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Old 20 October 2018, 21:58   #21
DamienD
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I love the Amiga versions; and as people have already mentioned, at the time of release they were awesome.

I remember at this time seeing the PC versions and thinking; no comparison...

Anyway, seems everyone is forgetting about the FM Towns versions which are very cool indeed

[FM TOWNS] The Secret of Monkey Island:

[ Show youtube player ]

[FM TOWNS] Monkey Island 2 - LeChuck's Revenge:

[ Show youtube player ]
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Old 20 October 2018, 22:33   #22
DrBong
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Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
I strongly disagree with everyone who has suggested Monkey Island 1 & 2. The Amiga versions of these games were crap!
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Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
To clear things up, I am NOT saying the games were crap. Both games are brilliant!

But the graphics are so much better on the PC. The Amiga versions were not much better than Sierra's Amiga ports in my opinion. No copper usage for example.
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Originally Posted by Amigajay View Post
And you did you say the Amiga versions were crap, it's in your first post!
Yep, but the point Hewitson is trying to make is that he generally likes the MI games......but thinks that the Amiga release in each case is a poor man's PC conversion, much like Sierra's PC ports of similar games to the Amiga. It really does help to closely read what people actually post and to put emotion aside - but I'm sure he was hoping to get people to bite and he certainly achieved that, didn't he!

@Hewitson
You managed another strong response in this latest "contentious" thread designed to evoke/provoke discussion! I think you're being a bit harsh, though, equating Lucasfilm's MI games to Sierra's mundane PC ports of their point 'n' click adventures to the Amiga. Sierra were crap for several years on the Amiga and couldn't even manage a good fist of games when they had a second go of it with their Amiga conversions of all the "enhanced" editions of King's Quest, Leisure Suit Larry etc. (see HERE). These "enhanced" editions were as piss-poor as the original Ami conversions, if you ask me!

Lucasfilm definitely put a decent effort into the OCS/ECS conversions of the MI games, and probably would've given the PC a better run for its money (well, for gfx anyway) if AGA machines had been released by C= 2 years earlier like they should've. Moot point, I know, coz it didn't happen.

Still, quite a good effort by Lucasfilm considering pragmatic stuff like publisher deadlines that had to be dealt with by the devs. Perhaps an even better effort by the devs when you factor in that the Amiga was pretty much dead in the water in the U.S. by 1991/92, with the A500/1000 looking decidedly long in the tooth compared to the VFM bells 'n' whistles PCs flooding the American market (which, incidentally, were at least 25-50% more expensive everywhere else in the world!).

In the end, Lucasfilm probably went above and beyond to get such decent Ami conversions of the MI games done for the captive Euro market. God knows they weren't gonna break any records with Amiga sales in North America or the tiny Aussie/NZ markets!

Last edited by DrBong; 20 October 2018 at 23:18. Reason: Fixed typos!
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Old 20 October 2018, 23:03   #23
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. It really does help to closely read what people actually post and to put emotion aside
Dude, - like, I totally agree with the rest of your post but...

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Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
I strongly disagree with everyone who has suggested Monkey Island 1 & 2. The Amiga versions of these games were crap!
How closely do I have to read this s#!t before I understand what he's really trying to say?
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Old 20 October 2018, 23:03   #24
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Originally Posted by donnie View Post
.

while mt-32 might be superior technically, it sounds like a cheap o soundtrack.

.



The truth is there is no comparison, the PC had to wait for Soundblaster Awe64 to match the Amiga in sound department. The first system that I played and said, OK, this has better sound than the Amiga was PS1 and still the Amiga wasn't far.
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Old 20 October 2018, 23:10   #25
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How closely do I have to read this s#!t before I understand what he's really trying to say?
I hear ya, but it's not like this is Hewitson's first rodeo on EAB! Good coffee or alcohol may help when reading threads like this! He's not known for having "mainstream" opinions, though, and there's definitely method in his madness if you track his posts in this thread.....

Last edited by DrBong; 20 October 2018 at 23:16.
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Old 20 October 2018, 23:17   #26
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I hear ya, but it's not like this is Hewitson's first rodeo on EAB! Good coffee or alcohol may help when reading threads like this! He's not known for having "mainstream" opinions, though, and there's definitely method in his madness if you track his posts in this thread.....
aye
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Old 20 October 2018, 23:22   #27
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The Amiga 32 colour versions still looks quite a bit better than the IBM-PC EGA 16 colour palette.

I think Chris Huelsbeck did a great job on the soundtrack considering the material he had to work with in order to piece together Michael Land's iMUSE MIDI soundtrack.

I am unsure why someone would state that its not up to standard. If one is to use WHDLoad or install it to HDD it is fine. It potentially could be a bit slow. Then again on a period IBM-PC it was still quite slow anyway. I think if one was to go back to what a standard PC was at the time, I would still consider the Amiga version to be better.

As with the IBM-PC original still required quite a higher spec system for the VGA version to be used.

Spec to cost of computer ratio for the period, still think the Amiga release is superior.

Monkey Island 2 onward, when IBM-PCs started to become cheaper around 1992 and later is where the IBM-PC version could be considered superior.

The Amiga version is still good though. I think the soundtrack was still done very well considering. Still not as good as the update done to the iMUSE sound system in Monkey Island 2, definitely worked better with the native MIDI sound devices.

Both games are definitely very playable as they are converted to the Amiga. Definitely a lot better effort than the Sierra ported games.

Last edited by niobyte; 20 October 2018 at 23:56.
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Old 21 October 2018, 01:03   #28
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For me, almost any old PC games on 386 looked like crap, even on VGA.
Back at the time I was owner of C64, but had friends both with Amiga's and PC.
The pixels on PC were HUUUGEE, while on Amiga (OCS), everything looked so smooth. Maybe because of the TV, that kind of blurred graphics, but then again, I had a friend that had Commodore monitor, and it was smooth.

That was the big thing for me, back in the day (and even now). It's not just number of colors, but also the size of the Pixel. On PC, it hurts eyes to look at that mess, while on Amiga, looked almost like antialiased.
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Old 21 October 2018, 01:40   #29
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That was the big thing for me, back in the day (and even now). It's not just number of colors, but also the size of the Pixel. On PC, it hurts eyes to look at that mess, while on Amiga, looked almost like antialiased.

this is true, the AMiga looked antialised but is because the type of the AMiga monitor used,1084s,philips CM8833
f you connect the microvitec 1438 , the Amiga pixels looks like a PC
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Old 21 October 2018, 10:20   #30
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There actually are Sierra Amiga games that are worth playing: Larry 1-2, Space Quest 2-3, King's Quest 6. I think everything else from them is crap.

Whereas pretty much all of Lucas point'n'clicks on Amiga are solid. I guess Indy 4 is a little slow in places.

And the iMuse system is a bit messy on Amiga. They didn't REALLY ever learn to deal with only 4 audio channels. Thankfully Chris Hulsbeck was there for Monkey1 soundtrack.
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Old 21 October 2018, 10:51   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DamienD View Post
I love the Amiga versions; and as people have already mentioned, at the time of release they were awesome.
[...]
A W E S O M E !



Quote:
Originally Posted by Decker View Post
There actually are Sierra Amiga games that are worth playing: Larry 1-2, Space Quest 2-3, King's Quest 6. [...]
Police quest, Conquest of Camelot, Codename Iceman, etc.
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Old 21 October 2018, 13:39   #32
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Police quest
There you go, forgot PQ1-2! So when you think about it, Sierra isn't that bad on Amiga. But Lucas had a better hitrate with VGA era games. Whereas Sierra simply said f*ck it.

Regarding Monkey 1, it's all well and good posting VGA/Roland/CD-Rom clips of the game. But on release, the reality for most PC gamers was EGA or VGA and PC Speaker, Adlib or luxurious Soundblaster audio. Regardless of what you had back then, none of it makes the Amiga version bad.
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Old 21 October 2018, 15:52   #33
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There you go, forgot PQ1-2! So when you think about it, Sierra isn't that bad on Amiga. But Lucas had a better hitrate with VGA era games. Whereas Sierra simply said f*ck it.
I agree with you that the GFX are far from transcendent. The same observation apply for the Space Quest & Larry series. In fact almost all Sierra games are equal according to the graphical view angle. Therefore I don't understand how you can say the Space Quest II is OK but not the Police Quest, nor the King's Quest...

(SQII 1988)

(PQI 1987)

(KQII 1988)

(LSLI 1988)

In my point of view, what made them great games, is the the attention that has been paid in making them entertaining. And they are.
As example, Police Quest series were designed by police officers (Walls & Gates). Regarding this aspect these games are really good.

But let's return to the topic of Monkey Island (or LucasArt's games)
Also we should not forget that these games came out about four years after the above mentioned Sierra games.

(MI1 1991)

(MI2 1992)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Regarding Monkey 1, it's all well and good posting VGA/Roland/CD-Rom clips of the game. But on release, the reality for most PC gamers was EGA or VGA and PC Speaker, Adlib or luxurious Soundblaster audio. Regardless of what you had back then, none of it makes the Amiga version bad.
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Old 21 October 2018, 16:05   #34
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Originally Posted by niobyte View Post
The Amiga 32 colour versions still looks quite a bit better than the IBM-PC EGA 16 colour palette.

I think Chris Huelsbeck did a great job on the soundtrack considering the material he had to work with in order to piece together Michael Land's iMUSE MIDI soundtrack.

I am unsure why someone would state that its not up to standard. If one is to use WHDLoad or install it to HDD it is fine. It potentially could be a bit slow. Then again on a period IBM-PC it was still quite slow anyway. I think if one was to go back to what a standard PC was at the time, I would still consider the Amiga version to be better.

As with the IBM-PC original still required quite a higher spec system for the VGA version to be used.

Spec to cost of computer ratio for the period, still think the Amiga release is superior.

Monkey Island 2 onward, when IBM-PCs started to become cheaper around 1992 and later is where the IBM-PC version could be considered superior.

The Amiga version is still good though. I think the soundtrack was still done very well considering. Still not as good as the update done to the iMUSE sound system in Monkey Island 2, definitely worked better with the native MIDI sound devices.

Both games are definitely very playable as they are converted to the Amiga. Definitely a lot better effort than the Sierra ported games.
Spot-on! I think it's a bit unfair comparing the standard Amiga conversion of the MI games to non-standard PC set-ups of the period; more so, if you're comparing the Ami conversions to obscure PC set-ups that included expensive and obscure PC sound cards like the Roland MT-32 that very few average gamers had back then.

Quote:
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There actually are Sierra Amiga games that are worth playing: Larry 1-2, Space Quest 2-3, King's Quest 6. I think everything else from them is crap.
Sure, there are a few Sierra games worth playing and they got a little better as time went by. The trouble is that *none* of the games they converted in-house were optimised to make the most of the Amiga's abilities because PC was their core market from day 1 and the Amiga never really caught on in the U.S.

King's Quest VI is the glowing exception on the Amiga, though, but only because it was farmed out to UK dev Revolution, who also did beautiful PC conversions of Lure of the Temptress and Beneath a Steel Sky. It would have probably been a very different story if they had farmed out the earlier conversions to some capable devs in the U.S. like Dynamix!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Decker View Post
There you go, forgot PQ1-2! So when you think about it, Sierra isn't that bad on Amiga.
I think you're being a bit generous with Sierra still if you consider what could've been achieved with all their Amiga conversions by simply looking at the class of the King's Quest VI conversion. In 1994, King's Quest VI was an utterly superb conversion considering how old the A500 was by then and how comparatively juiced up standard PCs were by that point!

Quote:
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But Lucas had a better hitrate with VGA era games. Whereas Sierra simply said f*ck it.
Can't agree more here!
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Old 21 October 2018, 17:04   #35
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Where does Delphine fit in with Sierra and Lucasarts?
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Old 21 October 2018, 18:20   #36
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Here's a good comparison - intro and little bit of game play. Mainly PC with different sound/graphics cards (or not. Amiga version at 56:10. To my ears the Amiga version sounds just as good as the best PC versions and graphics are pretty close to VGA.

[ Show youtube player ]

Thank god we're not talking about the Atari ST version (just before the Amiga version - surely it could have sounded better?)

I guess a CD32/1200/4000 version could have been identical to the PC and have equally as good sounds (CD32 talkie version would have been amazing). And if you think value for money - how much was a CD32 v a top end pc?
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Old 21 October 2018, 19:04   #37
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Here's a good comparison - intro and little bit of game play. Mainly PC with different sound/graphics cards (or not. Amiga version at 56:10. To my ears the Amiga version sounds just as good as the best PC versions and graphics are pretty close to VGA.

[ Show youtube player ]

Thank god we're not talking about the Atari ST version (just before the Amiga version - surely it could have sounded better?)

I guess a CD32/1200/4000 version could have been identical to the PC and have equally as good sounds (CD32 talkie version would have been amazing). And if you think value for money - how much was a CD32 v a top end pc?
For sure the AGA versions could have matched the VGA editions and the CD32 version could have had cd audio music (btw there was no talkie of MI until 2009) but we know most US game conversions never used the Amiga to the full, just look at EU/AU adventure games in comparison (Simon, BASS, Inherit, FOTAQ etc).

I still cant believe how badly MI2 sold, “Tim Schafer said that Monkey Island 2 sold 25,000 copies by 2009” doesn’t seem possible to be that low?

Last edited by Amigajay; 21 October 2018 at 19:14.
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Old 21 October 2018, 19:20   #38
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however there is another thing that many Amigans undervalue: the sound.
Amiga has good instruments quality that are real comparend to old Sould Blaster and Adlib card on old PC, but amiga has problem of memory.
In many games you can listen to execellent instruments quality, but sample are very short and then restart ad libitium. On PC you have worst instrument quality, but more long music and various arrangment into che same music to become more long to listen to. In some case there is dinamic music that change what you see on the screen in that moment.

Amiga has very good quality, i repeat , in single instruments, but no memory to build complex music with dinamic arrangment.
On amiga 1200 should be different and use more memory for the sound, but in really often you don't see difference in this case.
For example Indy4 on Amiga has memory problem because use same sample repeated ad libtum, but ok for Amiga 500. Developer should be adapted che engine to use more memory for the sound and add iMuse.

Again, Great quality for single instruments, but music and arrangment lenght not always is very good compared to DOS games like Beneath a Stealk sky: close your eyes and listen to music introduction with Amiga and then with PC. you listen that PC music is more and more complex with various arrangment that in Amiga are not present. Amiga is very good for single instruments quality.
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Old 21 October 2018, 19:36   #39
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Amiga has very good quality, i repeat , in single instruments, but no memory to build complex music with dinamic arrangment.
That is not really true. Sound quality is limited by Paula (8bit with up to 27kHz on OCS) but the Ram limit you mention let the game maker reduce the frequency if needed. Arrangement is not really limited in length but in width (only 4 channels). Ok, a pattern takes some Ram but not as much that you need to limit the arrangement so much.
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Old 21 October 2018, 19:41   #40
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that Monkey Island 2 sold 25,000 copies by 2009” doesn’t seem possible to be that low?
Piracy, surely... In the UK every kid I knew played MI2 and loved it.
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