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Old 19 July 2017, 16:03   #41
Shatterhand
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My thread was more about knowing if the CDTV version was really faster.

Now that I already know its not, you guys feel free to bash Xenon 2 as much as you want it hehehehehe

I *never* liked Xenon 2 even when I first played it back at the time. I think even the first game is better than it (no backward scrolling, no "wrong path" to get, no stupid shop to buy weapons, better framerate/speed... level design is still rather boring, but at least by trying to be simple it fairs a bit better).... problem is, as I usually say, I came from a background (owning an MSX system before getting my hands on an Amiga) that I had played lots of japanese shmups before owning an Amiga.

Aleste 2 and Space Manbow on MSX trump everything the Amiga has to offer in terms of shoot'em ups. If we consider gameplay/design only (obviously, as graphically the MSX can't compete with an Amiga - even though the MSX2+ does some stuff an ECS Amiga can't), I think the only games that get close are Apidya and Mega Typhoon (With Uridium 2 being an amazing game but plays very differently from regular shoot'em ups).

So when I first got an Amiga, while I was amazed with stuff like Another World and Lotus 2, I *really* missed the shoot'em ups, which has always been my fav genre of videogames
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Old 19 July 2017, 16:10   #42
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Some games age better than others, back then you had lower frame-rates and harder gameplay, but we were used to it so adjusted accordingly, so playing in today's world alot of games seem worse than the enjoyment that we may have gotten from them at the time, doesn't mean they were a waste of money, just some games seem 'unplayable' i hate to use that phrase because its overused, its technically not 'unplayable', but some people seem to think its not playable because its not 60fps.

Personally i was never good at the game, i didn't blame that on the fps though, just my skills!

Xenon 2 was more a showcase game though, along with Shadow of the beast, stick them on to wow your mates, but don't let them play for more than a minute!
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Old 19 July 2017, 16:13   #43
Shatterhand
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Man, sorry, but when Xenon 2 came out I was playing this:

[ Show youtube player ]

and this:

[ Show youtube player ]

Sorry, Xenon 2 never stood a chance, not even back at the day.
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Old 19 July 2017, 16:24   #44
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It's poorly designed in terms of gameplay/game mechanics/levels. The technically bad execution is only on top of that. Gods e.g. was technically bad too, but it has a good game core which makes fun. Still today.
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Old 19 July 2017, 16:33   #45
Akira
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shatterhand View Post
I came from a background (owning an MSX system before getting my hands on an Amiga)
You are starting to sound like Miggy4eva, shush up about the MSX!
It makes your comparison be fanboyistic. Let's compare Amiga games with Amiga games. Which brings me to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amigajay View Post
back then you had lower frame-rates and harder gameplay
Back then when Xenon 2 came out (1989), you had much better frame rates and better gameplay on games of the same genre. Do not confuse bad game design with hard-difficulty game design done on purpose, the Bitmap Bros had no idea what they were doing with this game.

Doesn't get any better than Battle Squadron to compare like for like:

[ Show youtube player ]

[ Show youtube player ]

Hilarious
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Old 19 July 2017, 16:42   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shatterhand View Post
Man, sorry, but when Xenon 2 came out I was playing this:

[ Show youtube player ]

and this:

[ Show youtube player ]

Sorry, Xenon 2 never stood a chance, not even back at the day.
When I first played Xenon 2, I was playing this:

[ Show youtube player ]

So you can understand why I was so excited
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Old 19 July 2017, 16:52   #47
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When I first played Xenon 2, I was playing this:
Yes, I understand. Poor you!
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Old 20 July 2017, 02:39   #48
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Quote:
You are starting to sound like Miggy4eva, shush up about the MSX!
It makes your comparison be fanboyistic. Let's compare Amiga games with Amiga games. Which brings me to:
ITS BECAUSE THE MSX IS BETTER THAN YOUR AMIGA THINGS have you seen the MSX Street FIghter 2 game way better than what Amiga has and it runs at 180 fps with real speech its amazing.....

I'll change my name to MSX4eva

ahem.


I had already mentioned Battle Squadron somewhere in the topic. Battle Squadron was actually released a couple of months earlier than Xenon 2 (at least that what reviews dates lead me to believe). Hybris is older and , honestly, I can't see how Xenon 2 could compare better. The graphics are good, the game is smooth, the soundtrack is great (though I hate how the melody is silenced for you shots sfx, this was really dumb), but mainly the gameplay is pretty solid.... it does feel a lot like the earlier Toaplan shmups, or Terra Cresta... It really feels like an arcade game. It's not a incredibly fantastic game by any means, but it's solid, well done and fun to play.

It looks like the kid who made it (it's the same guy who later made Battle Squadron, and he was really a kid by then) had spent some time at the arcades and learned one thing or two about shmups... unlike the Bitmap Brothers.
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Old 31 July 2017, 01:41   #49
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Shatterhand, I actually had a similar history to you, but draw a different conclusion. I went from a Sega Master System to Amiga, and one of my greatest achievements was finally beating Power Strike, the SMS version of Aleste, with out cheating. Bastard hard game and an incredible test of skill.

But I still rather liked Xenon 2. Although I got it as a Kixx budget title, and had to get a replacement disc for it all the same, as it didn't work at first. I ended up with a pre-release version, which actually had better music than the apparently commercial release, which I sent to someone here for adfing, wonder what happened to that? Anyway!

The reason I rather liked it is because Xenon 2 isn't really a Shoot Em Up in the same way Aleste is. It's more a little slice of feeling that's wrapped around an SEU engine. The music, the characters, the Power Up building... none of it is really about blasting or skill, but rather a little vignette that you play through, it's an exercise in Bitmap Bros style above all else. You either like it or you don't, and I quite liked it.

The slow pace was thus a good fit because you were really there not to get adrenaline soaked twitch based thrills, but to sit back and soak up the atmosphere. In that sense it's very much like Shadow of the Beast; not a great game, more an experience.

Some of that feeling likely came from the hype, as the game was hyped everywhere; but it did genuinely have a unique character... indeed I played the SMS release before the Amiga version too, and it still felt different then. Not brilliant again, just idly charming.

Speedball 2 on the other hand... it was a genuinely brilliant game, if you had other people to play it against. The AI is pretty dull, you can work out very simple ways to smash it over and over again, but the amount of different scoring mechanisms, the combat, and the sheer pace all expanded into constantly shifting gameplay when there was a Player 2 present. Like Sensi Soccer, it was a game which had enormous depth beneath its simple surface.

And it too had the Bitmap style, which made it feel special again. Uridium etc had teased the sense of metallic-design before the Amiga, but everyone who saw that fist punch through the steel wall for the first time felt that thrill that here was a machine that could finally really make it look awesome... hence why the first Xenon was the basis for Amiga based arcades too. The Bitmaps just nailed that look.
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Old 31 July 2017, 02:35   #50
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Unfortunately part of the "Bitmap Brothers style" is slow screen updates.
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Old 09 August 2017, 11:44   #51
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Not an image of the CD version but truly memorable for Bomb the Base

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/scuz..._080817_01.jpg

Two BBs for the price of one [ Bitmap Bros and Bomb d Base ]

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Old 10 August 2017, 01:01   #52
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I have pretty much outright ignored the MSX until tonight and then reading this thread made me have a look!

I decided to try a bit of emulation and I am blown away

The MSX is actually quite good, yes judging by an emulator. I am tempted to find a working machine now play with
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Old 10 August 2017, 05:30   #53
Shatterhand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectroBlaster View Post
I have pretty much outright ignored the MSX until tonight and then reading this thread made me have a look!

I decided to try a bit of emulation and I am blown away

The MSX is actually quite good, yes judging by an emulator. I am tempted to find a working machine now play with
There's an MSX thread around here somewhere in the off-topic season.

And it you need any tips, I'll be glad to help

BEST 8 BITS MACHINE EVER C64 IS NO MATCH.

Ahem.

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Old 10 August 2017, 12:48   #54
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When you say MSX are you perhaps talking about one of these....

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz228.htm

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz261.htm

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz344.htm

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz409.htm

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz158.htm

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz212.htm

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz338.htm

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz296.htm

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz211.htm

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz342.htm

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz333.htm

Yes, they are like so wonderful I never use any of them. I would prefer to use my C116

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz23.htm

Which is what they feel like. And sorry I do not concur given that to have a successful product you also need the backup of like endless games, cartridges, sofware, diskdrives etc. I have like a room full of C64 kit but the MSX well... maybe a dozen or so games. I would say the computers were fine but sadly the cupboard is bare of stuff to do with it. And so they stay in their boxes never to be used.

By the way if you are talking about another MSX subject then I'm sorry. It's the only MSX thing I relate to.

Come to think of it this was a much better machine than the MSX. Similar but not compatible sadly.

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz244.htm

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