Off with the rose-colored glasses! The hard look back at your Amiga childhood

[Amigajay]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

HEY I bet we got pirated NES Clones before you guys got it.



Not Xenon. Just Xenon 2

Ok, I'm sorry. Again. I'll let you guys enjoy bad games in silence.

No really, you are right. I guess I overstated my point.

Hey, no worries, sorry if my msg came across harsh.

Btw we didn’t like the NES enough in the UK to warrant any clones! Master System all the way like Brazil!

[Shatterhand]

Originally Posted by Amigajay

Hey, no worries, sorry if my msg came across harsh.

Btw we didn’t like the NES enough in the UK to warrant any clones! Master System all the way like Brazil!

No feelings harmed

I don't think we cloned (ilegally, lets not forget) the NES because we liked them, it's just that it was cheaper and easier to do

The thing with the Master System here is that it had proper support and it was a legal licensed product from a company that could buy ads on TV, something none of the NES clones could do. But the fact they STILL produce and sell Master Systems to this day here is something really amazing.

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

No feelings harmed

I don't think we cloned (ilegally, lets not forget) the NES because we liked them, it's just that it was cheaper and easier to do

My preference for computer and console systems seems to be based on the colour palettes they offered, and the comparisons between both:

I thought the NES colour palette was reminiscent of the PAL C64 palette, ie. it SUCKED.
I thought the Mega Drive/Genesis palette was identical to the Atari ST, ie. no big deal.
I thought the SNES colour palette was a revelation, with its 32,768 colours AND 256 colours on screen, easily beating OCS/ECS Amigas for a 16-bit system! That's why I consider SNES the clear winner in this comparison, and a system I would dearly have loved to own.

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

I agree with this. Like I said, I really think Apidya is the only shoot'em up on system that could face the best ones made in Japan.

I still think the others one I mentioned are still pretty solid, if not as good as what you can find on consoles.

I would also consider Uridium 2 and Banshee. The former has a gameplay mechanism not found in Japanese games, and runs absolutely smooth, while the latter is a rather well-weighted 1942 clone with very detailed graphics.

[Shatterhand]

Uridium 2 is so unique that I don't know what to compare it with (Uridium 1 maybe? Hehe). But I find it to be a frigging awesome game. Everytime I boot it up I have tons of fun, even today. It's really an awesome game and would have a place on any 16 bits library.

I haven't played a lot of Banshee because I never owned an AGA machine. I remember what I played of it left a taste of bad euroshmup on me.. levels dragging for too long, enemies needing too many shots to go down, etc. But honestly I would need to play it properly to give a better opinion about it.

[Retro-Nerd]

Banshee is a really good plane shooter. There is really no "bad Euro shmup" vibe there. Plays still great. And Hybris has very long levels too, don't forget that.

[jizmo]

You have to take a look at the situation from the late 80s perspective.

Back then it was the arcades that were the crème de la crème of the games and we all were really happy if we got something that even remotely resembled the original: Witnessing big sprites, cool sounds or even actual screens from the arcade on the Amiga were enough to impress most of us. Operation Thunderbolt for example with its superb between the levels art and speech samples straight from the original machine really blew me away at the time.

All in all, there was a certain pride knowing that if there was a machine that could pull off the original gfx and sounds, it would the the Amiga. Also there was also a lot of undeniable charm to inviting the still 8-bit people to gasp the lush 16-bit presentation.

Fast forward some 30 years and original arcade versions are readily available and nice graphics and sampled sounds are given, not extra. Any issues with the playability or overall shallowness these days stick out like a sore thumb, when on the other hand the modest presentation of the 8-bit versions C64 or Nes versions is easy to overlook if the playability is there.

That being said, conversions like Escape from the Planet of the Robot Monsters, Indy Heat, Ironman Stewart's Super Off Road, Rainbow Islands, Marble Madness, Midnight Resistance, Pang, Rainbow Islands and Rodland are perfectly fine ports that I enjoy playing on Amiga as much as on the arcade – if not even more in some cases.

[Shatterhand]

The bad ports are usually from Sega and Capcom games, which were big names but unfortunately usually licensed by Activision or US Gold who didn't give a damn about game quality.

If you look at arcade games from other companies ported on Amiga you'll find a lot of good stuff.

[Master484]

Xenon 2 is a piece of

According to HOL it was also converted to the Sharp X68000, which is quite interesting, because this would mean that Xenon 2 might be the only "Amiga original" game ever to be converted to this Japan-only super-computer.

I wonder if it got "5 out of 5 stars" reviews in japanese X68000 gaming magazines too.

---

But about the off-topic, I think Amiga games compared well against the games of other machines available in Europe at that time.

For example, consider this: The SNES wasn't released in Europe until Summer 1992. But before the year 1992 even arrived, the A500 game library already contained many games that were about as good as the best SNES games.

We already had many "console like" games like James Pond 2 : Robocod (1991), Turrican 2 (1991), Lotus 2 (1991), Shadow of the Beast 1 & 2 (1989-1991), Gods (1991), Another World (1991), Speedball 2 (1990), Paradroid 90 (1990) and Battle Squadron (1989), just to mention a few.

Also Star Fox on the SNES came out in 1993, and it was supposed to be something new and awesome. But 5 years before that, in 1988, Amiga had 3D action games like Starglider 2 and Virus. And later we got awesome open world 3D action games like Midwinter 1 & 2 (1990-1991) and Hunter (1991).

So back then there were a lot of "console quality" games in the Amiga game library, before the actual "16-bit console war" between the SNES and MD even truly begun in Europe.

[Amigajay]

Originally Posted by Master484

According to HOL it was also converted to the Sharp X68000, which is quite interesting, because this would mean that Xenon 2 might be the only "Amiga original" game ever to be converted to this Japan-only super-computer.

Lemmings came out for it too, annoyingly it was so hard to locate a copy when i was doing my Lemmings book, I only knew one person in the west who owned a copy it’s that scarce, even the PC98 and FM Towns versions are easy in comparison!

[idrougge]

Populous and Powermonger also came out for the X68000.

[Amigajay]

Originally Posted by idrougge

Populous and Powermonger also came out for the X68000.

Yeah there was quite a few just looking now, Battlechess, Kick Off 2, Mega lo Mania, a few Cinemaware titles (not sure which format had them first)

[Foebane]

You know what? All this talk of the Sharp X68000 being superior to the Amiga prompted me to look up videos like this with the games: [ Show youtube player ]

And to be honest, they don't look that impressive to me. I think the Amiga could recreate a lot of these games, easily. Then again, the audio sounds cleaner, but more artificial, like some kind of crappy FM synthesis, which is the hallmark (to me) of an inferior sound chip. PCM audio like Paula all the way, baby!

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Amigajay

Lemmings came out for it too, annoyingly it was so hard to locate a copy when i was doing my Lemmings book, I only knew one person in the west who owned a copy it’s that scarce, even the PC98 and FM Towns versions are easy in comparison!

Check The Zone! then

[Shatterhand]

Originally Posted by Foebane

You know what? All this talk of the Sharp X68000 being superior to the Amiga prompted me to look up videos like this with the games: [ Show youtube player ]

And to be honest, they don't look that impressive to me. I think the Amiga could recreate a lot of these games, easily. Then again, the audio sounds cleaner, but more artificial, like some kind of crappy FM synthesis, which is the hallmark (to me) of an inferior sound chip. PCM audio like Paula all the way, baby!

You gotta be kidding, right? Just compare the games on that video that exists on Amiga with their Amiga versions.

No, an A500 can't touch a X68000.

On its lowest model, the X68000 comes with a 68000 at 10 mhz and 1mb of ram.

But its power is really on its graphical chip.

65536 colors
32 sprites per scanline. Each sprite can have 16 colors, chosen from 16 different palletes.
You can have a Bitmap playfield with 65536 colors, or 2 playfields at 256 colors each or 4 playfield at 16 colors each.
On top of that you sill have TWO TILE LAYERS with 256 colors each.

Soundwise is has 8 FM Chanells + 2 DAC channels + 1 PCM Channel.

You are joking, right?

And keep in mind, many X68000 games were made by "Bedroom coders" too, there are a lot of doujin games on that list.

No, most stuff on that video can't be done on an A500 with 1mb Ram. It can't. I'm sorry mate, but you are delusional if you truly believe that.

[Tigerskunk]

I concur, the X68000 curbstomps the OCS Amiga technics wise, unfortunately.
(which doesn't mean that all games on it are amazing)
The A1200 can be en par in certain scenarios, though.

[ruinashiro]

Originally Posted by Master484

According to HOL it was also converted to the Sharp X68000, which is quite interesting, because this would mean that Xenon 2 might be the only "Amiga original" game ever to be converted to this Japan-only super-computer.

I wonder if it got "5 out of 5 stars" reviews in japanese X68000 gaming magazines too.

Here are some Japanese comments on Xenon 2 X68000:

"Xenon 2 doesn't really have the feel of a shooter. The only thing fun about it is the shopping lol. The bosses have so few patterns but take a ridiculous amount of hits to kill that it turns me off."

"Can you believe Xenon 2 sold well on the Amiga? It even made it into the rankings."

It obviously did not make the Japanese rankings. I have an old magazine with the top 250 x68000 games and xenon 2 didn't make it...

[Tigerskunk]

Well, i loved everything about Xenon2, except playing it.
The music was cool for its time, the graphics look still superb, imo.

But whoever thought all those design decisions (shop, flying backwards, 17 fps, massively overblown hitpoints on enemeies) were a good idea never played a shooter before.

[ruinashiro]

Originally Posted by AmigaHope

Big exception I think would have to be Apidya. If it had been released in Japan on the PC Engine or the Megadrive (and had its cutscene art improved by a better artist) it would have been well-remembered as a classic. Not top-10, but probably top-100. The creative bosses and secret levels are pretty unique.

I did mention Apidya as the exception!

But it would be only top-200 for me... There are just so many great shooters.

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

But its power is really on its graphical chip.

65536 colors
32 sprites per scanline. Each sprite can have 16 colors, chosen from 16 different palletes.
You can have a Bitmap playfield with 65536 colors, or 2 playfields at 256 colors each or 4 playfield at 16 colors each.
On top of that you sill have TWO TILE LAYERS with 256 colors each.

Soundwise is has 8 FM Chanells + 2 DAC channels + 1 PCM Channel.

There is no way in hell that this is a 16-bit specification, sounds more like 32-bit. This even exceeds the SNES, for crying out loud! As a result, 16- to 32-bit is not a fair comparison.

I don't care about your Japanese machine, I will stand by my rose-tinted belief that Jay Miner hardware will always be the best, most elegant, and versatile in the world.