Discussion about the cost and value of new Amiga games and whether they are overcharged or not!

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by AMike

No one of you is the position to judge which price is fair or not. You have no idea about effort and costs. This is an insolence that you are not entitled to, and you should show more respect. The whole thread ist a slap in the face of the developers. We are in a free market where every one can choose what he wants to buy or not. I would not work for that money.

And last but not least, If you think the Amiga developers are gettin rich please go ahead and follow their route. It's only a matter of choice.

Ok, a few points here.

Firstly, this debate is purely about the price of the digital download that a certain developer has set, which is virtually the same as the physical price... as you can see from this post; it's definitely not the "norm"; and other developers have also said the same in this thread.

As BippyM has mentioned; there is no additional cost with also offering a "digital download". The game has already been created; this is a another way to get more money, as not everybody will want boxed rubbish. Nothing wrong with that and it's an advantage; not a hindrance!!!

I have purchased all games in the "Reshoot" series thus far

Yes, people can choose whether to purchase or not... no shit Sherlock.

Developers are definitely free to set their own prices... but on the other hand, consumers are also free to voice their opinion about something if it seems way too pricey. It's called "freedom of speech" and is something that most western countries allow as a basic human right.

As others have mention, see Galahad's post as a good example; anybody expecting to make a career out of creating games on an ancient, 30 year old, niche computer is really fooling themselves. All of the above does not justify taking the biscuit though; and you should expect people / companies to be pulled up about it!!!

Secondly, let's move onto a point that Richard keeps avoiding to answer; amongst others. Fact, this developer and others, get free marketing on all Amiga forums across the world; and that's usually ok.

Considering the above, it's very wrong in my book to then post "snippets" about the game on the forum, but then say "you must read this" knowing full well that the only way to do so is by subscribing to a monthly Patreon site; essentially to get more money.

Surely if you're getting free marketing on all forums; just post the full story... you can't think the above is ok?

I mean; Toni Wilen i.e. the hardest working man in the Amiga community by far; with his 20+ years of WinUAE development (and sharing his code that other emulators use), 24 / 7 bug fixes, improvements, support etc... you would think that after every six months of hard labour when he releases a new stable release, he might possibly mention that people could donate but no, never...

Myself, besides the things I've listed here in this post... regarding my collection, that I've worked very hard on for over 15 years now and given away for free; do you see me asking for donations with every Update Pack?

No; and if Toni or myself did, what your opinions of us be? Probably that we are only in it for the money, and not the love of the Amiga or the Amiga community.

I'm not saying everything needs to be free; there's clearly a lot of work involved in many projects; be it Amiga or otherwise. But please don't be taking the piss!!!

Maybe we at EAB (and other forums) need to really rethink about how people selling products can operate? Maybe it's time for these people to not get free advertising anymore; their threads be moved into a particular section and they pay a fee for such a privilege; which helps hosting costs etc.?

This would bring things inline with other "selling" websites; be it eBay / Facebook / Gumtree / SpareRooms etc...

To be totally honest; really don't want to go down this path as I know it would affect the many numerous / honest / decent developers who produced hardware and software at reasonable / realistic prices...

Anyway, something I will discuss with EAB's Admin / GMods / Mods

[BippyM]

Imagine if RCK enforced a fee to use eab?!

[Predseda]

This thread is sick.

[Retro-Nerd]

If you mean that it shows the real character of some people, then yes. Sadly a prime example how some people behave and don't get it at all. Some good responses from the moderation here. Honest and to the point.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Predseda

This thread is sick.

What the hell are you talking about Predseda? Have you actually read / understood everything in this thread? I doubt it...

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

If you mean that it shows the real character of some people, then yes. Sadly a prime example how some people behave and don't get it at all. Some good responses from the moderation here. Honest and to the point.

Thank you Retro.

Honesty and openness is the key here, and I don't feel that the moderation team on EAB are bending the truth in any way what-so-ever... as I said in a previous post; the facts / prices / comparisons with other products on the Amiga market don't lie.

So, I say the moderation team have presented facts; which certain people refuse to respond to or acknowledge... I can't imagine why though?

Yes ok, it's gone a little nasty, but that was never anybody's intension... sometimes that's how thing go when dealing with issues like this.

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

So I'll spend 1000 hours creating and developing a game for free for people to digitally download and enjoy.

Sorry, but exactly how does this business model work?

Making Amiga games in 2020 isn't a "business model" at all, unless the purpose of your business is to lose massive amounts of time and money.

New games should be made because people enjoy creating them and giving something to the community to enjoy, much like you did yourself with Rygar & Bomb Jack.

If I could afford it, I would buy all these games, crack them, and upload them to every single Amiga website in the entire world.

[Alpha One]

Originally Posted by Hewitson

If I could afford it, I would buy all these games, crack them, and upload them to every single Amiga website in the entire world.

I think cracking is no longer needed today concerning Amiga Games. :-)
But spreading nowadays releases is a 'no go' and won't help the community - except the games are for free for sure.

[AMike]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Secondly, let's move onto a point that Richard keeps avoiding to answer; amongst others. Fact, this developer and others, get free marketing on all Amiga forums across the world; and that's usually ok.

That's exactly the point - you think that the prices Richard demands are too high, but you hide this behind a general topic title. So be honest with us and yourself and change the thread title to: In my opinion Richard is greedy and the prices of his products are to high." Because that's exactly what you mean and not what the current title is about.

I've had similar discussions with him in the past regarding Signature Edition and I didn't like the ratings in the Joker either, but I've accepted his point of view as he accepts mine. That's what a discussion is all about - accepting where the other individual stands and not starting a witch hunt in the biggest english Amiga forum.

Richard does not take money in advance, or promise anything and take money for it. He says this is his product and that is what it costs. This is transparent and fair for everyone, but not this shameful witch hunt here. The market will regulate it, simple as that.

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by AMike

Richard does not take money in advance, or promise anything and take money for it. He says this is his product and that is what it costs. This is transparent and fair for everyone, but not this shameful witch hunt here. The market will regulate it, simple as that.

Exactly this.

[BippyM]

Originally Posted by Hewitson

Making Amiga games in 2020 isn't a "business model" at all, unless the purpose of your business is to lose massive amounts of time and money.

New games should be made because people enjoy creating them and giving something to the community to enjoy, much like you did yourself with Rygar & Bomb Jack.

If I could afford it, I would buy all these games, crack them, and upload them to every single Amiga website in the entire world.

This kind of attitude really does stink though. Cracking anything in this day and age on any old platform is a slap in the face. We are not saying anything should be free, not remotely. We are saying prices should be realistic, and fair.

For me if anyone believes their game deserves to cost xyz, which is double the "average" for the same kind of thing, then let's get a playable demo out there. Half a level.. Put your money where your mouth is! Prove it is worth it.

[malko]

Originally Posted by AMike

[...] He says this is his product and that is what it costs. This is transparent and fair for everyone, [...] . The market will regulate it, simple as that.

+1.

Originally Posted by AMike

[...] but not this shameful witch hunt here [...]

-1. Since when is it a witch hunt when potential customers say "beware your digital-download price is too high. We are not going to buy your product if you keep this price so high".

[spudje]

I have the feeling this thread has been repeating itself more than a couple of times by now. I guess the point has come across. And we have shared our diverse opinions about it. Move on...

[Ian]

Originally Posted by AMike

Richard does not take money in advance, or promise anything and take money for it. He says this is his product and that is what it costs. This is transparent and fair for everyone, but not this shameful witch hunt here. The market will regulate it, simple as that.

True this thread was maybe ill advised, but Richard does not contribute to this forum in any meaningful way, and uses it as an advertising platform.

He cannot take criticism, constructive or otherwise, and is too defensive. He's why he probably posted over at A1k to rouse the rabble about the current "injustice" he's facing.

I really do not care about what he charges, as I have no intention of ever playing the games he makes, but I do care about the EAB and people taking advantage without contributing.

I have no problem with devs advertising their stuff as long as they are active members, which most are.

But given Richards response to criticism, he really should consider just making a blog and disabling the comments.

Maybe it's time Richard is given his own thread, and all his content goes in there, much like all the other people that just use this site to advertise their stuff.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by spudje

I have the feeling this thread has been repeating itself more than a couple of times by now. I guess the point has come across. And we have shared our diverse opinions about it. Move on...

I agree, nothing good will come from continuing this any further, so I will close this now.

[DamienD]

Ok, I'm cool with this being closed as everyone has made their points now...

...but I did really want Richard to reply to my post here