New amiga games... A500 OCS/ECS or A1200 AGA ?

[aszu]

i'd go for a 1mb a500 and later on, if possible, for a stock a1200

[Cylon]

Yeah, dunno where this idea came from, a stock a500 has 1meg. Every good game back in the days needed a 501 expansion.
So, make it a A1200 with some megs FastRAM. ;-)

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by ajk

@Akira

It's not about stuff not fitting in memory, but because Chip RAM really cripples the 020 speed-wise. The Fast RAM should be there not to allow for sloppy coding, but to properly take advantage of the A1200. That would make for spectacular stuff in the hands of proficient coders

Proficient coders can make spectacular stuff on Commodore 64s and Amiga 500s without add-ons, so if they need the extra RAM, they are not as proficient
There's many OCS/ECS limit-pushing games, but no AGA ones. AGA was short-lived and nobody really pushed the limits of the stock hardware too much.

[DanScott]

I'd agree with Akira here

If I was going to do something for A1200, it would definitely be 2mb chip base machine.

Of course I would make something that is HD installable too, but I certainly wouldn't find it necessary to have any fast RAM to push the basic hardware to the max.

[McTrinsic]

Does it have to be Aga??

When it's about more power please don't forget the ECS-folks with RTG.

I mean like a 020@25 with 2MB and 640xsomething might as well be an A2000 with accelerator and Piccolo gfx.

Cheers,
McT

[DanScott]

But the whole idea is I want to target either a base A500 (maybe with 512k extra memory that was pretty standard after 1989)

Or a base A1200

Accelerators and funky graphics cards just don't excite me like a copper & blitter & hardware sprites

[phx]

Originally Posted by DanScott

Accelerators and funky graphics cards just don't excite me like a copper & blitter & hardware sprites

Right. Then development wouldn't feel much different to a standard PC game.

I vote for 500, because its limitations increase the chances to get the game ever finished. A technically perfect AGA game is certainly nice, but you will have a lot of work to fulfill all expectations there. Too many projects fail, because they wanted too much.

[Amiga1992]

And phx is a great example of someone making cool stuff that runs on A500! Follow his example and don't fall easy prey to RTG, accelerators, Fast RAM and other unnecessary flashy things Stick to stock hardware, make it run there or don't bother.

[Cylon]

Doesn't sound like a real challenge to me making the 5000th A500 game, done by a pro, especially everything is known to the bone of this machine. AGA on the other hand might have some tricks up its sleeve waiting to get uncovered. ;-)

[Gzegzolka]

First of all - I use winuae, so I do not mind if will be for A500 or A1200 as long as I could buy it and play from adf files. You should pick what You like and what You are good at, so You will know You could finish it. Asking on forum is good idea, but You should remember how diverse community is here and that You will not fulfill everybody wishes (simple - it will be too much).
I think that Tanks Furry is good example that there are still people interested in new high quality amiga games. And whats more important - they could pay for it (it's still to early to have information how much units they sold - but I'm very interested).
My favorite option would be game for A500, but with option to detect extra ram for more details, or game for standard A1200.

[ajk]

@Akira

Again, it's not about the amount of RAM, it's the type of RAM. 1MB of Chip and 1MB of Fast would be interesting but it's an unusual setup for an A1200.

Naturally all of this is just an opinion but if the A500 is considered with a RAM expansion, then the A1200 ought to be also. Otherwise why not target the A1000 with the bare 256k, that should certainly be a challenge, and a rather unexplored avenue

[saimon69]

To me the potential of a stock OCS/ECS machine but with the addition of an hard disk has been barely scratched!

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by ajk

but if the A500 is considered with a RAM expansion, then the A1200 ought to be also.

That's only because 1MB became standard, but 4MB Fast RAM never did, so there's no reason to include it.
I know you were talking about speed and not quantity.

[Amigajay]

I think make it for the CDTV with 2mb ram expansion and joystick adaptor only, and users with black caddys, none of these beige owners! ;-)

[Retro-Nerd]

What Action genre exactly, Dan? A Shmup or a Run'n Gun game? Both would be great though i would prefer the latter. Something like Contra Hard Corps but even more polished.

[crazyc]

I wonder how many people now run unexpanded A1200s?
(Its not a pointed question, I am actually interested in the answer).

With the availability of aca1221s for example, the use of CF hard drives for WHDLOAD (which then pretty much requires 4 meg fastram minimum), and the expandability of the a1200, I would expect most to be running at least a slightly expanded a1200.

If anticipating this did not benefit the game however, then as has been said, just go for base spec, but if it meant something extra could be achieved, I dont think 4 meg of fastram is unrealistic.

But has also been said, do whatever YOU want. I am just pleased to see people writing and releasing new games for my miggy!

And in answer to the original question, I vote a1200 if it allows you to produce something noticeably better/more interesting.

[JudasEZT]

Originally Posted by phx

Right. Then development wouldn't feel much different to a standard PC game.

I vote for 500, because its limitations increase the chances to get the game ever finished. A technically perfect AGA game is certainly nice, but you will have a lot of work to fulfill all expectations there. Too many projects fail, because they wanted too much.

Thats exactly my point of view.

An specific game for a plain A1200 game would be very interesting to see. Yet maybe would provoke the design be less focused and less retro.. chances of finishing would decrease if the goals get diffused.. thats the voice of experience.

At this moment, something upper to a A1200 I think is not very interesting nor really Amiga-retrogaming stuff. Maybe in future times will be, who knows.

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by Akira

That's only because 1MB became standard, but 4MB Fast RAM never did, so there's no reason to include it.
I know you were talking about speed and not quantity.

Well...First ever AGA Amiga the world saw shipped with the following specs: 040 CPU, 2MB Chip 4MB FastRAM. ��

Anyway, this discussion is quite irrelevant. The important thing is that the Dev can find the strength and motivation to finish the project. As we all know, starting projects is real easy, finish a polished, fun game that pushes the hardware to its limits.... is rare and will require the Dev to "walk the extra mile". EDIT: --> (Whatever target platform he chooses for his project) <--
But just out of curiosity, you say this a lot; that AGA games have barely scratched the surface of what's possible.. What magic is it you envision when you repeat this..
What is it about games like SlamTilt, SuperStardust, Banshee, Street racer, GeneticSpecies...etc.... that barely scratch the surface of what a vanilla A1200 can do?

[Meshuggah]

I you are after the widest audience, go with a basic 500 with expansion RAM. That's the most common hardware around due to the amount of units being sold back in the day.
Your game could still be hdd installable and take advantage of aga if available, nothings impossible.

[Adrian Browne]

Many of us have a1200's too- its the aga machine of choice as its the most affordable-
Stock a1200 gets my vote; if that proves to be too much work then aim for a 1 meg A500.