KryoFlux: IPF write support - Page 3

desiv · 19 July 2011, 22:29

Just got my KryoFlux!
Man, that's a tiny board... :-)
Followed the setup paperwork..
I know, I know.. I don't usually read instructions first, but I saw some DOS commands in there and figured, better safe then trying to remove stuff from the registry later. ;-)

All went smooth, grabbed a floppy drive (ALPS 3.5") from an unused PC and hooked it all up.
Did the trackscan (this drive says 83 tracks); I assume that's OK for a 3.5".
Grabbed my copy of Faery Tale Adventure (original) and typed the command to make an image..
(I did the ADF and the raw files, just to see)
And I have LOTS of files.. ;-) One of which is an ADF.
Loaded it into WinUAE and there was Faery Tale Adventure.. Nice and easy...

Right now I'm just using an old PC power supply, so it's kind of awkward, but I think I know where some external single SCSI drive cases are (with their own power).
I'll have to spit the power and add a floppy power cable..
Not sure if they have enough room for both a 5 1/4" and a 3 1/2", but I can at least use their power supply to have something smaller than this. ;-)

(I don't actually have a 5 1/4" drive yet anyway..)

Thanx...
Can't wait for write support...

Well, I suppose I can wait.. ;-)
And will, but I can't promise it will be patiently!!!

desiv

prowler · 19 July 2011, 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.vince

I know some will see this as an insult, but it's not meant this way.

We just felt the ST deserved it as well. Enjoy!

[ Show youtube player ]

Great work!

No insult taken.

Preservation is of equal importance on all platforms, and many of us here are multi-platformers anyway. Indeed, for those of us who are, the KryoFlux is even more valuable!

Carlos Ace · 20 July 2011, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.vince

Broken original game? Used a virus scanner to replace the allegedly dangerous non-standard bootblock? Bought it from eBay just to find out it was "fixed" by copying a crack over it?
Don't worry... you will be helped!
[ Show youtube player ]

desiv · 20 July 2011, 03:02

Re-reading this thread and..

Quote:

Originally Posted by IFW

but the bottleneck here is how consistent the index signal is on your drive - you'd have zero chance of writing this on the ALPS drive I used before.

oooppsss.. The drive I grabbed was an ALPs..
I'll check some of my other PCs to see what they have..
You're good with the Samsung?
Is there any way to "test" that or have the software let you know how good your drive will be?

Just wondering,

desiv

mr.vince · 20 July 2011, 07:29

Unfortunately, no. It's just trial 'n' error. We should compile a list on the KryoFlux forums...

If you don't need 84 tracks (only one or two games ever made use of this), there are very reliable ones from e.g. TEAC, that come with a die cast chassis.

dlfrsilver · 20 July 2011, 08:49

the ALPS drive is also present in the Sega System 24 arcade board as floppy disk drive

mr.vince · 20 July 2011, 11:29

Of course it is, it's in many other machines as well. You just would not buy it if you were a replicator because their index detection is... sluggish... crappy... not worth the hassle.

Please note that this is absolutely ok for anything that is not protected (=less precise is ok).

dlfrsilver · 20 July 2011, 12:33

the system24 use a custom floppy controller that allows to write big tracks with big sectors in PC format.

mr.vince · 20 July 2011, 12:59

So once again, unless you don't intend to do any fancy things with the Index, all is fine. I assume that with big tracks with big sectors you mean less but larger sectors. This is not a very advanced protection.

You are of course free to use an ALPS drive, go and buy one right away. But please don't complain. You have been warned.

IFW · 20 July 2011, 13:08

I used an ALPS drive while developing KryoFlux writing, and the inaccuracy of the index signal had always been a major source of problems.
Using a Samsung drive instantly resolved all of those issues...
Unless you try to write something very, very precisely (like KryoFlux does) it shouldn't matter though.
It could be that it was just my ALPS drive was faulty, or it could be all of them.

mr.vince · 20 July 2011, 13:23

And please stop speaking of Samsung in public. I have trouble getting stock if everyone tries to get them.

The TEACs have the advantage that they have a die cast chassis which is very sturdy and won't break (or misalign!) so easily. The Samsungs are less robust.

dlfrsilver · 20 July 2011, 14:13

I use a sony drive

the one that is sold actually in the shops

Supamax · 20 July 2011, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

I use a sony drive

the one that is sold actually in the shops

Is it still sold? In the SHOPS??

mr.vince · 20 July 2011, 16:47

We can still get new stock in Japan. We are talking 3.5 floppy drives here...

dlfrsilver · 20 July 2011, 18:36

chinese in paris still sells them

!

desiv · 20 July 2011, 19:29

Well, I have at least 2 other 3.5" drives in PCs around here, and maybe more around. They probably aren't ALL ALPS. ;-)
And I still have to pick up a 5 1/4" drive eventually, so I have to hit my favorite electronics store.. The one that has the "back corner" with all the OLD JUNK.. ;-)
I love that section. ;-)

I am going back and forth tho..
Build a bigger case (possibly use one of the SCSI ones I think I can find) for both drives.
Or, use a power adapter and make a smaller case (I have an A1010 case that might work) and do just the 3.5", and only hook up the 5 1/4" when I need to....

Decisions.. Decisions... ;-)

desiv
p.s. I have to go sign up for your forums! :-)

kipper2k · 20 July 2011, 20:18

i just done more testing of ipf writes and i was kinda sad to see that there are a few Sony PC > Amiga modded drives that will not load some Amiga floppy protections (try Barbarian 2). I have a few more models to try. Successful ones include Chinon, and modded Teacs 1231T

desiv · 20 July 2011, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by kipper2k

.. that there are a few Sony PC > Amiga modded drives that will not load some Amiga floppy protections (try Barbarian 2).

Just for clarification, this is after it was written by Kryoflux, the Amiga with those drives wouldn't load the game?
But you are thinking that Kryoflux wrote it properly and the Amiga with those drives wouldn't have loaded the original copy as well???

Just wondering..

Also, is there a game (or games) that would be the best "test" to see if the drive you have chose is the best choice?
I saw something earlier about GnG??
Or I have an original Dragon's Lair, which I seem to remember at the time was tough to copy...

desiv

kipper2k · 20 July 2011, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by desiv

Just for clarification, this is after it was written by Kryoflux, the Amiga with those drives wouldn't load the game?
But you are thinking that Kryoflux wrote it properly and the Amiga with those drives wouldn't have loaded the original copy as well???

Just wondering..

Also, is there a game (or games) that would be the best "test" to see if the drive you have chose is the best choice?
I saw something earlier about GnG??
Or I have an original Dragon's Lair, which I seem to remember at the time was tough to copy...

desiv

Hi, i am confirming that the ipf image wrote correctly using my Sony Z/121 PC floppy drive but i was unable to actually load the game in my amiga using the modded sony Z/121, when i tried the original Chinon, it worked fine, and also the modded FD1231T worked fine.

Dragons Lair has worked fine in all drives i tested. Ghosts n Goblins is basically looking for a specific Amiga, 1 meg with Fast ram at C000000 otherwise it will not load.

You have to be careful when assessing whether a game ipf is actually working or not because there are a lot of earlier releases that are looking for a specific configuration Amiga. The best Amigas to try are the A500 with 512K fast ram and a A600 with dual kickstart (for non AGA) Also some games expect either NTSC or Pal or will simply fail to load (Battle Squadrion for example)

IFW · 20 July 2011, 22:27

Just to clarify: we have three issues here.
1, compatibility of the original game with various Amiga models
2, compatibility of any given drive (if modified for internal Amiga use)
3, incompatibility of Escom produced Amiga models due to missing drive signals

None of these have anything to do with KryoFlux - however if you actually want to use the original games written, you should really consider these things.

The only thing that does have effect on KryoFlux usage is the precision of the speed and signals of the drive being used to write the disk with KryoFlux plus the quality of the disk used.

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19 July 2011, 22:29	#41
desiv Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Salem, OR Posts: 1,770	Just got my KryoFlux! Man, that's a tiny board... :-) Followed the setup paperwork.. I know, I know.. I don't usually read instructions first, but I saw some DOS commands in there and figured, better safe then trying to remove stuff from the registry later. ;-) All went smooth, grabbed a floppy drive (ALPS 3.5") from an unused PC and hooked it all up. Did the trackscan (this drive says 83 tracks); I assume that's OK for a 3.5". Grabbed my copy of Faery Tale Adventure (original) and typed the command to make an image.. (I did the ADF and the raw files, just to see) And I have LOTS of files.. ;-) One of which is an ADF. Loaded it into WinUAE and there was Faery Tale Adventure.. Nice and easy... Right now I'm just using an old PC power supply, so it's kind of awkward, but I think I know where some external single SCSI drive cases are (with their own power). I'll have to spit the power and add a floppy power cable.. Not sure if they have enough room for both a 5 1/4" and a 3 1/2", but I can at least use their power supply to have something smaller than this. ;-) (I don't actually have a 5 1/4" drive yet anyway..) Thanx... Can't wait for write support... Well, I suppose I can wait.. ;-) And will, but I can't promise it will be patiently!!! desiv

20 July 2011, 07:29	#45
mr.vince Cheesy crust Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hawk's Creek Age: 48 Posts: 1,383	Unfortunately, no. It's just trial 'n' error. We should compile a list on the KryoFlux forums... If you don't need 84 tracks (only one or two games ever made use of this), there are very reliable ones from e.g. TEAC, that come with a die cast chassis.

20 July 2011, 08:49	#46
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,421	the ALPS drive is also present in the Sega System 24 arcade board as floppy disk drive

20 July 2011, 11:29	#47
mr.vince Cheesy crust Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hawk's Creek Age: 48 Posts: 1,383	Of course it is, it's in many other machines as well. You just would not buy it if you were a replicator because their index detection is... sluggish... crappy... not worth the hassle. Please note that this is absolutely ok for anything that is not protected (=less precise is ok).

20 July 2011, 12:33	#48
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,421	the system24 use a custom floppy controller that allows to write big tracks with big sectors in PC format.

20 July 2011, 12:59	#49
mr.vince Cheesy crust Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hawk's Creek Age: 48 Posts: 1,383	So once again, unless you don't intend to do any fancy things with the Index, all is fine. I assume that with big tracks with big sectors you mean less but larger sectors. This is not a very advanced protection. You are of course free to use an ALPS drive, go and buy one right away. But please don't complain. You have been warned.

20 July 2011, 13:08	#50
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	I used an ALPS drive while developing KryoFlux writing, and the inaccuracy of the index signal had always been a major source of problems. Using a Samsung drive instantly resolved all of those issues... Unless you try to write something very, very precisely (like KryoFlux does) it shouldn't matter though. It could be that it was just my ALPS drive was faulty, or it could be all of them.

20 July 2011, 13:23	#51
mr.vince Cheesy crust Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hawk's Creek Age: 48 Posts: 1,383	And please stop speaking of Samsung in public. I have trouble getting stock if everyone tries to get them. The TEACs have the advantage that they have a die cast chassis which is very sturdy and won't break (or misalign!) so easily. The Samsungs are less robust.

20 July 2011, 14:13	#52
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,421	I use a sony drive the one that is sold actually in the shops

20 July 2011, 16:47	#54
mr.vince Cheesy crust Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hawk's Creek Age: 48 Posts: 1,383	We can still get new stock in Japan. We are talking 3.5 floppy drives here...

20 July 2011, 18:36	#55
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,421	chinese in paris still sells them !

20 July 2011, 19:29	#56
desiv Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Salem, OR Posts: 1,770	Well, I have at least 2 other 3.5" drives in PCs around here, and maybe more around. They probably aren't ALL ALPS. ;-) And I still have to pick up a 5 1/4" drive eventually, so I have to hit my favorite electronics store.. The one that has the "back corner" with all the OLD JUNK.. ;-) I love that section. ;-) I am going back and forth tho.. Build a bigger case (possibly use one of the SCSI ones I think I can find) for both drives. Or, use a power adapter and make a smaller case (I have an A1010 case that might work) and do just the 3.5", and only hook up the 5 1/4" when I need to.... Decisions.. Decisions... ;-) desiv p.s. I have to go sign up for your forums! :-)

20 July 2011, 20:18	#57
kipper2k Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Thunder Bay, Canada Posts: 4,323	i just done more testing of ipf writes and i was kinda sad to see that there are a few Sony PC > Amiga modded drives that will not load some Amiga floppy protections (try Barbarian 2). I have a few more models to try. Successful ones include Chinon, and modded Teacs 1231T

20 July 2011, 22:27	#60
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	Just to clarify: we have three issues here. 1, compatibility of the original game with various Amiga models 2, compatibility of any given drive (if modified for internal Amiga use) 3, incompatibility of Escom produced Amiga models due to missing drive signals None of these have anything to do with KryoFlux - however if you actually want to use the original games written, you should really consider these things. The only thing that does have effect on KryoFlux usage is the precision of the speed and signals of the drive being used to write the disk with KryoFlux plus the quality of the disk used.

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