Indivision ECS problem - Page 2

demolition · 14 August 2013, 22:55

I just tried this, but it didn't solve the problem. After a core reset there is about 90% chance of it outputting 63 Hz and 10% 50 Hz. When it is running 63 Hz and I open the config tool, it says 71,6MHz pixel clock despite the Mode still saying 1.00.
Actually, the problem is worse with the 1.10 firmware. While the percentage of 63Hz output screens is around 90% with 1.10, it seems more like 75% with 1.01.
I also tried setting it to user mode and changing all the parameters a little so it would be custom, but still to no effect.

The Amiga is now running on my new PicoPSU so I think the PSU can be ruled out as I've tried three different PSUs with it now.

After changing the screen mode, did you just open the config tool, press save and then quit without touching anything else?

amigoun · 15 August 2013, 15:09

Unfortunatelly most IndiECS users didnt notice this problem, because they do do not even know that the 50 Hz modes are necessary to have much better smooth graphics in games.
Simmilar problem with IECS is with the beta ShapeShifer Video driver. The driver has problems with the IndiECS initialization which results in that the Shapeshifter screen opens only when you are lucky.

demolition · 15 August 2013, 15:13

On many monitors you might not clearly see the difference until you go into the menus and have it show the active display mode.

Edit: I have no idea how, but now it seems to be working. I cold booted the Amiga about 10 times, and all 10 was into 50 Hz, which it wouldn't do before. It still goes wrong when I open the config tool and quits it again. After the Indivision reset it often comes up in 63 Hz, but a cold boot later it's back to 50 Hz. Still a bit weird, but now it's not so annoying as there is no reason to open the config tool again since it has been set up.

johey · 17 September 2013, 22:15

I am also affected of this feature.

demolition · 17 September 2013, 22:39

I just tried booting up my A600 again to check if it was still working like I thought it was and it wasn't. It booted up in 62.5Hz mode again. Starting the Indivision flash tool and quitting it performed a reset and now it was back in 50 Hz mode.

amigoun · 18 September 2013, 00:52

I think we have to wait for Jens, if he finds a solution for this. In my experience, the refresh rate goes most of the times 62,5Mhz, if you are lucky you get the desired 50 Hz. Temporal solution (quite annoying) is the flash-tool start quit procedure until the scandoubler inicializes itself fine. What is the reason of this problem would probably require some measuring or core analysis.

CrashMidnick · 14 October 2013, 16:04

My indivision ECS lost its settings again.

It seems that It has something to do with cold boot. I do not use anymore the config tool to set it up back to 50HZ (as it is useless) but I only need to do 1 or 2 hard reset and correct settings are back.

I Hope that Jens will find a solution in the future...

demolition · 14 October 2013, 16:06

Sounds like it is behaving just like mine then.

johey · 31 December 2013, 09:12

It's not that the settings are gone, but it seems they are not always loaded after a cold start.

When the machine is powered up, it goes in to either 50 Hz which is my setting, 62.5 Hz which seems to be some default value or sometimes a value close to 50 or 62.5 Hz like 49.7 or 62.3.

Reflashing is not necessary. The settings is still there and will perhaps load correcly next cold start.

One hypothesis which is likely to be completely wrong: Does the indivision ask the monitor for supported values? If so, could it be a timing issue? What if the monitor is not responding in time?

This is so annoying. Please Jens, have a look at this!

rogersyd · 24 April 2014, 00:34

Is this the last word on this issue? The MKII in my A4K does this...

FOL · 24 April 2014, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogersyd

Is this the last word on this issue? The MKII in my A4K does this...

You need to raise a support ticket with manufacturer. As this shows it effects more than one product, so it would need to be confirmed by Jens.

8bitbubsy · 16 January 2016, 22:15

I bought an Indivision ECS from icomp.de a week ago, and I have the same problem as the people in this thread. It loses its 50Hz/62Hz setting *ALL* the time.
It mostly boots to 62Hz when I pick 1.00 mode (it worked at 50Hz for some time) even if I press SAVE before quitting. I've tried to clean the mobo connector then reseat the A604n and the Indivision ECS. Also tried to reflash the 1.01 core.

Additionally, these people have the same problem as me:
- johey, mr.spiv, jimbob, turrican9, demolition, amigoun, CrashMidnick (and rogersyd, but an AGA MK2)
I hope Jens will fix this soon, this is not good!

1.00 (50Hz) mode also has some stuttering every now and then. I know it's not my monitor becuase it's very smooth with the Picasso IV scandoubler.

JanciB · 16 January 2016, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy

I hope Jens will fix this soon, this is not good!

I doubt that. There was a new batch of Indivision ECS recently and I asked Jens if the new batch will have fixed the issue.
He replied that the new batch is the same as the original Indivision ECS and it will have the same problem.
That was in May 2015.

JanciB

mr.spiv · 16 January 2016, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy

I bought an Indivision ECS from icomp.de a week ago, and I have the same problem as the people in this thread. It loses its 50Hz/62Hz setting *ALL* the time.
It mostly boots to 62Hz when I pick 1.00 mode (it worked at 50Hz for some time) even if I press SAVE before quitting. I've tried to clean the mobo connector then reseat the A604n and the Indivision ECS. Also tried to reflash the 1.01 core.

Additionally, these people have the same problem as me:
- johey, jimbob, demolition, amigoun, CrashMidnick (and rogersyd, but an AGA MK2)
I hope Jens will fix this soon, this is not good!

I got the same with my A600.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy

1.00 (50Hz) mode also has some stuttering every now and then. I know it's not my monitor becuase it's very smooth with the Picasso IV scandoubler.

Stuttering is Indivision (TM).. I got the same with all monitors I tried.. I actually spent quite a bit of time and $$$ trying to find decent retro nerding monitors that do 50Hz etc with multiple inputs.

Another annoying issue I got is the flickering on one color component that starts after the system has warmed(?) up..

Seems to be pretty random when "new" hardware works in older host systems these day.

turrican9 · 17 January 2016, 11:28

I have two Indy ECS. One in my Amiga 600 and one in my Amiga 500. Both have the problem where they will forget the 50Hz setting. One was bought last year and the other one just a while ago. They also have ghosting. Seems to be worse in the Amiga 500.

I recently bought two BenQ BL702A monitors. Connecting these to the RGB port with RGB to VGA adapter seems to be the perfect solution. No ghosting and perfect scrolling. With these monitors you don't need a scandoubler.

At least the Indy ECS has a 50Hz setting. It will also give you the correct PAL aspect ratio (720x567 PAL.) out of the box, so the games will show properly. The Indy AGA MK2 on the other hand is missing a proper 50Hz mode. You can finetune it, but it will never be perfect. Also, to get proper aspect ratio you need to make a custom resolution of 720x567 for PAL (You also need to type in 667x283 for overscan, to get all games to show correctly). Not user friendly. All the standard resolutions that comes with the config tool are wrong aspect ratio.

8bitbubsy · 17 January 2016, 11:53

Yeah, Indivision seems to be way less professional than I thought.
The ghosting most likely comes from the non-shielded VGA cable from the Indivision to the VGA socket.

amigoun · 17 January 2016, 13:16

Not really, unfortunately ghosting is an unwanted feature. I made a custom shielded cable, but ghosting was the same as before.
I still dream of an Indivision ECS MK2 with DVI/HDMI and Config Tool with working VSync

DopPie · 09 June 2016, 08:10

Hi,

Is seems my Indi Ecs is also suffering from this issue. It fails to cold boot with the correct settings almost 90% of the times. I set it up for 50Hz but it keeps coming back at 62Hz.

The best chance I have of a correct display is when it has been off for a couple of minutes.

I read some boards have patches applied to them. What are these patches?

Thanks.

demolition · 09 June 2016, 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by DopPie

I read some boards have patches applied to them. What are these patches?

The patches are for noise reduction as far as I know and should not be related to this issue. My Indivision has those patches applied (as should most).

amigoun · 09 June 2016, 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by DopPie

Is seems my Indi Ecs is also suffering from this issue. It fails to cold boot with the correct settings almost 90% of the times. I set it up for 50Hz but it keeps coming back at 62Hz.

When it keeps 62Hz, and you have it set to 50Hz already, just run Config Tool and just quit until it comes with the right frequency. IECS reinitializes upon every program quit. Better and faster than switching Amiga off and on.

15 August 2013, 15:13	#23
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 43 Posts: 4,190	On many monitors you might not clearly see the difference until you go into the menus and have it show the active display mode. Edit: I have no idea how, but now it seems to be working. I cold booted the Amiga about 10 times, and all 10 was into 50 Hz, which it wouldn't do before. It still goes wrong when I open the config tool and quits it again. After the Indivision reset it often comes up in 63 Hz, but a cold boot later it's back to 50 Hz. Still a bit weird, but now it's not so annoying as there is no reason to open the config tool again since it has been set up. Last edited by demolition; 15 August 2013 at 19:09.

16 January 2016, 22:15	#32
8bitbubsy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 1,711	I bought an Indivision ECS from icomp.de a week ago, and I have the same problem as the people in this thread. It loses its 50Hz/62Hz setting ALL the time. It mostly boots to 62Hz when I pick 1.00 mode (it worked at 50Hz for some time) even if I press SAVE before quitting. I've tried to clean the mobo connector then reseat the A604n and the Indivision ECS. Also tried to reflash the 1.01 core. Additionally, these people have the same problem as me: - johey, mr.spiv, jimbob, turrican9, demolition, amigoun, CrashMidnick (and rogersyd, but an AGA MK2) I hope Jens will fix this soon, this is not good! 1.00 (50Hz) mode also has some stuttering every now and then. I know it's not my monitor becuase it's very smooth with the Picasso IV scandoubler. Last edited by 8bitbubsy; 17 January 2016 at 11:52.

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14 August 2013, 22:55	#21
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 43 Posts: 4,190	I just tried this, but it didn't solve the problem. After a core reset there is about 90% chance of it outputting 63 Hz and 10% 50 Hz. When it is running 63 Hz and I open the config tool, it says 71,6MHz pixel clock despite the Mode still saying 1.00. Actually, the problem is worse with the 1.10 firmware. While the percentage of 63Hz output screens is around 90% with 1.10, it seems more like 75% with 1.01. I also tried setting it to user mode and changing all the parameters a little so it would be custom, but still to no effect. The Amiga is now running on my new PicoPSU so I think the PSU can be ruled out as I've tried three different PSUs with it now. After changing the screen mode, did you just open the config tool, press save and then quit without touching anything else?

15 August 2013, 15:09	#22
amigoun Registered User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Czech Rep Posts: 599	Unfortunatelly most IndiECS users didnt notice this problem, because they do do not even know that the 50 Hz modes are necessary to have much better smooth graphics in games. Simmilar problem with IECS is with the beta ShapeShifer Video driver. The driver has problems with the IndiECS initialization which results in that the Shapeshifter screen opens only when you are lucky.

17 September 2013, 22:15	#24
johey Registered User Join Date: May 2012 Location: Stockholm / Sweden Posts: 49	I am also affected of this feature.

17 September 2013, 22:39	#25
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 43 Posts: 4,190	I just tried booting up my A600 again to check if it was still working like I thought it was and it wasn't. It booted up in 62.5Hz mode again. Starting the Indivision flash tool and quitting it performed a reset and now it was back in 50 Hz mode.

18 September 2013, 00:52	#26
amigoun Registered User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Czech Rep Posts: 599	I think we have to wait for Jens, if he finds a solution for this. In my experience, the refresh rate goes most of the times 62,5Mhz, if you are lucky you get the desired 50 Hz. Temporal solution (quite annoying) is the flash-tool start quit procedure until the scandoubler inicializes itself fine. What is the reason of this problem would probably require some measuring or core analysis.

14 October 2013, 16:04	#27
CrashMidnick Registered User Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: FRANCE Posts: 222	My indivision ECS lost its settings again. It seems that It has something to do with cold boot. I do not use anymore the config tool to set it up back to 50HZ (as it is useless) but I only need to do 1 or 2 hard reset and correct settings are back. I Hope that Jens will find a solution in the future...

14 October 2013, 16:06	#28
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 43 Posts: 4,190	Sounds like it is behaving just like mine then.

31 December 2013, 09:12	#29
johey Registered User Join Date: May 2012 Location: Stockholm / Sweden Posts: 49	It's not that the settings are gone, but it seems they are not always loaded after a cold start. When the machine is powered up, it goes in to either 50 Hz which is my setting, 62.5 Hz which seems to be some default value or sometimes a value close to 50 or 62.5 Hz like 49.7 or 62.3. Reflashing is not necessary. The settings is still there and will perhaps load correcly next cold start. One hypothesis which is likely to be completely wrong: Does the indivision ask the monitor for supported values? If so, could it be a timing issue? What if the monitor is not responding in time? This is so annoying. Please Jens, have a look at this!

24 April 2014, 00:34	#30
rogersyd Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: WV USA Posts: 31	Is this the last word on this issue? The MKII in my A4K does this...

17 January 2016, 11:28	#35
turrican9 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Norway Age: 47 Posts: 893	I have two Indy ECS. One in my Amiga 600 and one in my Amiga 500. Both have the problem where they will forget the 50Hz setting. One was bought last year and the other one just a while ago. They also have ghosting. Seems to be worse in the Amiga 500. I recently bought two BenQ BL702A monitors. Connecting these to the RGB port with RGB to VGA adapter seems to be the perfect solution. No ghosting and perfect scrolling. With these monitors you don't need a scandoubler. At least the Indy ECS has a 50Hz setting. It will also give you the correct PAL aspect ratio (720x567 PAL.) out of the box, so the games will show properly. The Indy AGA MK2 on the other hand is missing a proper 50Hz mode. You can finetune it, but it will never be perfect. Also, to get proper aspect ratio you need to make a custom resolution of 720x567 for PAL (You also need to type in 667x283 for overscan, to get all games to show correctly). Not user friendly. All the standard resolutions that comes with the config tool are wrong aspect ratio.

17 January 2016, 11:53	#36
8bitbubsy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 1,711	Yeah, Indivision seems to be way less professional than I thought. The ghosting most likely comes from the non-shielded VGA cable from the Indivision to the VGA socket.

17 January 2016, 13:16	#37
amigoun Registered User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Czech Rep Posts: 599	Not really, unfortunately ghosting is an unwanted feature. I made a custom shielded cable, but ghosting was the same as before. I still dream of an Indivision ECS MK2 with DVI/HDMI and Config Tool with working VSync

09 June 2016, 08:10	#38
DopPie Zone Friend Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Den Hoorn, NL Age: 44 Posts: 259	Hi, Is seems my Indi Ecs is also suffering from this issue. It fails to cold boot with the correct settings almost 90% of the times. I set it up for 50Hz but it keeps coming back at 62Hz. The best chance I have of a correct display is when it has been off for a couple of minutes. I read some boards have patches applied to them. What are these patches? Thanks.

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