Dual Playfield - Was it avoided because of speed or colors or something else?

[lmimmfn]

Originally Posted by Tigerskunk

When Inviyya was still dual playfield I did that. And thought I had the most clever idea ever that no one else ever thought about before..

You can even see this in action in this video:
[ Show youtube player ]

The blue enemies are in the background layer.

I'm still not understanding this ?, in Dublin playfield on OCS there's 6 bitplanes but its split into 2 3 bit planes per field so 8 colours each with colour 0 being transparent on the foreground field limiting it's colours to 7 in total.
On top of that you can use sprites to use the full 16 colours.
What palette in your video are the bobs using? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding how dual plsy field works on the Amiga, as I said above and my understanding is 2x3 bitplsnes on OCS which really is using 6 bitpkanes but the colours are duplicated to prevent generating new colours as the fields overlap?

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by lmimmfn

I'm still not understanding this ?, in Dublin playfield on OCS there's 6 bitplanes but its split into 2 3 bit planes per field so 8 colours each with colour 0 being transparent on the foreground field limiting it's colours to 7 in total.
On top of that you can use sprites to use the full 16 colours.
What palette in your video are the bobs using? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding how dual plsy field works on the Amiga, as I said above and my understanding is 2x3 bitplsnes on OCS which really is using 6 bitpkanes but the colours are duplicated to prevent generating new colours as the fields overlap?

You are thinking too complicated, my friend..
With this little trick, you just blit into the background instead of the foreground layer, and use its colors. The trick is to make it look like the object is belonging to the foreground.
But if you watch my video, you will see that the blue enemies are always behind the other ones.

If you for instance only use 4 colors in the background, you have 4 independent colors for spare that way.
Can make a huge difference in a Dual Playfield game.

[DanScott]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

It is a Megadrive game ! I would'nt be surprised that the MD version is the originam one and the Amiga a port.

Nope, we developed the Amiga and MD versions side by side in tandem

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by DanScott

Nope, we developed the Amiga and MD versions side by side in tandem

That game does wonders with DPF mode.

Chapeau, Dan...

[saimon69]

Wonder Dog and Chuck Jr do share the same base engine? At a first glance would seem so

[lionagony]

Originally Posted by saimon69

Wonder Dog and Chuck Jr do share the same base engine? At a first glance would seem so

Yup, from HOL https://amiga.abime.net/games/view/c...i-son-of-chuck "The game engine that was used for the Amiga version of Chuck Rock 2 would later be used as a basis for the Amiga version of Wonderdog. From author Dan Scott: "Wonderdog was coded for Mega-CD, and then Chuck Rock 2 for Megadrive/Mega-CD was based around that engine. I then started Chuck Rock 2 on Amiga, and after, we decided to convert Wonderdog to amiga too." It is interesting to note that it is the exact opposite of what happened on Sega platforms (Chuck Rock 2 using the engine used originally for Wonderdog)."

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by DanScott

Nope, we developed the Amiga and MD versions side by side in tandem

Thanks you for the précision. Always nice to have this kind of info by insiders.

Just a question, was it ever thought to make the CD32 version AGA ? (Same thing for Wonderdog).
I Ask because Core did make an AGA version of Heimdall 2 and even AGA only games (Banshee and Skeleton Krew).

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by Tsak

Definitely Dual Playfield stresses a lot the art workload. Especially in regards to color usage and palettes. Other than 7 colors per layer being indeed quite restrictive, I think choosing the colors extremely carefully in the first place can make all the difference.

Was Exactkly thinking at carefully chosen palettes when i seen this Amstrad Castlevania inspired game (Mighty Castle Adventure), they are using the four color high res mode, but the colors chosen are so good that you might forget that!





[ Show youtube player ]

[lionagony]

Originally Posted by saimon69

Was Exactkly thinking at carefully chosen palettes when i seen this Amstrad Castlevania inspired game (Mighty Castle Adventure), they are using the four color high res mode, but the colors chosen are so good that you might forget that!

Yeah, that use of 4 colors looks great. Being color restricted also lends itself to silhouette type games like we discussed in this thread https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=115927 The Amiga could have had or could still have a whole genre of games looking like modern examples Return, Limbo, or parts of Inside with only a few colours.

[saimon69]

I might just cite Blade Warrior, a "chinese shadow teather" graphic game
[ Show youtube player ]

[Codetapper]

Originally Posted by lionagony

As a non coder but an avid gamer I know that most of the Amiga's most visually impressive OCS/ECS games are in dual playfield, SOTB, Agony, Lionheart, Jim Power, Kid Chaos, Mr Nutz, Elfmania etc.

Elfmania doesn't use dual playfield mode btw, it's 32 colours (5 bitplanes) and sprites for the panel at the top and some extra effects.

[lionagony]

Originally Posted by saimon69

I might just cite Blade Warrior, a "chinese shadow teather" graphic game
[ Show youtube player ]

Yes, and did you see what Tsak just posted in the other thread https://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p...0&postcount=39 amazing!

[lionagony]

Originally Posted by Codetapper

Elfmania doesn't use dual playfield mode btw, it's 32 colours (5 bitplanes) and sprites for the panel at the top and some extra effects.

Wow, really, I always assumed it used dual playfield because of all the line scrolling and movement in the back but yeah I guess that doesn't make sense when it's so colourful. I know a lot of people would love if you started your Sprite Tricks series back up, I go back and reference those all the time. Elfmania would be a prime first candidate. Would also love to read the inner workings behind Lionheart and Mr Nutz. If you ever had the time in the future it would be really appreciated.

[rothers]

Originally Posted by lionagony

Wow, really, I always assumed it used dual playfield because of all the line scrolling and movement in the back but yeah I guess that doesn't make sense when it's so colourful. I know a lot of people would love if you started your Sprite Tricks series back up, I go back and reference those all the time. Elfmania would be a prime first candidate. Would also love to read the inner workings behind Lionheart and Mr Nutz. If you ever had the time in the future it would be really appreciated.

I'd like to see a breakdown of how Elfmania works, it's a very strange setup.

[Tigerskunk]

Just had a short look at it once again, and I think Elfmania is using sprites for those little background parallax effects. They are never seen over the whole screen if they are solid elements.

The stars in the winter village stage are, but that's just repositioning every line.
You can see that the stars are below the HUD, so my guess is that the HUD is done with sprites as well. But I think there is maybe a BOB for the faces and the vs box in the center added there. Otherwise it would not work. Had anybody checked that with UAE debugger?

[DanScott]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Just a question, was it ever thought to make the CD32 version AGA ? (Same thing for Wonderdog).
I Ask because Core did make an AGA version of Heimdall 2 and even AGA only games (Banshee and Skeleton Krew).

Yeah, I would have loved to have done a specific AGA version of Chuck Rock 2.

It would have been extremely close to the MD version, but unfortunately we were moving away from Amiga development at this time (my next project after Wonderdog, apart from helping out with some stuff on Blastar, was a Mega CD game, BC Racers)

[lionagony]

Originally Posted by DanScott

Yeah, I would have loved to have done a specific AGA version of Chuck Rock 2.

It would have been extremely close to the MD version, but unfortunately we were moving away from Amiga development at this time (my next project after Wonderdog, apart from helping out with some stuff on Blastar, was a Mega CD game, BC Racers)

I've been playing through Chuck Rock 2 for the first time (great game BTW) and in line with this topic wondered why you didn't add the offset strips of parallax to the background like the MD version? Was that because it would negatively affect the speed? I actually think there are a bunch of instances where the Amiga version is already better than the MD one. The waterfall level for sure, I love the waterfalls in the background, are those sprites? Also the first level looks better imo with the front rock parallax and the bigger houses. I still have the last few levels to get through, hopefully tonight.

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by DanScott

Yeah, I would have loved to have done a specific AGA version of Chuck Rock 2.

It would have been extremely close to the MD version, but unfortunately we were moving away from Amiga development at this time (my next project after Wonderdog, apart from helping out with some stuff on Blastar, was a Mega CD game, BC Racers)

Can I go slightly off topic here. I can see that BC racers is using the new ”mode 7”-esque graphics mode that was only available on the Mega-CD add on and Later the 32X.
Market reception for those wasnt exactly great and also, the game was released before the 32x came out, so what was the marketing strategy there. Seems MegaCD wasnt a great large market to aim for?
Any memories of what was said at the time?

[DanScott]

Originally Posted by lionagony

the waterfalls in the background, are those sprites?

Well spotted!! I forgot about those... yes, that's another place I used the 2 spare hardware sprites

[DanScott]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

Can I go slightly off topic here. I can see that BC racers is using the new ”mode 7”-esque graphics mode that was only available on the Mega-CD add on and Later the 32X.
Market reception for those wasnt exactly great and also, the game was released before the 32x came out, so what was the marketing strategy there. Seems MegaCD wasnt a great large market to aim for?
Any memories of what was said at the time?

My memories from that particular time (1994 ish..) are all a bit hazy. I believe that we'd already had a couple of other successful Mega-CD games (eg.. Wonder Dog, Thunderhawk etc..)

I guess the strategy at the time, was probably believing that maybe they would become popular systems. Then PlayStation came along...