Individual Computers - New accelerator cards for A600 & A1200

[frank_b]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

They probably do 4-2-2-2. You can't do X-1-1-1 with normal D-Ram. I make excessive use of SD-Ram features here.



There's two things that may cause a burst to be slower:

1. you start it when it doesn't make sense (at the end of a cache line)
2. you run it all the way through, 4 longwords, "no matter what".

My ACA cards will only start a burst if it's NOT at the end of a cache line, and they stop a burst if the end of a cache line is reached. Call it a "dynamic burst", because it can be 2, 3 or 4 cycles long, depending on what's most useful.

All this stuff is described in the original Motorola literature. I'd be surprised if Phase 5 has not implemented this, because it's not that hard to do.

Jens

Yeah I have the moto 020 and 030 user manuals. I was using an aligned copy which is why I found it odd. A sequential memory copy with data burst off is considerably faster than without on those old cards.

[NovaCoder]

Originally Posted by Fabie

a first personshooter game that runs at 12fps is not playlabe in any form
to be playlable and enyoylable and smooth Doom needs at least 45-50 fps
and none amiga Turboboard reach that framerate ...even the 040/40 or the 060/50
maybe that rare A1200 /060 turboboards hacked to run at 80mhz can reach 45 fps
anyways

for me it is nonsense comparing turboboards with Doom on Amiga
the best way to play Doom is doomsday port for windows....that's is really nice

You're obviously spoilt by modern 60fps shooters, when doom came out my little 386 run it smoothly at only 15fps, which is why Doom was so damn popular in the first place, you didn't need a powerful machine to run it well

[Leffmann]

Originally Posted by NovaCoder

You're obviously spoilt by modern 60fps shooters, when doom came out my little 386 run it smoothly at only 15fps, which is why Doom was so damn popular in the first place, you didn't need a powerful machine to run it well

This is of course subjective, but you can't seriously call 15 FPS smooth. Start your favorite game in WinUAE and set the frame skip to 3 on PAL (16.7 FPS) or 4 on NTSC (15 FPS) and come back and say with a straight face that the game still runs smooth

[Fabie]

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Actually Risen3D is the better Doomsday : http://risen3d.drdteam.org/

better than doomsday?
uau !!
I have to check that
thanks for the link !!!

[Fabie]

Originally Posted by NovaCoder

You're obviously spoilt by modern 60fps shooters, when doom came out my little 386 run it smoothly at only 15fps, which is why Doom was so damn popular in the first place, you didn't need a powerful machine to run it well

I know that the original Doom was developed by ID software on 486 machines running at 100mhz
using a 486/100mhz Doom is smooth and reach 60 fps...even more
of course the minimum requirements to run the game maybe is a 386 but 15 fps on a 386 is not smooth
a 386 is like a 020 or a 030
you feel it smooth on that ancient time...but it was not smooth

[desiv]

There's a difference between "smooth" and "enjoyable."
Was doom "smooth" on my 386, probably not.

Was it fun and enjoyable? Heck yeah...

We don't all need 50+ FPS to enjoy a game.

Even nowadays...

desiv

[Adropac2]

15 frames for 3d is hardly a total jerkfest though is it considering loads of Amiga games for example didn't even manage this.For 2d then yes it's a little harder on the eyes.At 5 frames then i'd agree more to the point.I'd even argue that 3d say at some 17 frames is worse on the eyes than much less than that especially if we're talking textures

Animation too can get under 10 frames and still be acceptable

[NovaCoder]

Don't forget that how you view the game plays a large part in how 'smooth' it looks, my old 386 and my A1200 had slow-burn CRT's whereas now days I'm using a 100Hz LCD TV for my 60FPS FPS (too many TLA's for sure!).

I think we're getting a bit off topic here BTW.

[Oliver_A]

Originally Posted by Fabie

a first personshooter game that runs at 12fps is not playlabe in any form

In 1994, I was playing Doom on a 386-50Mhz CPU, which barely made it over the 10fps mark in Low Detail Mode. Most people played Doom that way back then.

to be playlable and enyoylable and smooth Doom needs at least 45-50 fps

Just too bad that the Doom engine doesn't allow higher framerates than 35fps (or half the refresh of a VGA 320x200 mode).

and none amiga Turboboard reach that framerate ...

If we ignore the fact that Doom actually can't run higher than 35fps: the PPC version on my Blizzard PPC runs at exactly that maximum frame rate. On AGA. So wrong again.

for me it is nonsense comparing turboboards with Doom on Amiga
the best way to play Doom is doomsday port for windows....that's is really nice

Well, then what are you doing here? You obviously have no interest in classic computing, which is about collecting and maintaining our beloved babies. If you replace the engine of your classic car with a brand new, custom made replacement part, you want to make sure that it gives you at least comparable results, if not better.

Anyone can buy an el-cheapo PC and claim: Doom runs better on it. That's hardly the point. The point is that we offer brand new 68030 turboboards, which are affordable, compatible, have lots of memory and even improve performance compared to the models which were available back then. How fast can we make a turboboard without breaking compatibility? One practical answer is: to whip the 68030.

If you question that, then you can question your hobby, the scene, almost anything being discussed here.

[Calabazam]

How could the framerate be determined in ADoom or DoomAttack?
Is there some type of console command?

[Fabie]

Originally Posted by Calabazam

How could the framerate be determined in ADoom or DoomAttack?
Is there some type of console command?

on Adoom there is a tooltype named FPS
I do not remember very well.... check the Adoom icon

[Fabie]

Originally Posted by Oliver_A

Well, then what are you doing here? You obviously have no interest in classic computing, which is about collecting and maintaining our beloved babies. If you replace the engine of your classic car with a brand new, custom made replacement part, you want to make sure that it gives you at least comparable results, if not better.

Anyone can buy an el-cheapo PC and claim: Doom runs better on it. That's hardly the point. The point is that we offer brand new 68030 turboboards, which are affordable, compatible, have lots of memory and even improve performance compared to the models which were available back then. How fast can we make a turboboard without breaking compatibility? One practical answer is: to whip the 68030.

If you question that, then you can question your hobby, the scene, almost anything being discussed here.

of course I'm interested in classic computing......but Doom is not classic on Amiga
and can be played on a better way on a PC with better ports
I think a better option is comparing a game like alien breed 3d2 which was an original amiga game
please check if AB3D2 is faster on the new 1230 because this game was slow even on a 060

[Calabazam]

Originally Posted by Fabie

on Adoom there is a tooltype named FPS
I do not remember very well.... check the Adoom icon

I see.
For information, i am around 15 FPS on AGA/68060 with Doomattack, full screen and high details. ADoom doesn't want to use my wads, so i can't tell.

[vroom6sri]

Back to the topic of the thread... How and when will I be able to buy one of these (if they don't sell out before I get my act together) in the UK? Is the cost to the buyer just going to be the 99 Euros plus P&P (A1200 accelerator) or is that the price they will be supplied to sellers for.

AND a big thank you for this amazing development work by the way.

[amigakit.com]

@Vroom6sri

You will be able to buy them from us in a few weeks time. We will announce availability on the www.amigakit.com when they are in stock.

[Fabie]

Originally Posted by Calabazam

I see.
For information, i am around 15 FPS on AGA/68060 with Doomattack, full screen and high details. ADoom doesn't want to use my wads, so i can't tell.

that's strange but read ADoom'documentation about wad files
maybe your wad files have an incorrect name

[daxb]

Oliver_A:
Do you have the possibility to try/test doomattack to get fps? As far as I can remember adoom didn`t worked here or was too slow. We could compare my APollo 1240/40 with 1230/56. AIBB memtest says that APollo was only 15% faster.

[DDNI]

Doomattack gives me 35fps on 060 using Voodoo3 320x240x8.
AGA 320x256 using the 040+ c2p routine also gives 35fps with same system.

ADoomPPC on AGA 320x256 gives me a solid 35fps.

[TronPlayer]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

A1200, EC030, 64MB = 99,- EUR
A600, full-030, 32MB, all mechanical parts included and pre-assembled = 159,- EUR
Jens

Originally Posted by RMK

Is the faster A1200 price of 199Euro set in stone? Is this going to be the last one released?
Thanks,

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Nothing is set in stone about a faster A1200 version. I don't know if I'll release the faster version, what speed it'll be and what the price will be. I focus on Xmas business and that consists of the two cards I just mentioned.

Hi,
Can you please tell me if the 1200 56mhz card is going to be available for Christmas as well? According to the first posts in this thread both the 28mhz and 58mhz versions will be available by Christmas. But according to the posts above it sounds like only the 28mhz version will be.

[Schoenfeld]

Originally Posted by TronPlayer

Hi,
Can you please tell me if the 1200 56mhz card is going to be available for Christmas as well? According to the first posts in this thread both the 28mhz and 58mhz versions will be available by Christmas. But according to the posts above it sounds like only the 28mhz version will be.

The 56MHz version will be later than the 28MHz version, and I can't tell if we'll make it before Xmas. The faster CPU interface is a whole new development - even if the card looks the same, the contents of the CPLD are substantially different. This development is a lot more difficult than the slower versions, so I can't give a firm release date for the faster version.

Jens