Suppressed Fred Fish disks

[wizard1]

Hi Again Rygar,
Let me know if you get the teteris game working?
Cheers

Originally Posted by rygar

Thank you

[aeberbach]

I just uploaded something I found years ago and have hung onto for a while, I believe it is the source from the missing Ogre directory, disk 57. There's a fair description of how to build it in README. I definitely don't have any full disks or other versions sorry.

[StoneOakvalley]

Sorry, I'm late to the party :-)

So, README.list57 said for "Ogre"

"Ogre A game of tactical ground combat in the year 2086.
Ogres are giat cybernetic tanks, each prodigiously
armed and possessing a limited self-awareness, allowing
them to do their own tactical planning. Your goal is
to neutralize the ogre. Includes source.
Author: Michael Caplinger; Amiga port by Hobie Orris"

Now, that source that is mentioned here by another user can be found in like:
Back2Roots_Compilation\cam\lha\00xx\cam-0030.lha\cam-0030.lha\ogre\
where the "poster" text files says:

"I have recently discovered that there is a commercial version of the
game Ogre for the Amiga. This discovery prompted me to dig out my Unix Ogre
which I ported to the Amiga as my first Intuition program. So here it is.
This posting is in two parts. Part 1 is the object code and instructions to
play the game, Part 2 is the source code and README. I am posting to this
group because it's the only Amiga group that appears to be alive and well.

For those who don't know what Ogre is, it's a `display-oriented'
(whatever that means) game of future tactical ground combat against a big
robot tank. This version was ported to Amiga from Unix, where it was released
over the net in 1984, and has been tarted up with menus and gadgets and such.
It was created under 1.1 with Lattice 3.02 (seriously!) but it also compiles
under 1.2 with no problems. Since it was my first large Amiga program, there
are probably serious programming gaffes. I would appreciate these being pointed
out to me. I would also like it if someone who knows the commercial version
would mail me a comparative review. I'd like to know if we both used the same
source code as a basis.

--
Hobie Orris"

All files are dated in 1986, and that fred fish #57 is from 1987 as name "Hobie Orris" is the same, so makes sense or?

[aeberbach]

Have just put ogre_src.zip back up on the zone, this is source from FF57, includes a later improved and a unix version.

[Matt_H]

I have an original FF57 disk - it's now in the Zone.

[Minuous]

Many thanks! Now only #88, #173, #180, #221, #230, #305, #324, #404, #405, #409, #506, #507 and #538 are missing.

[zipper]

I thought it's easy to find - but : Disk withdrawn by Fred Fish 1992-07-22 12:32
...Disk #88 This disk was pulled from circulation due to the
redistribution status of files in the directory "snap".
If you encounter a disk number 88 in circulation,
please advise all parties concerned that the disk
should be erased immediately. This original disk number
88 has been replaced by disk number 89.

[StoneOakvalley]

Nice!

Yes, I searched in every possible way for traces of Disk #88 for several hours yesterday through all my AmigaFiles (44 million+), and on internet. I can't even find an original "readme.list88" if that ever listed "snap".

So far we understand the "snap" directory was a sub-directory for Microfiche in the "mff-demo/" perhaps?

The other fact is that disk #89 is supposedly the same as #88, but without that "snap" directory, which I don't know if was placed inside a directory or just in root. Also, I can't find any traces of potentional filenames under the "snap/" directory....

Do they mean "snap" from Mikael Karlsson (but that first appeared on Disk 274, so naaah).

So, my hunt now would focus on everything "microfiche" hoping that a random disk in a random BBS collection would reveal a snap.lzh, snap.lha, snap.zoo or "snap/" with stuff inside :-)

[Matt_H]

I also have original versions of disks 180, 221, 238, 324, and 409 if those are of interest.

[Minuous]

I have #238, but yes please to the others; that will mean that only #88, #173, #230, #305, #404, #405, #506, #507 and #538 are missing. I am making a new section on my Abandonware Page http://amigan.1emu.net/aw/ to contain these.

I also found an Amiga.org thread that claims there was a Star Trek TNG trivia game on disks 404 and 405 (first release), 506 and 507 (second release), and 538 (bugfix for second release) that was allegedly removed from Fred's CD compilations. I can only speak to FrozenFish Apr94, which contains all of these disks (and the site I linked to for Fish disks also has them), so I don't consider them pulled in the same sense, especially since many of the FF CDs are available online (in fact, the current CD image I'm using is downloaded because of the fact that my original disc is a little scratched). Just listing them here for completeness in case someone else has further information.

Unfortunately these don't appear to be on the Frozen Fish Apr 94 CD after all, there is just a note instead saying that the files were removed. :-( and the mentioned page http://awesome.commodore.me/amiga/fish-disks/ is gone.

[PDrill]

I have a 'fish catalogue' from a Finnish PD-distributor, it's from 1989 and contains up to #410. It seems to list every program with a description, but the usability is so poor that I won't check what it maybe tells about the 'missing floppies'. I don't know how to go directly to floppy number X, all I know is to click click click it program by program disk by disk and that's too much :-D

In case anyone's interested, it can be downloaded here: wonk.sytes.net/ext/permanent/avekatalog.adf

And it's in English.

[Matt_H]

(Maybe I'm repeating stuff that was already discussed earlier in the thread, but: )

The Fish disk descriptions on Aminet are standardized and pretty clear on what was removed from the library after a particular disk was originally issued. See the list here: http://aminet.net/search?path[]=misc...=%22removed%22, but note that this includes some false positives, i.e., program descriptions that happen to contain the word "removed."

From parsing the Aminet readmes, I believe this is the definitive list of Fish disks that were recalled/removed/modified after they were originally issued:

57
80
88
173
180
221
230
238
252
305
324
395
404
405
409
422
506
507
538
622 (due to a virus/trojan)

Note that most of these changes were implemented long before the Fish disks were compiled onto CDs, so most ADFs of any of the above disks that are circulating today are likely to be the revised versions.

But some of the earliest CD compilations do contain *some* of the material that was later removed. I have a Fred Fish Collection Collection CD v1.4 published by HyperMedia Concepts as a CDTV title in January 1992 that contains the original disks 180, 252, 404, 405, 409, 422, 506, 507, and 538, with Star Trek stuff that was removed subsequently.

It's unlikely, but maybe there's an even older CD compilation that contains the Tetris clone Steinschlag that was removed from 173, 221, 230, 238, 305, and 324.

Bottom line, though, is that ancient floppies are probably the only source of what's still missing.

[Minuous]

#238 (with Steinschlag) is at http://amigan.1emu.net/aw/Fish238.adf

I have a Fred Fish Collection Collection CD v1.4 published by HyperMedia Concepts as a CDTV title in January 1992

Found V1.2 from May 1991, downloading it now :-)

https://archive.org/download/cdrom-f...on-1-2-1991-05

[Matt_H]

Updating my list with what's known about the missing content and where it the unmodified disk can be found. Further investigation of found-disks' contents suggests that Spectrum Holobyte raised a stink with FF about several Tetris clones and not just Steinschlag.

57 - Ogre - ADF in Zone
80 - Inovatronics tools - Archive.org collection
88 - Snap - original still missing; reconstructed disk contents at http://amigan.1emu.net/aw/
173 - Tetrix 1.1 [Tetris clone] - Archive.org collection
180 - TrekTrivia - on HyperMedia Concepts Fred Fish Collection CD v1.4 (on FTP)
221 - Steinschlag 1.5 - ADF in Zone
230 - Quattro 1.0 [Tetris clone] - Archive.org collection
238 - Steinschlag 1.8 - ADF in Zone ADF on FTP (from 2020 Zone upload)
252 - TrekTrivia 2.0 - on HyperMedia Concepts Fred Fish Collection CD v1.4 (on FTP)
305 - Obsess (Obsess-O-Matic) 1.0 [Tetris clone] - Archive.org collection
324 - Tetris [Tetris clone]- ADF in Zone
395 - DragonCave 1.00 [Sokoban clone] - Archive.org collection
404 - NGTC Release One - on HyperMedia Concepts Fred Fish Collection CD v1.4 (on FTP)
405 - NGTC Release One - on HyperMedia Concepts Fred Fish Collection CD v1.4 (on FTP)
409 - Trek 1.0 [Tobias Richter's Star Trek game] - on HyperMedia Concepts Fred Fish Collection CD v1.4 (on FTP)
422 - TrekTrivia 3.0 - on HyperMedia Concepts Fred Fish Collection CD v1.4 (on FTP)
506 - NGTC Release Two - on HyperMedia Concepts Fred Fish Collection CD v1.4 (on FTP)
507 - NGTC Release Two - on HyperMedia Concepts Fred Fish Collection CD v1.4 (on FTP)
538 - NGTC Release Two, Revision 1 - on HyperMedia Concepts Fred Fish Collection CD v1.4 (on FTP)
622 - Challenger (contains a virus/trojan) - on HyperMedia Concepts Fred Fish Collection On-Line v1.5 (on FTP)

EDIT: Found more information on missing contents from a readme compilation on the AB20 archive CD. We now have clarity on which disks contained Steinschlag and which contained other Tetris clones.
EDIT 2: Clarifying that the referenced sources are where original, unmodified disks can be found
EDIT 3: Added reference source for Disk 622
EDIT 4: Added reference sources for Disks 80, 88, 230, 305, 324, 395 (thx Minuous!)
EDIT 5: Better reference source for Disk 238 (thx Minuous!)

[rygar]

Fish:80

Fish:88

Fish:173

Fish:230

Fish:305


Fish:395

[PDrill]

^ that's the one I linked a few posts above.

[rygar]

Originally Posted by PDrill

^ that's the one I linked a few posts above.

Yeah...It's from your link I just want to save some time to others clicking arrows

[Minuous]

I found disk #622 (on the HyperMedia CD V1.5) and uploaded it to my site, with a suitable warning. I wouldn't suggest running it except in a tightly sandboxed environment. I also have #80 at my site, I see it is blank in the list above.

Tetrix 1.1 (from disk #173) is common, so disk #173 could be reconstructed from that plus the existing #173a.

Reversi (from disk #305) did not get banned, it must have been in that screenshot by mistake.

[StoneOakvalley]

Great, thanks for the additional listing for Star Trek + "V1.2 from May 1991" link including that disk 622 (I dont care about the virus).

After my hunt around "Microfiche", "mff-demo", "Software Visions" and related words that lost "snap" directory was never found. Being that early of a disk, it seems it wasn't copied or distributed randomly enough for anybody to catch (and rebuild) them back to their original release. Disk 88 with that "snap" directory would be the rarest thing ever it seems. A true lost media.

Some funny text discovered inside a Microfiche database that practically typed the word "IDIOT" and other stuff, found in typically "Up_Yours_Archive\image22\Microfiche Filer Plus.adf\Microfiche\Public_Domain\Fish_1-128.mff"
89
9
"STUPIDITY
10
some FOOL!
5
IDIOT
332

There are several entries in that database with the same "FOOL" etc. entries, typically on those pulled fish disks :-)

The readme for that database file said:
"We would like to extend special thanks to Jim McKenzie and his wife Pamela
for putting much time into the Public Domain databases and donating the
databases themselves to the public domain. "

So, yeah those two folks called somebody IDIOT, I can only guess they pointed to that guy who grabbed the "snap" source code and distributed it together with "mff-demo", I can't believe they directed such foul words for our dear Fred Fish!

EDIT: Yeah, and that readme was signed by "Software Visions". So, maybe Software Visions pointed finger to their employee. Well, that just makes its even more interesting to find that "secret sauce" of "snap" code and expose it!

[StoneOakvalley]

Okey, so I checked further the google groups link that was posted and started snooping around, and boy did I finally find the original content for disk #88.
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys...m/zBdVZ35qGGgJ

"Snap Snap takes a picture of the current front screen and
reduces it to produce an icon. Can produce icons of
a user specified size. Binary only.
Author: Nick Frabotta"

So, now my hunt can go on for Mr. "Nick Frabotta" or any of the sentences.

Well, that was easy, the readme says "Binary only", and the actual SNAP program found several places, but here's one instance:
tosec\update 20180401\amiga-iso\commodore amiga cdtv - compilations (tosec-v2018-03-25_cm)\17 bit - collection for amiga cdtv (1993)(almathera)(disc 1 of 2).img\files\243.dms
inside the "icon_fun/"

This means we can rebuild disk #88 with that "SNAP" in place, or?