English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Nostalgia & memories

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 10 May 2020, 16:03   #1
Radertified
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: -
Posts: 151
Games that required an accelerator (68030, 68040, 68060)

Obviously an accelerator is great for speeding up games, such as TFX, but most of those games can be run on a 68020. Very badly in some cases, but they still run.

Do any games exist on the Amiga that absolutely required either a 68030, 68040 or 68060?
Radertified is offline  
Old 10 May 2020, 17:36   #2
DamienD
disengaged
DamienD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: London / Sydney
Age: 43
Posts: 17,511
Off the top of my head:

... Descent: Freespace - The Great War
... Earth 2140
... Earth 2140: Mission Pack - Final Conflict
... Exodus: The Last War
... Napalm: The Crimson Crisis
... Nightlong: Union City Conspiracy
... Payback
... The Feeble Files
... The Shadow Of The Third Moon
... T-zer0
... Virtual Ball Fighters
... Virtual GP
DamienD is offline  
Old 10 May 2020, 17:40   #3
Radertified
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: -
Posts: 151
That's an impressive head!

I'm sure Napalm and Payback just needed a 68020, but yeah, that's a good list. Quite a few that I'd forgotten about. Thanks DamienD!
Radertified is offline  
Old 11 May 2020, 05:00   #4
Nobby_UK
Registered User
Nobby_UK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 1,433
What about:
DooM 1+2
Hexen + Heretic
Duke Nukem
Quake
Rise of the Triad ?
Abuse ?
Nemac IV ?
Alien Breed 3D II: The Killing Grounds ?
Nobby_UK is offline  
Old 11 May 2020, 05:14   #5
Radertified
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: -
Posts: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobby_UK View Post
What about:
DooM 1+2
Hexen + Heretic
Duke Nukem
Quake
Rise of the Triad ?
Abuse ?
Nemac IV ?
Alien Breed 3D II: The Killing Grounds ?
Nemac IV I'm sure didn't require anything above a 68020. It might've even run on a 68000? That's my recollection of it anyway.

Same with AB3DII. I keep thinking my unaccelerated A1200 ran it, extremely slowly. But that was 20+ years ago so maybe my memory is hazy.

I'm not sure about the rest but yeah, they might qualify since they're all source ports that would've been built and optimized for faster CPU's.
Radertified is offline  
Old 11 May 2020, 08:27   #6
Solo Kazuki
Registered User
Solo Kazuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Poland
Posts: 868
Actually most of mentioned games are working on 68020, but it's more like watching race of snails than playing game. So it's more like "games that should be played on..."

Napalm and Payback needs 68020, but in practice they also needs 16MB of FastRAM which cannot be addressed on standard 68EC020 from A1200 (so it needs accelerator with at least full CPU version).

And I'll add to this list:
Blake Stone
Descent
Desert Racing of BarDos
Flyin' High
Foundation series
Genetic Species
Quake II
Robinson's Requiem
Sim City 2000
Strife
Tales from Heaven
Trapped
Trapped II
Turbo Racer 3D
Wing Commander
Wolfenstein 3D (and Spear of Destiny)

Edit: There are also lots of ports made by Arti...

Last edited by Solo Kazuki; 11 May 2020 at 10:45.
Solo Kazuki is offline  
Old 11 May 2020, 10:12   #7
roondar
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,984
IIRC the 68030 is an "upgraded" 68020, using the same instruction set. It's faster because of some architectural changes (data cache, burst mode, (some) instructions use less cycles), but is otherwise identical* to program for.

Technically it is possible to write code that will work on a 68020 but will fail on a 68030 (due to the date cache). But I don't think the reverse is actually true*. If a program doesn't let you run it on a 68020 but it does run on a 68030, it checks if you actually have a 68030 - the code itself shouldn't be an issue.

*) Excluding the whole MMU business, which I do believe changed between chips. That said, MMU use is pretty rare on the Amiga so it's generally not a problem.
roondar is offline  
Old 11 May 2020, 14:21   #8
Seiya
Registered User

Seiya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,044
Any of these games working with 68EC020, but of corse to play at decent speed require more power.
Seiya is offline  
Old 11 May 2020, 14:30   #9
Hewitson
Registered User
Hewitson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 37
Posts: 3,746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seiya View Post
Any of these games working with 68EC020, but of corse to play at decent speed require more power.
As mentioned above, some of these games require more Fast RAM than that CPU is capable of addressing.
Hewitson is offline  
Old 11 May 2020, 21:05   #10
Nobby_UK
Registered User
Nobby_UK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 1,433
Abuse can apparently run on an 020:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	57.png
Views:	94
Size:	27.8 KB
ID:	67294  
Nobby_UK is offline  
Old 12 May 2020, 19:51   #11
Nobby_UK
Registered User
Nobby_UK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 1,433
If we are taking Quake 2 = PPC (an accelerator of sorts):

SiN
Heretic II
Shogo: Mobile Armor Division
Nobby_UK is offline  
Old 12 May 2020, 21:08   #12
Solo Kazuki
Registered User
Solo Kazuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Poland
Posts: 868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobby_UK View Post
If we are taking Quake 2 = PPC
Nope.

Of Course there are PPC ports, but i was talking about 68k version.
Solo Kazuki is offline  
Old 12 May 2020, 23:37   #13
Daedalus
Registered User

Daedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dublin, then Glasgow
Posts: 4,759
Yeah, a lot of those were compiled for 68020, but that doesn't mean they're in any way playable on a 68020, just that they don't use '040- or '060-specific code.

I'm pretty sure Wing Commander didn't require an accelerator of any sort - it was a CD32 release after all.

Looking at the boxes of the games I have here:

- Payback's minimum requirements are an '020 and 16MB of RAM, which as already pointed out, is more RAM than an A1200 can address, so an accelerator is required in that case. Given it took an '060 to become playable, I shudder to think of what it ran like on an '020.

- WipeOut 2097 requires a PPC, so that's an accelerator requirement.

- Sim City 2000 only requires an '020 and 4MB of fast RAM, so that could in theory be played on an A1200 with just a RAM expansion.

- Foundation lists an '030 as a minimum requirement, though I suspect you could probably run it on an '020 if you really wanted to as they're so similar.

- Descent: Freespace has an '060, 64MB RAM and 3D hardware listed as minimum requirements, which puts it at about the heaviest commercial 68k game I know. Still, it was playable on that spec, which is an impressive achievement really.

- Earth2140 strangely doesn't list the requirements on the box, but the readme on the disc lists an 060, 24MB RAM and a Zorro-III graphics card at a minimum.
Daedalus is offline  
Old 13 May 2020, 10:03   #14
Solo Kazuki
Registered User
Solo Kazuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Poland
Posts: 868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
I'm pretty sure Wing Commander didn't require an accelerator of any sort - it was a CD32 release after all.
But to play fully fluent You need better processor. Especially without Akiko (it's one of rare games which use Akiko).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
Sim City 2000 only requires an '020 and 4MB of fast RAM, so that could in theory be played on an A1200 with just a RAM expansion.
But, again, You need better processor. Playing on plain A1200 with just fastram is not too comfortable.


Edit:
Some more games which are (what i mentioned earlier) should be played on better processor than 68000/68EC020.

Citadel / Cytadela
Gloom / Gloom Deluxe
Joyride
Ultimate XTreme Racing

Last edited by Solo Kazuki; 13 May 2020 at 12:47.
Solo Kazuki is offline  
Old 13 May 2020, 12:56   #15
Daedalus
Registered User

Daedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dublin, then Glasgow
Posts: 4,759
Fair enough. In that case there are many, many other games that should be added that only become properly playable when accelerated. Frontier, Birds of Prey, Gunship 2000, all those fall into that category. Playable is subjective, but the OP seems interested in games that absolutely require a higher CPU.
Daedalus is offline  
Old 13 May 2020, 14:33   #16
Juz400
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 105
Tried Simcity 2000 on my TF330, christ? did they convert it in amiga Basic?
I was expecting good things but it was almost unplayable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
Fair enough. In that case there are many, many other games that should be added that only become properly playable when accelerated. Frontier, Birds of Prey, Gunship 2000, all those fall into that category. Playable is subjective, but the OP seems interested in games that absolutely require a higher CPU.
an oldie but a goldie to add is Indy 500 from 1990, is quite playable on a basic A500 but absolutley Shines with an 030, even has an option to crank graphics slightly for faster machines.
Juz400 is offline  
Old 13 May 2020, 15:23   #17
lilwshu
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 23
When it came out I played SimCity 2000 on my standard 1200 with 2MB fast RAM, on a 14" CRT TV via RF (nice interlaced graphics), for hours at a time. I remember it being slow but playable (also cheap because hardly anyone had a machine capable of running it at all and shops were desperate to shift it).

25 years later, I have poor eyesight and a lack of patience.
lilwshu is offline  
Old 15 May 2020, 00:12   #18
xubidoo
Scoobydoo

xubidoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Accrington, UK
Posts: 341
i also played Frontier Elite II for many many hours on a standard A500+ ,yes its a bit slow but perfectly playable.

F1GP "should" have taken advantage of any extra speed available,but it didnt

Probably most Chess games take advantage of any speed increases, but even on the fastest setups they still take an age to make moves on higher difficulty levels.
xubidoo is offline  
Old 15 May 2020, 14:02   #19
zipper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: finland
Posts: 1,601
F1GP did greatly benefit of http://aminet.net/game/edit/F1GP-Ed.lha - 20 fps on 060 was pretty fluid (and I was happy to help testing it on my A500T - 060).
zipper is offline  
Old 15 May 2020, 14:28   #20
Fastdruid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by roondar View Post
*) Excluding the whole MMU business, which I do believe changed between chips. That said, MMU use is pretty rare on the Amiga so it's generally not a problem.
The 020 didn't have an MMU, it was external (the 020 could have up to 8 co-processors of which the 68851 MMU was one).

The 030 had an MMU but the "EC" versions didn't (eg the 68EC030 fitted to the A4000/030). 3rd party accelerators may or may not have an MMU depending on which chip is used.

Anything with Zorro III needed an MMU.
Fastdruid is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
68040 to 68060 adapter respin with A2000 and Zeus 68040 Accelerator richx support.Hardware 8 21 February 2020 14:55
68030, 68040 and 68060 MMU support (really!) Toni Wilen support.WinUAE 262 19 February 2019 12:36
Is it better to use 68060 under emulation, rather than 68040? Foebane support.WinUAE 13 07 July 2018 17:20
68040 vs 68060 tesla support.Hardware 10 20 April 2013 19:13
WTB: 68030 or 68040 accelerator for A2000 Shadowfire MarketPlace 2 19 September 2009 17:52

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.09741 seconds with 14 queries