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Old 23 January 2018, 23:47   #181
dlfrsilver
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Old 23 January 2018, 23:57   #182
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Old 20 November 2018, 10:40   #183
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Originally Posted by Master484 View Post
Ok thanks for the info, until now I have believed that Neo Geo has 900 sprites...this info I originally read from Wikipedia I think, but now Wikipedia too says it has only 380. Oh well.
It is incredibly difficult to get Wiki to agree to suggested changes that you know are correct with scans of media from the correct time period, which is why I gave up writing for the damned thing a decade ago now.
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Old 20 November 2018, 10:51   #184
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Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
I think one obstacle was the 464, actually. The 6128 has a lot more RAM to dedicate to the quite heavy graphics and all the tricks needed to work around certain hardware limitations.
You need to have a very good look at the driving/flying levels of Batman the Movie on Amiga and ST side by side, one of many games constantly championed on the Amiga but use nothing more than the DACs in the conversion clearly (Xennon II is another 16 colour hyped Amiga game)

If you specifically mean horizontally scrolling games then yes I suppose very few CPC games could come close to Sly Spy, however the joke of a port of Golden Axe to C64 vs CPC is another example of better than expected/competition. Then again Sly Spy and Chase HQ are horrible on the Amiga (excluding 5 minutes of code changes to replace Yamaha YM2149 routines with DAC based routines in C source code there's not much improvement!). Done properly and fully utlizing the chipset the Amiga would have had an envy level similar to the mythical sharp x68000 (which has no blitter and so also has horrible chase hq release...except for the music).

Very very few games on either ST or Amiga come close to the host machine's capabilities sadly. How many into the screen racing games not written by Shaun Southern on Amiga don't make you embarrassed? Was there ever game that came close to the parallax polish of Salamander 1986 coin op on Amiga? Was there ever a decent 64 colour Amiga game? How many games use most of the Amiga chipset so well as Shadow of the Beast 1 overground level? (not even the following levels of Beast 1 that's what).

Once you have played arcade quality games like Enchanted and Wrath of the Demon on the ST you know pretty much all released ST games were badly coded too.
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Old 20 November 2018, 10:57   #185
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Originally Posted by Trachu View Post
Hello

If you havent seen this game take a look here:
[ Show youtube player ]

It is probably the most action filled arcade game ever created.

The amount of graphics in this game is massive and NeoGeo machine is much more powerful than Amiga, so that is why i called it madman task, but maybe its possible.

To start thinking about this I converted the graphics to unfied 16colour OCS palette and they look really good
<Link to Zone removed> Check out db16.zip in the Zone

I used 16 colours because i dont even dream that we can fit more into 512kB chip RAM.
The whole unpacked IFFs uses 40MBytes, but they are far from being optimised:
1. A lot of sprites are repeated so we could use only the once that matter
2. IFF optimisation so no black spaces
3. Reduction of enemies etc.
4. At worst case we could go for 8 colours provide 25% reduction in graphics size...
5. Use chip AHX music and sounds

Anyone mad enough to do this?
I think to make something beautiful you do need 32 colours per scanline ie copper used too, not just 32 colour bitmaps. Even 256 to 32 colours is sometimes impossible to make beautiful with today's tools.
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Old 20 November 2018, 12:28   #186
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Originally Posted by ImmortalA1000 View Post
I think to make something beautiful you do need 32 colours per scanline ie copper used too, not just 32 colour bitmaps. Even 256 to 32 colours is sometimes impossible to make beautiful with today's tools.
The Amiga Copper can't update 32 colours per scanline during the horizontal blank. It's simply not fast enough, so that is not going to happen.

During the horizontal blank, it's limited to 15 (or with a bit of fiddling, 16) colours per scanline. However, this assumes the copper is not used for vertical scrolling, horizontal line scrolling, sprite reuse, etc and as such might not be a realistic number depending on the game you're trying to make.

You could argue that you can change more colours by starting partway through the scanline instead of only using the horizontal blank. This is indeed possible, but this either limits you to a static screen or becomes extremely difficult to do without colour clashing (unless you enforce certain colours to not be used on certain horizontal parts of the screen, which kind of defeats the purpose).
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Old 20 November 2018, 13:35   #187
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Originally Posted by roondar View Post
The Amiga Copper can't update 32 colours per scanline during the horizontal blank. It's simply not fast enough, so that is not going to happen.

During the horizontal blank, it's limited to 15 (or with a bit of fiddling, 16) colours per scanline. However, this assumes the copper is not used for vertical scrolling, horizontal line scrolling, sprite reuse, etc and as such might not be a realistic number depending on the game you're trying to make.

You could argue that you can change more colours by starting partway through the scanline instead of only using the horizontal blank. This is indeed possible, but this either limits you to a static screen or becomes extremely difficult to do without colour clashing (unless you enforce certain colours to not be used on certain horizontal parts of the screen, which kind of defeats the purpose).
Maybe we can "only" change 8 pixel per line which will give us a lots of colors on screen, and use other for bobs... We can use dual playfield for that, so we can speed up a lot bobs', and having sprites as plyers with 16 colors..
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Old 20 November 2018, 14:21   #188
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Originally Posted by sandruzzo View Post
Maybe we can "only" change 8 pixel per line which will give us a lots of colors on screen, and use other for bobs... We can use dual playfield for that, so we can speed up a lot bobs', and having sprites as plyers with 16 colors..
Oh, I'm all for using the copper to lots of colour reloading, I was merely pointing out that the idea posted by ImmortalA1000 was technically not possible.

The idea of a game using 8 colours/scanline copper reloads sounds rather interesting. I believe the OCS version of the game Universe did something like this to achieve a psuedo-256 colour mode (with the actual number of colours being dependent on the screen shown).
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Old 20 November 2018, 15:41   #189
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It's up to use to use the right and better display mode: or dualplayfiels or 32 colors mode. whatever will be, with copper we can add a lot of colors
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Old 02 December 2018, 08:21   #190
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Originally Posted by ImmortalA1000 View Post
Was there ever game that came close to the parallax polish of Salamander 1986 coin op on Amiga? Was there ever a decent 64 colour Amiga game? How many games use most of the Amiga chipset so well as Shadow of the Beast 1 overground level? (not even the following levels of Beast 1 that's what).
And there are reasons for that. And the main reason is the Blitter, which gets slower and slower with more colours (=bitplanes) used.

It's nice to have 32 colors, but if I had the choice, I'd rather go for a better framerate (50fps) and still have enough objects on screen.

I concur, though, that the Amiga could have done better if its chipset had been used more.
It's not the wonder machine for action games that some people want to make it, though.
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Old 12 December 2018, 22:10   #191
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Ruff'n tumble engine would have been great for a metal slug conversion on amiga 500..
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