Helping newcomers...

[DH]

Originally Posted by nanogoblin

.... Sorry, that last went right over my head....

Does that not tell you something Deli

[NewDeli]

Originally Posted by DemonHellraiser

Does that not tell you something Deli

I mentioned my first reply would need some sort of complement. I am not going to review the complete WinUAE dev. stages of these last months, but feel free to do so if you think that's worth it.

And being "confused" for 2 hours is no big deal, sometimes it would take me days to solve an issue, because of scattered info, board rules... It's not confusion, it's putting the pieces together, which require some effort & experimentation from both sides (and a hint of lateral thinking).

You can put me in your ignore list, if you want DH. It seems to be another of those wacky trend on EAB these days.

[TCD]

This was about installing WinUAE, the most simple step of getting into Amiga emulation. However you managed to give a confusing answer. I think that should really tell you something.

Originally Posted by Deleauvive

I am not going to review the complete WinUAE dev. stages of these last months

That's exactly the problem Where did you get that this info was wanted at any stage? He simply asked about 1.6.2 and 2.0.0. There is a simple answer, really there is.

[NewDeli]

Once WinUAE .exe is updated with the beta, the version you're running is the beta, not the stable anymore. Your reply about version differences is right, but you could have gone into further details, because as I said a lot of ground has been covered since v1.6.1.

What I really meant was "forget about v1.6.1, other than the support files it comes with" and tero restated it without insisting on the "confusing aspects" of my posts, which were both intentional (lack of time) and minimal (no big deal).

Finally, I do think installing by hand is better (just dezipping to a convenient folder) : Create a shortcut by yourself, and overwrite the exe when necessary, that makes up for the installer functions.
I have emitted the wish the stable were also proposed in zip in some other thread.

[TCD]

Yay, again you don't get the point, but let's leave it there okay?

Originally Posted by Deleauvive

I have emitted the wish the stable were also proposed in zip in some other thread.

Er, the stable is available in zip format. WinUAE.net is down again, but I only grab the zipped versions, so I can upload it to the zone if you want to see it...

[cosmicfrog]

I know this is off topic, but what experiences do you have with real amiga hardware Deleauvive and for how long ? as I can see you trying to help/make nanogoblin learn how to config winuea once he`s got it installed and you just confused him/her at the very first step

edit:
winuae is a great bit of software and as such dos`t need to be installed, just need all ya paths settin up and a few roms and ya good to go

[NewDeli]

Sure, upload it, I'd rather be able to choose from either the installer or the zip archive.

Thanx !

[tero]

Originally Posted by Deleauvive

What I really meant was "forget about v1.6.1, other than the support files it comes with" ... ...which were both intentional (lack of time) and minimal (no big deal).

It would be better to say that in the first post,
It is not a quiz show

Lack of time and no big deal are very pity reasons
When puzzling your post's into something and getting confused,
just because a few seconds to correct or because you think it's not a big deal

nanogoblin has said he is absolut beginner in WinUAE so all things
that are easy for you could be hard one for him, you know


EDIT: Where are all these posts coming from?

[TCD]

In the zone. Oh and btw : http://web.archive.org/web/200204020...ww.winuae.net/ (even with 0.8.22R5 you could get a zip archive...)

[NewDeli]

@cosmicfrog
I had an A500 for 5-6 years long, with only a second floppy drive as additonal hardware
until 1994 and never bothered to get any "beefed-up" Amiga later on.

We're not yet at configuration stage, except if you consider unzipping a bunch of files is part of the configuration process. Of course, I don't expect people to post once their issue is sorted out, but as TCD puts it, it's completely useless to make further comments on that "first step" until nanogoblin replies, should he decide to do so.

If you really want to argue about it, notice how TCD reply about updating v1.6.1 is ressembling this part of my first post :

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

I would grab 1.6.1 and the latest beta. First either 'install' using the exe or unzip using the zip version 1.6.1 and then just replace the winuae.exe with the latest beta.

Originally Posted by Deleauvive

The stable versions comes with an installer, so you might want to setup v1.6.2 on your PC and overwrite the executable with the beta, so that you will have the full package.

It's strictly identical advice ! and anyway I could agree with nanogoblin to some extend that this v2 beta series could be "advertised" better on winuae.net.

[TCD]

Yeah, except the part about 1.6.2...
Oh and read the other thread again why betas aren't 'advertised'. Really do it.

[DH]

Come on guys, poor nanogoblin must be thinking this is how our EAB members do things on here. He has only posted 3 times in HIS own thread

I know it's in everyone's best interests to help, but some information and some explanations are somewhat misleading, incorrect and blatantly confusing (Deli). No offence Deli, but I really do think you need to shorten your posts down, get to the point and stop waffling in between. It'll make life easier for you and for everyone else.

Besides, what sort of impression are we all giving nanogoblin, or any other new member, from where I'm looking, not a very good one at all.

[NewDeli]

I really think such comments of yours are pointless, OT and simply gratuitous especially since you don't seem to be poised to be doing the helping in that ideally concise, non-waffling way you're describing.

[eLowar]

Originally Posted by Deleauvive

I really think such comments of yours are pointless, OT and simply gratuitous especially since you don't seem to be poised to be doing the helping in that ideally concise, non-waffling way you're describing.

No, he's right. Don't you see that you are not helping? All you're doing is confusing people who don't have a clue (no offense to the clueless, there's nothing wrong with being new to something), and annoying those who do. You turn the most simple problems into ridiculously complicated ones, and the most simple answers into long, confusing rants. And a lot of your information is just plain wrong and/or you state extremely subjective opinion as hard fact.

I'll give you the benefit of a doubt and assume you really just want to help (rather than just trying to get attention at all cost), but if you don't put more effort into phrasing and researching your answers, it might be better for all if you just don't help.

@some mod: Could you maybe split this OT discussion into a new thread? (don't ask me what the title should be... maybe something about really helping)

@nanogoblin: Sorry for hijacking your thread, but this is long overdue (Deleauvive confusing "help" is a recurring pattern these days), maybe a mod will fix the thread.

[Kitty]

Oh and btw : http://web.archive.org/web/200204020...ww.winuae.net/ (even with 0.8.22R5 you could get a zip archive...)

Whats that version, beta? Its named differently.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Kitty

Whats that version, beta? Its named differently.

Forget about it, it's really old It was just to show Deleauvive that a zipped version is available for a long time already.

[NewDeli]

Originally Posted by eLowar

I'll give you the benefit of a doubt and assume you really just want to help

That's very nice of you .
I can only think of putting me on your ignore list as a remedy for the annoyance my posts are to you, or may be fill in a petition and take it to RCK for me to stop posting in Prb. WinUAE .

I don't buy the "TCD can handle it better than you" for each and every situation, for one because even the best retro'ers can forget how they did things and the amount of trial & error they had to put in their experiments, when they started to fiddle with emulators.
Posting technical advice is requiring attention from the community in some ways anyway.

I think if the majority of WinUAE "experts " are satisfied congratulating (to stay polite) each other on superficial problem solving, I might decide to leave newcomers to this sad situation.

I agree not all of my explanations are crystal clear, that's intentional because people have to find out about some things by themselves, even if they read guides and may appear to do things as expected. But I don't think I leave them as clueless as you're implying, it's just a matter of thinking over in the back of your head what you're doing wrong sometimes.

May be some newcomers who consistently make the same mistakes over and over should be invited to one of the IRC channels, because even with members posting at blazing speeds, a board is not always ideally suited for providing help.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Deleauvive

I don't buy the "TCD can handle it better than you" for each and every situation, and posting technical advice is requiring attention from the community in some ways anyway.

Neither do I, but you are just posting assumptions and wrong info most of the time and that's the problem. I don't claim any 'exclusive' rights to answer questions, but I can't stand people talking rubbish all the time.

Originally Posted by Deleauvive

I think if the majority of WinUAE "experts " are satisfied congratulating (to stay polite) each other on superficial problem solving, I might decide to leave newcomers to this sad situation.

Wow, just wow. Your hubris is really astonishing

[eLowar]

Originally Posted by Deleauvive

I agree not all of my explanations are crystal clear, that's intentional because people have to find out about some things by themselves, even if they read guides and may appear to do things as expected. But I don't think I leave them as clueless as you're implying, it's just a matter of thinking over in the back of your head what you're doing wrong sometimes.

No, what you're doing is worse than leaving them clueless, you're leaving them with a load of new, useless information to research on their own (or ask more questions about), which will lead them absolutely nowhere, and just leaves them more confused than they were to begin with.

[Graham Humphrey]

I've split all the OT discussion from this thread into the new one to avoid confusing poor old nanogoblin even more (hope I've done this right, it was a mess and a half).

I think, Deleauvive, you are genuinely trying to help people who are finding their way round here and I think that is to be appreciated. But the very fact that people are more confused than they were before reading your input must surely say something.

This is clearly becoming an issue with several members now, and basically I would say (and I'm sure everybody would agree these are pretty important requirements for an answer to a "help" post):

Keep things as simple and clear as possible and don't complicate it more than necessary. "Don't run before you can walk" springs to mind.

If you don't really have a lot of knowledge in a certain area, just let someone else answer it as everyone is stronger in particular areas than others. But if you do want to try and answer do some research first. If you get things wrong then, well that happens, we all do it, just acknowledge it, it's not a disaster.

Also be very careful of presenting opinion as a cold, hard fact.

Oh, and never ever assume anything, always try to find out exactly what problems people are experiencing (the "Quickstart" issue with Kitty recently is a good example) and make sure all possibilities are considered.

If all we are doing is confusing people, annoying others and clogging up threads with OT stuff when it could all be sorted within 10 or so posts then something is going very wrong and this is happening too much now.