Outrun Port using Lotus engine? Possible?

[LongLifeA1200]

Originally Posted by 005AGIMA

I'd argue that's a perfectly good thing to want.

Only if I had to choose, because of limited coders, artists & musicians.

My main point was that there is more variety of games on the Amiga than Arcade/Console.

In other words; Amiga isn't inferior, in my eyes, just because it doesn't port every arcade game perfectly.

Originally Posted by 005AGIMA

It's a topic all of it's own.

This thread will 'out run' the other duplicate threads without being any closer to a product. Mostly to discuss whether the Amiga can or cannot do the job.

Even though it sounds simple, it's still a tall order.

Think of it this way, this is like a "Help Wanted" ad, but nobody answers. The request is very popular, but there just isn't anyone available to take the job.

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by LongLifeA1200

Think of it this way, this is like a "Help Wanted" ad, but nobody answers. The request is very popular, but there just isn't anyone available to take the job.

Well understandable considered what is happening for other ports: stellar expectations and a little-asteroid-size-bit of entitlement as much as is needed to drive any good will coderand asset maker loco :/

[spud]

Originally Posted by DanScott

Nope, not even close

Did you have any involvement in Jaguar XJ220?

[eXeler0]

My standard comment every time someone says Amiga 500 should be able to run a perfect Outrun port is that it took the power of Sega Saturn to reach perfection. (And Saturns actually improves on it with a 50Hz mode (pal), so I guess a straight port should have been possible on the 32X but that one came out almost at the same time so..)

Of course the SEGA nerds are discussing the same thing
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/285...on-to-the-32x/

[rothers]

You could not get a PERFECT port but you could get pretty close, about as good as Lotus2.

I'd approach it by rendering the zoomed graphics on boot in to RAM, I'd concentrate on having the first level as close to the arcade as possible then reduce it from there on in.

You would not really need a multi-disk game but you could have it pause after say level 2 to do the new zoom rendering. If I was coding it I'd have probably had the car pull over for a 'pitstop' or 'refuel' while that happened.

There are a lot of ways you could approach this. With some pauses you could get very close to the MD version which was a decent port.

Would need 1MB min though.

Certainly the Amiga is capable of a WAY better conversion than it got. Way way way better. But what we got was an ST conversion.

[lordofchaos]

Another way to save memory could be to stream assets from the disk, just like SWIV. You could avoid a pause by loading data on a long straight section with reduced objects, and just the the players car. Maybe?

EDIT: Also it really needs to be full screen, or very close. To many Amiga games with small play areas, it would mean reducing colours and cutting corners.. Team 17 seem to be very good at this design method.

[LongLifeA1200]

Originally Posted by rothers

You would not really need a multi-disk game but you could have it pause after say level 2 to do the new zoom rendering. If I was coding it I'd have probably had the car pull over for a 'pitstop' or 'refuel' while that happened.

There are a lot of ways you could approach this. With some pauses you could get very close to the MD version which was a decent port.

As long as we're talking about Consoles (Cartridge) & Arcades (ROM) we might as well even up the playing field and make use of the side-port for a cartridge of up to 5MB (comparable to the technology used in the day).

If SNES/Genesis players were happy to spend their parents' money on ~5MB cartridges then why can't we use the same tech to prove how capable the Amiga truly was.

[britelite]

Originally Posted by LongLifeA1200

If SNES/Genesis players were happy to spend their parents' money on ~5MB cartridges then why can't we use the same tech to prove how capable the Amiga truly was.

Prove that the Amiga is capable of using additional memory? I'm pretty sure there's software out there that does that already

[LongLifeA1200]

Originally Posted by britelite

Prove that the Amiga is capable of using additional memory? I'm pretty sure there's software out there that does that already

The suggestion is that would be somehow "cheating" because it's not within "stock" spec. Allowing a cartridge to be used should end that discussion.

[britelite]

Originally Posted by LongLifeA1200

The suggestion is that would be somehow "cheating" because it's not within "stock" spec. Allowing a cartridge to be used should end that discussion.

Games were never released on cartridges for Amiga, so I would consider it as much cheating as utilizing memory expansions. And at least utilizing fast ram wouldn't make the game incompatible with anything else than an A500.

[vulture]

How about hdd then? Would the data be read quickly enough as to not have lengthy pauses in-game?
Also, hmmmm, as an engine, to my untrained eyes, Outrun Europa's and Jaguar's seem to be better suited for the task than Lotus' in terms of gfx capabilities.

[LongLifeA1200]

Originally Posted by britelite

Games were never released on cartridges for Amiga, so I would consider it as much cheating as utilizing memory expansions.

Floppy disks were cheaper so it was an obvious choice. "Choice" being the key word. At least the computer was capable of game-cartridges if manufacturers bothered. It's no different to what Sega/Nintendo/Old-Atari were doing so how is it cheating really? It evens up the storage/loading side of things. I think it's fair.

Originally Posted by britelite

And at least utilizing fast ram wouldn't make the game incompatible with anything else than an A500.

Why would that matter if the motivation behind it is only to prove a specific model was as (if not more) capable than it's counterparts (Arcade/Consoles) had publishers chosen a cartridge instead of floppy.

(A500) That's all these discussions are ever about, usually.

[Galahad/FLT]

My memory is hazy on Outrun, but it didn't have hills like Lotus 2 does did it?

The biggest issue is the branching of the road into different forks that Lotus didn't ever do, so a much bigger road redraw routine for when that happens.

[britelite]

Originally Posted by LongLifeA1200

Why would that matter if the motivation behind it is only to prove a specific model was as (if not more) capable than it's counterparts (Arcade/Consoles) had publishers chosen a cartridge instead of floppy.

Well, maybe it's just me not really understanding the obsession of proving anything, I'd rather just enjoy the Amiga for what it is. But hey, looking forward to your cartridge version of the game, will be interesting to see how it performs

[roondar]

I'm rather happy publishers didn't use cartridges on the Amiga.

Sure, you can probably do some nifty things with them (especially if you use the trap door slot on rev 5+ A500's with the 1MB chip ram compatible Agnus). But both the A500's slots are not designed for many insertions/removals of cards. And I'd rather have a functional A500 than a broken one

Not to mention it would've meant games would only work on the A500 and not say the A1200 or A3000.

[hooverphonique]

Originally Posted by LongLifeA1200

Why would that matter if the motivation behind it is only to prove a specific model was as (if not more) capable than it's counterparts (Arcade/Consoles) had publishers chosen a cartridge instead of floppy.

Discussing capability is a bit void when cartridges are involved, since many of them included custom accelerator hardware, and thus it is no longer about the capabilities of a certain amiga or console.

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by vulture

How about hdd then? Would the data be read quickly enough as to not have lengthy pauses in-game?
Also, hmmmm, as an engine, to my untrained eyes, Outrun Europa's and Jaguar's seem to be better suited for the task than Lotus' in terms of gfx capabilities.

Would definitely say Outrun Europa engine, since it also has forks; just am not sure how hackable it is

[LongLifeA1200]

Originally Posted by hooverphonique

Discussing capability is a bit void when cartridges are involved, since many of them included custom accelerator hardware.

Many? Very few I'd say.

Originally Posted by hooverphonique

Thus it is no longer about the capabilities of a certain Amiga or console.

Adding extra RAM and processing power is modifying the machine. But if all you're doing is providing ROM (Read Only Memory) then 100% of the work is stilled relied upon the unmodified machine.

Nothing is void if it is just a ROM chip.

Originally Posted by roondar

I'm rather happy publishers didn't use cartridges on the Amiga.

We're all grateful.

These days, though, people are wanting uninhibited re-ported games. Floppy disk just puts the kibosh on a lot of that.

[005AGIMA]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

My memory is hazy on Outrun, but it didn't have hills like Lotus 2 does did it?

The biggest issue is the branching of the road into different forks that Lotus didn't ever do, so a much bigger road redraw routine for when that happens.

Yeah Outrun had hills. And hills in Lotus were tweakable in the track editor in....erm 3? was it?

Originally Posted by saimon69

Would definitely say Outrun Europa engine, since it also has forks; just am not sure how hackable it is

Not played Europa so may need to look into that if it was actually a good version on Amiga.

Interestingly, I believe I am correct in saying that the inspiration for the original Outrun was actually a roadtrip across Europe, hence the variations in levels, but the easier sell was a trip across the USA, Cannonball style.

[hooverphonique]

Originally Posted by LongLifeA1200

Adding extra RAM and processing power is modifying the machine. But if all you're doing is providing ROM (Read Only Memory) then 100% of the work is stilled relied upon the unmodified machine.

Nothing is void if it is just a ROM chip.

Ok. My comment was sparked by you writing

had publishers chosen a cartridge instead of floppy

which to me implied cartridges with more than just ROM.