5 is 01G65V btw.

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by torsti76

Isn't the Rev. 6 mask 71E41J? Or is that the older Rev. 6 mask used by Motorola?

Rev. 5 is 01G65V btw.

Ye sorry that was a copy/paste slip from my excel sheet. I meant to copy the cell above Chucky just responded to what I typed.
I meant "01G65V" which I bought once being advertised as a rev 5 (from a German seller on ebay) I've never checked it though as I have a rev 6 (71E41J) on my Apollo 1260 board.

It Says XC68060 on the CPU which would indicate "not fully qualified part" even it its rev 5. If I'm not mistaken, regarding RC models (with FPU, MMU) only the last mask is an MC part?

Edit:
Also, is there a reliable source that lists the "missing masks" for all revisions 1-6?
Mostly we only see these masks for RC parts:
MC68060RC50 mask 71E41J (aka rev 6)
XC68060RC50A mask 01G65V (aka rev 5)
XC68060RC50 mask 01F43G (aka rev 1...)
What masks are rev 2,3,4 respectively?

[torsti76]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

Ye sorry that was a copy/paste slip from my excel sheet. I meant to copy the cell above Chucky just responded to what I typed.
I meant "01G65V" which I bought once being advertised as a rev 5 (from a German seller on ebay) I've never checked it though as I have a rev 6 (71E41J) on my Apollo 1260 board.

It Says XC68060 on the CPU which would indicate "not fully qualified part" even it its rev 5. If I'm not mistaken, regarding RC models (with FPU, MMU) only the last mask is an MC part?

Edit:
Also, is there a reliable source that lists the "missing masks" for all revisions 1-6?
Mostly we only see these masks for RC parts:
MC68060RC50 mask71E41J (aka rev 6)
XC68060RC50A mask01G65V (aka rev 5)
XC68060RC50 mask01F43G (aka rev 1...)
What masks are rev 2,3,4 respectively?

Rev. 2: Apparently, they also use the 1G65V mask, but are manufactured using larger structures.

I've never seen a Rev. 3

Rev. 4 AFAIK mostly (If not only) exists in the EC/LC variant without functioning FPU. Masks are 2G65V and 3G65V respectively.

And you are right: The MC prefix only appears in later, i.e. rev. 6 models.

[sean_sk]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

there will always be a divide between the "I'm OK with FPGA" -people and the "It has to be a genuine Motorola CPU or I might as well use WinUAE" -people ;-)

A 68060 is still a 68060 even if it’s in a FPGA. Many chip manufacturers test their designs in FPGA’s before going to manufacture. A 68060 in an FPGA will probably run faster, be a lot cooler and probably a lot cheaper than one of the old ones.