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Old 21 June 2019, 14:38   #1
Amigajay
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Full screen PAL Amiga games 320x256

As people who used their Amiga on their TV’s apposed to a monitor, having black bars on the majority of games was annoying and sometimes embarrassing (in the old playground wars) it may have been acceptable practice in the 80’s computer arena, but when the 16-bit consoles hit Amiga owners expected more from game publishers to give us full screen gaming.

I made these lists because i wanted to see which companies supported developers making full screen games the most, supported the Amiga and listened to its fans in this way.

*Games with asterix mean truly full-screen with in-game screen being 100% of displayed image and doesn’t include single coloured background, logo or status bar for part of image unless semi-transparent where the game can been seen behind. (List at bottom of these games)

I randomly picked 20 Publishers and compared their release numbers against games they released with a full screen display, two lists are below, one working out the percentage and the other plainly by number of releases.

Finally, yes i am aware this resolution is for PAL Televisions only, and more than likely some American companies would never had supported this resolution, even though some American companies did, so it’s just for comparison and not a slag any company off kind of view.

Top by percentage of their releases:
==========================
21st Century 6/10 = 60%
Team 17 16/27 = 59%
Renegade - 11/24 = 46%
Flair 4/15 = 27%
Audiogenic 6/26 = 23%
Gremlin 12/61 = 20%
Psygnosis 10/61 = 16%
Core Design 4/26 = 15%
Grandslam 4/27 = 15%
Titus 4/31 = 13%
Krisalis 3/24 = 12%
System 3 1/11 = 9%
Mindscape 5/70 = 7%
Gametek 1/17 = 6%
Ocean 3/80 = 4%
US Gold - 2/116 = 2%
Virgin 1/45 = 2%
Electronic Arts 0/77 = 0%
Microprose 0/40 = 0%
Millennium 0/27 = 0%

Top by number of releases:
====================
Team 17 - 16
Gremlin - 12
Renegade - 11
Psygnosis - 10
Audiogenic - 6
21st Century - 6
Mindscape - 5
Core Design - 4
Flair - 4
Grandslam - 4
Titus - 4
Krisalis - 3
Ocean - 3
US Gold - 2
Gametek - 1
System 3 - 1
Virgin - 1
Electronic Arts - 0
Microprose - 0
Millennium - 0


21st Century 6/10 = 60%
=========
Deliverance
Pinball Dreams
Pinball Fantasies
Pinball Illusions
Pinball Mania
Slam Tilt

Audiogenic 6/26 = 23%
========
Exile OCS
*Super Tennis Champs
*Wembley Rugby League
*World Class Rugby
*World Class Rugby 95
*World Class Rugby Five Nations

Core Design 4/26 = 15%
=========
Banshee
Cyberpunks
Premiere
*Skeleton Krew

Electronic Arts 0/77 = 0.0%
===========

Flair 4/15 = 26%
===
Dangerous Streets
Euro Soccer
Mitre Soccer Superstars
*Rally Championship AGA

Gametek 1/17 = 6%
=======
Batman Returns

Grandslam 4/27 = 15%
========
England
ITS Cricket
*Nick Faldo’s Golf
*Pac-Mania

Gremlin 12/61 = 20%
======
Heroquest
*Litil Divil
Premier Manager x4
*Skidz
Space Crusade
*Switchblade II
*Ultimate Darts
*Zool OCS
*Zool 2

Krisalis 3/24 = 12%
=====
*Man Utd PLC
*Man Utd The Double
Rogue Trooper

Microprose 0/40 = 0.0%
========

Millennium 0/27 = 0.0%
========

Mindscape 5/70 = 7%
========
Liberation : Captive 2
Overkill / Lunar C
*Paperboy
Pierre Le Chef Out To Lunch
*Seek And Destroy

Ocean 3/80 = 4%
=====
*European Champions
Sly Spy
*Tie Break

Psygnosis 10/61 = 16%
=======
*Air Support
Benefactor
Bob’s Bad Day
*Cytron
Last Action Hero
Microcosm
Prime Mover
Red Zone
Theatre Of Death
Wiz N Liz

Renegade - 11/24 = 46%
========
Chaos Engine 2
*Sensible Soccer x10

System 3 1/11 = 9%
=======
*Fuzzball

Team 17 16/27 = 59%
======
Alien Breed 3D
Alien Breed 3D II
Alien Breed II
Alien Breed Tower Assault
Apache
Assassin
Assassin SE
*All Terrain Racing
Body Blows Galactic Aga
Kingpin
Project X
Project X SE
*Super Stardust
Superfrog
Worms
Worms DC

Titus 4/31 = 13%
====
Prehistrorik CDTV
Quik The Thunder Rabbit
Sliders
*Titan

US Gold - 2/116 = 2%
======
*Line Of Fire
The Manager

Virgin 1/45 = 2%
====
North Polar Expedition


To further look at some statistics i used the two Amiga consoles which were primally used for TV use, to see if publishers knowing this would improve the user’s gaming experience with full screen games.

CDTV Percentage - 10 / 52 = 19%
CD32 Percentage - 39 / 163 = 24%

Overall, even though it increased for the better slightly for the CD32, it’s still more three quarters of games not using the full resolution for a games console that only had a ‘full’ launch and support in Europe.

CD32 Percentage - 39 / 163 = 24%
=========================
Alien Breed 3D
Alien Breed Tower Assault
*All Terrain Racing
Banshee
Basejumpers
Benefactor
Clue, The
Dangerous Streets
Fightin Spirit
Final Gate, The
Kingpin
Liberation : Captive 2
*Litil Divil
*Man Utd PLC
Microcosm
Mitre Soccer Superstars
Naughty Ones
*Nick Faldo’s Golf
Overkill / Lunar C
Pierre Le Chef Out To Lunch
Pinball Fantasies
Pinball Illusions
*Pinball Prelude
Premiere
Prey : An Alien Encounter
Project X SE / F17 Challenge
Quik The Thunder Rabbit
*Seek And Destroy
*Sensible Soccer
*Sensible Soccer International
*Skeleton Krew
*Super Methane Bros
*Super Stardust
Superfrog
Thomas The Tank Engine Pinball
*Trivial Pursuit
Worms
Zool
Zool 2

CDTV Percentage - 10 / 52 = 19%
========================
Casino Games
Holiday Maker
Mind Run
North Polar Expedition
Power Pinball
Prehistorik
Prey : An Alien Encounter
Strip Poker Live
*Tie Break
*Trivial Pursuit


*Full screen 320x256 no status bar games - 82

From a library of 3K of commercial games, only 82! are proper full screen PAL games, with Sensible Soccer proping up 10% of that figure! It’s a real shame Commodore didn’t have the for-sight to include some proper scaling hardware to its consoles, i would have preferred a slightly lower internal resolution that doubled in hardware to generate a full screen TV image without the compromise of like on the SNES meaning games like Toki would have been near fullscreen, whilst others could have lowered their resolutions to give more game performance.

Stock Amiga Games Only Pre 2000

3D Pool
Air Support
All Terrain Racing
A.P.B
Apano Sin
Big Run
Bomber Bob
Canton
Capital Punishment
Centre Court
Champ, The
Championship Shooting
Crosscheck
Cytron
Double Dragon II
E.Ts Rugby League
Fist Fighter
Five-A-Side Soccer
Football Glory
Formula 1 3D
Fuzzball
Hugo
Hugo Del 2
International Soccer
International Tennis
Jim Power
Line Of Fire
Litil Divil
Locomotion
Man Utd Europe
Man Utd PLC
Man Utd The Double
Max Rally
Mikro Mortal Tennis
Missiles Over Xerion
Nick Faldo’s Golf
Over The Net
Pac-Mania
Paperboy
Pinball Prelude
Power, The
Rally Championship AGA
Ruffian
Seek And Destroy
Sensible Soccer x8
Skeleton Krew
Skidz
Smash
Space Harrier : Return To The Fantasy Zone
Speedball
Stardust
Super Methane Bros
Super Stardust
Super Tennis Champs
Switchblade II
SWIV
Talmino
Tie Break
Tip Off
Titan
Trivial Pursuit CDTV/CD32
Ultimate Darts
Ultimate Pinball Quest
Vindex
Wayne Gretzky Hockey
Wembley Rugby League
World Class Rugby
World Class Rugby 95
World Class Rugby Five Nations
World Cup 90
XR-35 Fighter Mission
Zarathrusta
Zool OCS
Zool 2
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Old 21 June 2019, 17:11   #2
roondar
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Originally Posted by Amigajay View Post
As people who used their Amiga on their TV’s apposed to a monitor, having black bars on the majority of games was annoying and sometimes embarrassing (in the old playground wars) it may have been acceptable practice in the 80’s computer arena, but when the 16-bit consoles hit Amiga owners expected more from game publishers to give us full screen gaming.
I'm not so sure about the 'embarrassing' part. All PAL 16-bit consoles had very similarly sized black (or some other colour) borders around the screen compared to the non-full screen Amiga games. It's only in NTSC land that consoles usually used a 'full' screen (and Amiga NTSC games were just as 'full screen').

It seems to me people 'forgot' about this due to the proliferation of emulators and NTSC console games. But back in the 1990's, it was a different story.

That said, great list - we needed one of these
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Old 21 June 2019, 17:22   #3
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We talked about this iirc. Yes, most of all old PAL console games had black bars (top and button) because they still are real NTSC games, only converted to the PAL color standard and slowdowned to 50Hz. Higher PAL TV resolution, hence the black bars and ugly squeezed image.

I have no problem with non full screen Amiga games. Shitty ST ports or generally games with a choppy/juddery scrolling annoys me much more. Anyway, nice list. Thanks.

Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 21 June 2019 at 17:30.
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Old 21 June 2019, 17:33   #4
Amigajay
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No problem.

Yeah i do remember console games (i owned a MS and MD) had black borders on non PAL origin games, i guess to that degree its actually more embarrassing now when i see comments on YT saying the screen-size is tiny on comparison videos, as most people use the NTSC version of a particular console game esp in emulators when it defaults to NTSC.

In that respect it would be interesting to know how many PAL Megadrive or SNES games are full screen too.
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Old 23 June 2019, 12:00   #5
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Nice job compiling this list, very interesting.

I know what you mean about the "playground wars", the size of the game screen argument was often used with my console owning friends back in the day. I was quite jealous after playing James Pond 2 on the Mega Drive, the graphics and music didn't bother me, always thought the Amiga sounded better and generally looked better (especially in the hands of talented developers). However screen size was a personal annoyance for me. Big respect to the developers that pushed for a large screen size over parallax scrolling though.

Edit: Is there a better example than Jim Power, in terms of screen size and parallax? Not sure there is, on OCS machines especially. Usually one of these things is scarified due to hardware limits.

Last edited by lordofchaos; 23 June 2019 at 12:08.
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Old 23 June 2019, 12:05   #6
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In that respect it would be interesting to know how many PAL Megadrive or SNES games are full screen too.
Pretty sure the answer to this is zero.
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Old 23 June 2019, 12:48   #7
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Originally Posted by Amigajay View Post
In that respect it would be interesting to know how many PAL Megadrive or SNES games are full screen too.
According to Sega Retro:-

"Mega Drive screenshot has a resolution of 320x224 pixels in NTSC regions, however, the resolution in PAL regions is 320×240. It is noted that not many games take advantage of the extra resolution, leading to borders around the top and bottom of the screen."

The SNES was also 240 lines max. Since that produces quite large borders in PAL, the correct answer to 'how many PAL Megadrive or SNES games are full screen' is 'none'.
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Old 23 June 2019, 13:09   #8
Amigajay
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Nice one cheers! I originally thought maybe some Pal only games like Super Skidmarks were fullscreen, but after checking YT for non emulator footage i can see the smaller black-bars on that game.

Guess that makes it more impressive with games that did support 320x256, but still kinda annoying we got stuck with so many games using 320x200 or sometimes less horizontally.
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Old 25 June 2019, 01:27   #9
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Full screen PAL Amiga games 320x256

You do know why there was a large black bar at the bottom of the screen for a lot of games, right? You had a PAL Amiga and were running NTSC games or badly programmed PAL games (that only ran on PAL but didn’t use full screen. ie Chaos Engine AGA, Lollypop). If you want to have the game run at full screen you just have to switch to NTSC screen mode. But it won’t work for TVs only on the RGB monitors. Yes it was very annoying.

Last edited by TjLaZer; 29 June 2019 at 02:28.
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Old 28 June 2019, 13:49   #10
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Not necessarily badly programmed. Could be, that they squeezed every cycle they could out of the 7.09 MHz machine and still needed all the PAL lines for a 200 line screen. :-)
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Old 04 May 2020, 18:28   #11
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Nice list.

I find this subject fascinating, especially seein as I was trying/struggling to properly display emulated Amiga on a CRT for years. One of the reasons I've recently got a real one was to actually see how the hell it really looked.

The thing with this huge gap in the bottom of non-full screen games was quite a shock for me. It's been a long time and I have no recollection of this being a thing/problem in the past, and yet it really is big. And sure, I remmeber borders on ZX/C64...yet this is somewhat different (least feels different) Strange.

One confusing thing, when I was reading about such stuff is that I have found this post on AmigaLove: Retro-gaming Enthusiasts Are Getting It All Wrong

It's mostly about the modern malady of posting out-of-aspect screenshots of retro games on modern websites. There's this bit relevant to this topic though:
Quote:
"Moby Games has it wrong in many cases. Hall of Light has it wrong, too. Nearly everyone I follow on Twitter has it wrong.

In the Amiga’s case (although his happens to literally all consoles from the 80s and early 90s, too, since people are capturing via emulators), in North America the typical resolution was 320x200. In Europe, it was 320x256. But designers didn’t expect this output to simply display in the middle of your screen. No - using knobs on the back of your monitor when you first bought the machine, you were expected to adjust the “vertical size” of an image to fit nicely into that TV or monitor you owned.
I mean- really? But not everybody had a monitor and i don't recall Tvs having such knobs. Even my newer CRTs don't have them, you have to mess in service menus. Would designers really knock out squashed games and expect users to fiddle with their displays?

Another thing, after reading this Amiga/DOS discussion, I've finally got my DOS PC and Amiga side by side and compared Legend of Kyrandia on both machines. DOS fills the screen nicely while Amiga is squashed and things look much "fatter". Was this just a case with particular ports (eg if Kyrandia was written on PC) or was the gfx squashed in all Amiga games and we really were supposed to buy monitors or something? Seems a crazy idea...

Sorry if this sounds confusing but this subject is doing exactly that to my poor head

Last edited by dreadnought; 04 May 2020 at 18:29. Reason: 2old2spell
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Old 04 May 2020, 18:40   #12
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I personally think that the "just use the monitor knobs" argument is a good example of trying to retroactively come up with a reason for something. Something that really is just a plain and simple negative... Now don't get me wrong, there are good reasons to pick a 200 (or even less) line resolution on PAL Amiga's (extra cycles for the Blitter/CPU being the main one, lower memory use being the secondary benefit).

But that doesn't mean all 200 line games were like that. In fact, I'd argue that most 200 line games were not like that at all. Rather, they were the signs of porting from other systems and not wanting to/not being able to afford the redesign of graphics assets designed for 200 pixel tall screens on other systems (PC's, Atari ST, even 8 bit machines like the C64). As for games that do use 200 lines for the purposes I've outlined, well they do not have distorted graphics... Just less lines.

The same happens on some SNES ports, where the graphics often look somewhat off due to the different aspect ratio of the screen.
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Old 04 May 2020, 18:48   #13
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But that doesn't mean all 200 line games were like that. In fact, I'd argue that most 200 line games were not like that at all.
Well, I bloody hope so! And I struggle to believe this monitor-or-bust argument.

Need to do more comparing tonight maybe, but you can check the Kyrandia scr$ I've just linked to in this Amiga vs DOS thread - Amiga version really looks pretty bad, AR-wise. I just can't believe it'd be the case for all the games. Though his article makes a big example out of DotC, which is a quintessential Amiga game.
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Old 04 May 2020, 18:55   #14
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I personally think that the "just use the monitor knobs" argument is a good example of trying to retroactively come up with a reason for something. Something that really is just a plain and simple negative... Now don't get me wrong, there are good reasons to pick a 200 (or even less) line resolution on PAL Amiga's (extra cycles for the Blitter/CPU being the main one, lower memory use being the secondary benefit).

But that doesn't mean all 200 line games were like that. In fact, I'd argue that most 200 line games were not like that at all. Rather, they were the signs of porting from other systems and not wanting to/not being able to afford the redesign of graphics assets designed for 200 pixel tall screens on other systems (PC's, Atari ST, even 8 bit machines like the C64). As for games that do use 200 lines for the purposes I've outlined, well they do not have distorted graphics... Just less lines.

The same happens on some SNES ports, where the graphics often look somewhat off due to the different aspect ratio of the screen.
I can understand the ports from system where the resolution is 320x200 like earlier DOS games, but there is plenty of other Amiga games not from DOS sources that are made using the same resolution.

And as someone said above, if it was for the NTSC market then the developers making PAL only games in that same resolution were indeed lazy, or simply weren’t good enough to get enough out of the Amiga, i know people love the Bitmap Brothers, imo they never pushed the Amiga like they did the ST, and was why Team 17 were a breath of fresh air for Amiga owners, and like Psygnosis in 89 really helped push the Amiga and force other developers to follow suit.
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Old 04 May 2020, 18:58   #15
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Well to be fair here, there were only very few systems that had a 256 line display. Almost all had fewer, most systems ported from actually had 200 by default. I suppose some later DOS games used 320x240, wonder how ports from games using that resolution turned out.

So using 200 lines for a port does make sense. I mean, I'm not saying I like it - far from it. But it does make sense for ports.
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Old 04 May 2020, 19:03   #16
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Well to be fair here, there were only very few systems that had a 256 line display. Almost all had fewer, most systems ported from actually had 200 by default. I suppose some later DOS games used 320x240, wonder how ports from games using that resolution turned out.

So using 200 lines for a port does make sense. I mean, I'm not saying I like it - far from it. But it does make sense for ports.
Oh not to be too picky, i would be perfectly happy with 240 lines, not all TVs could see overscan anyway.

Its more original Amiga games from 91-94 that were made in Europe that used 320x200 that bug me the most!
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Old 04 May 2020, 20:15   #17
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Yeah, I mostly agree. Then again, games like Lionheart show that lowering resolution slightly is (IMHO anyway) a valid way to get extra resources to do an overall better looking game at the cost of not being full screen any more.

320x256 is nice (overscan is even nicer), but on the Amiga this does also mean accepting less Blitter throughput and less CPU cycles to spend - which also impacts games. Depends on what you want more then
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Old 05 May 2020, 01:19   #18
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In fact, I'd argue that most 200 line games were not like that at all. Rather, they were the signs of porting from other systems and not wanting to/not being able to afford the redesign of graphics assets designed for 200 pixel tall screens on other systems
Not just porting from other systems, but also to them. Designing the game in 256 lines could mean having to redo all the graphics when porting to other systems, whereas if it was designed in 200 lines to start with then porting was much easier (including 'porting' from NTSC to PAL Amigas).

Also remember that the Amiga itself was originally designed and sold in the US, where 200 lines was the norm. US developers might not even have had access to PAL hardware. We complained about 'squashed' graphics on PAL machines, but Americans had the opposite problem. The 'best' European games wouldn't work properly on their Amigas!

Personally it didn't bother me. All my previous computers (ZX Spectrum, Sega SC3000, Amstrad CPC664) all had 200 lines or less, and often the active screen area was made even smaller for performance reasons.

But what did annoy me (and still does) was the non-square pixel aspect in NTSC. In low resolution where every pixel counts, being slightly too tall makes the pixels of square objects asymmetric and circles more jagged. Even with correction, somehow the graphics still look a little stretched. And with fewer lines the gaps between them are larger, reducing brightness and increasing eye strain. I pitied US Amiga owners for being stuck with 200 lines.
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Old 05 May 2020, 01:40   #19
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Need to do more comparing tonight maybe, but you can check the Kyrandia scr$ I've just linked to in this Amiga vs DOS thread - Amiga version really looks pretty bad, AR-wise. I just can't believe it'd be the case for all the games. Though his article makes a big example out of DotC, which is a quintessential Amiga game.
I dunno, looking at the 320x200 ported games I played, most of them do actually look squashed when displayed on a PAL screen.
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Not just porting from other systems, but also to them. Designing the game in 256 lines could mean having to redo all the graphics when porting to other systems, whereas if it was designed in 200 lines to start with then porting was much easier (including 'porting' from NTSC to PAL Amigas).
Right, it does go both ways. But in my experience far more games were ported from PC/NTSC Amiga's to PAL Amiga's than the other way around.
Quote:
Personally it didn't bother me. All my previous computers (ZX Spectrum, Sega SC3000, Amstrad CPC664) all had 200 lines or less, and often the active screen area was made even smaller for performance reasons.
I find I have less of an issue with the 320x200 resolution if it's centered. It's the uneven borders that I find unattractive. That said, the fact the borders exist doesn't bother me nearly as much as it does many others. Case in point: many of my favourite Amiga games run in 320x200 with the big bottom border and I still love them
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Old 05 May 2020, 11:52   #20
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Personally it didn't bother me. All my previous computers (ZX Spectrum, Sega SC3000, Amstrad CPC664) all had 200 lines or less, and often the active screen area was made even smaller for performance reasons.
Spectrum had an effective display size of 352x296, and yes you could use it, albeit at a low resolution.
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