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Old 02 January 2020, 14:18   #1
rabidgerry
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ACA1233-40 to ACA1233n-55 worth it??

I asked some of these questions before on an already existing thread, but I feel I need to start my own thread since I have been emailing Jens at Individual Computers and gotten some extra info from him.

Ok so I own a ACA1233n-EC40 and its great and runs very well on my A1200. However I really thought it would play the Amiga FPS games a lot better than it does at the moment. A couple of examples would be:

Gloom Deluxe, I still can't run this game in full detail and full screen, not without trading in some FramesPS. No videos I have saw on youtube of this game seem to run so much smoother than what I experience on my machine.

Breathless, runs ok but I have to reduce detail a little here to get it to run at a nice FPS. I figured I would not have to do this however using an accelerated A1200 since any native A1200 fps games were designed to run on basic machines or machines with only extra fastram.

and I know not originally an Amiga game but...…..
Doom Attack, runs great until there are a lot of sprites on the screen and I wouldn't want to drop the detail or reduce the size of the screen anymore with this game either, (I run it already with a border around the screen)

So would an ACA1233n-55 be a better accelerator for the job or would the difference be barely noticeable? Can anyone tell me from their own experience?

Info I got from Jens suggested the 55 would be 30% faster than the 40 but that this would not necessarily translate to 30% faster in games as copying from fastmem to chipmem still takes a fixed amount of time.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 02 January 2020, 14:44   #2
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55 MHz ACA in my opinion is overpriced and does not actually cost it's money. Even at 55 MHz 030 won't run FPS games well, and for most other tasks the 40MHz one is good already. You need a 040 or 060 CPU for 3d gaming and other "heavy" tasks, or Vampire 1200 if you can get one.
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Old 02 January 2020, 15:47   #3
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Jen's has hinted that an 040 and 060 card will appear this year with a base 040 25mhz option. Given the cost of vampires etc. I can't see this that costing much more than the 55mhz 030.

If you do buy a new card I have an ACA 500 plus in need of a boost

Last edited by LezRed; 02 January 2020 at 15:55.
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Old 02 January 2020, 18:45   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confusion View Post
55 MHz ACA in my opinion is overpriced and does not actually cost it's money. Even at 55 MHz 030 won't run FPS games well, and for most other tasks the 40MHz one is good already. You need a 040 or 060 CPU for 3d gaming and other "heavy" tasks, or Vampire 1200 if you can get one.
Well this is what I mean, would I actually get even a few extra frames per second? Perhaps I should just wait for these 040/060 cards.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LezRed View Post
Jen's has hinted that an 040 and 060 card will appear this year with a base 040 25mhz option. Given the cost of vampires etc. I can't see this that costing much more than the 55mhz 030.

If you do buy a new card I have an ACA 500 plus in need of a boost
HAHAHA well for your ACA500 to have got that boost you should have lied and just said "yeah get rid of your 1233n-40 and BUY THAT 1233n55"
Just joking. Well if I could get convinced I would benefit from the faster clocked model I would definitely hook you up as part of that money would go towards the new accelerator.

As I mentioned, perhaps I should just wait on the new accelerators by Jens.
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Old 02 January 2020, 19:57   #5
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Originally Posted by rabidgerry View Post
you should have lied and just said "yeah get rid of your 1233n-40 and BUY THAT 1233n55"

Believe me, the thought crossed my mind
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Old 02 January 2020, 20:31   #6
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I’ve got an ACA 1230/56 and I think it’s a great card and I’m happy with the price I paid for it. It won’t run Gloom Deluxe full screen at high FPS though and Doom ports only run ‘ok’. I’m almost positive I’ll be buying one of Jens’ 040 or 060 accelerators later this year (fingers crossed) so I’d suggest you just wait for those.
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Old 02 January 2020, 21:24   #7
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Originally Posted by vroom6sri View Post
I’ve got an ACA 1230/56 and I think it’s a great card and I’m happy with the price I paid for it. It won’t run Gloom Deluxe full screen at high FPS though and Doom ports only run ‘ok’. I’m almost positive I’ll be buying one of Jens’ 040 or 060 accelerators later this year (fingers crossed) so I’d suggest you just wait for those.

What is the benchmark of your card if you don't mind me asking?

I get about 9200 drystones in sysinfo

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Believe me, the thought crossed my mind
Appreciate the honesty mate
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Old 03 January 2020, 09:13   #8
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All I can tell you is that I get 18.73MIPS in SysSpeed as I don't seem to have SysInfo any more. I can't recall if that is good, bad or expected for a 56Mhz 030 processor.
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Old 03 January 2020, 10:12   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidgerry View Post
Well this is what I mean, would I actually get even a few extra frames per second?
Yes, you would get more FPS.

But...you would not get the performance you long for.

Better to go for the beefier cards. 040/060/Vamp1200
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Old 03 January 2020, 13:47   #10
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Yes, you would get more FPS.

But...you would not get the performance you long for.

Better to go for the beefier cards. 040/060/Vamp1200
Well that's what I was thinking

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All I can tell you is that I get 18.73MIPS in SysSpeed as I don't seem to have SysInfo any more. I can't recall if that is good, bad or expected for a 56Mhz 030 processor.
That's double the speed I get! I get 9.6mips

I don't see your card model here either

http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/ACA1233n#ACA_12xx_Benchmarks

How come yours is a lot faster than mine?

The only reason I'm asking as I'm starting to think it means bugger all really. The 1233-55n is 11763 drystones where as my card 1233n-40 is 9200 drystones so originally I was thinking that difference in number might have improved performance enough in games for me to decide to buy it but I guess it doesn't mean much after all if you want 3d FPS games to run well
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Old 03 January 2020, 16:56   #11
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I think the ACA1230 series were iComp's first A1200 accelerators that they released around late 2011/early 2012 if I remember correctly. I actually purchased a 1230/28 originally but then wanted more speed so I sold that one and picked up a second hand 1230/56 and I've been very happy with it. That being said, as long as their new 040/060 based accelerators cooperate well with my setup and the games/utils I like to use, I will no doubt sell my 1230/56 when I buy one of those super accelerators!
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Old 03 January 2020, 17:22   #12
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IIRC the values in SysInfo, SysSpeed and other Benchmarks generally differ widely. So for comparison it's necessary to use the same program.
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Old 03 January 2020, 21:32   #13
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I’ve used Sysinfo now and get 12.2 Mips there so about 33% faster.
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Old 03 January 2020, 21:44   #14
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the 040/25 mhz in sysinfo= 19 mips ,is 2x the speed of a 030/50
040/40 mhz = 30 mips
040/50mhz = 38 mips like the 060/50

the 030 is a turtle compared to the 040 and 060
yet none of them are enough fast to play some FPS games like quake or AB3D2
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Old 03 January 2020, 23:28   #15
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the 040/25 mhz in sysinfo= 19 mips ,is 2x the speed of a 030/50
040/40 mhz = 30 mips
040/50mhz = 38 mips like the 060/50

the 030 is a turtle compared to the 040 and 060
yet none of them are enough fast to play some FPS games like quake or AB3D2
You are saying a 040 is not fast enough to play a native Amiga FPS (Alien Breed 3d 2)?

Really? Can anyone else vouch for that? I dunno how that could be possible given it runs on a 030 no sweat.
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Old 04 January 2020, 04:25   #16
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SysInfo and SysSpeed report different results for their MIPS benchmarks, the actual difference is somewhat minor. In reality, a game that is slow on your card would only be slightly less slow on the 1230/56.

If any of these games are system friendly, there are software tweaks that might help a little. However, since you're really serious about 3D, I would go straight to the '060--you'll have the best experience possible (you can even play Quake if you want, albeit a bit slow) yet also maintain reasonably good compatibility with the older WHDLoad titles. If you want to try Mac emulation, you'll have enough horsepower for 3D (and other) games on that platform too (the Marathon series, if I recall right, ran pretty well on an '060/AGA).

I know this stands contrary to what I wrote in the other thread, but solely between the two '030 cards, there might be something said for keeping the 1230/40. It's nearly as fast as the higher-clocked Blizzard IV card (IIRC), yet won't be pushed to the edge of madness like the 56MHz variant.
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Old 04 January 2020, 11:39   #17
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Also, you could wait a little bit for the first Vampire 1200 adopters' experiences and see how those cards fare with heavy 3D tasks.
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Old 04 January 2020, 16:35   #18
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Originally Posted by rabidgerry View Post
You are saying a 040 is not fast enough to play a native Amiga FPS (Alien Breed 3d 2)?

Really? Can anyone else vouch for that? I dunno how that could be possible given it runs on a 030 no sweat.
ALien breed 3d2 is really playlable only in winuae because it reach the maximum engine fps which is 39 and the game becomes very smooth

on a 030/50 Alien breed 3d2 is not playlable ,you must play it in a small screen, not reach not even 10 fps there

the 040 and 060 are faster in this game but also not playlable in my point of view because if you set full screen the game is yet very slow never reach more than 8 or 9 fps
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Old 06 January 2020, 16:29   #19
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As you may know I have my TF330 full 030 accelerator clocked to 54mhz getting about 10.5mips in sysinfo. This is my fastest Amiga but it still isn't enough for 1x1 pixel gaming in gloom deluxe, breathless etc. Dooms runs at about 12fps in low detail and 2 screen sizes down.

If you want to play the Amiga 3D FPS games full screen and 1x1 pixel you need to forget the 030 it just doesn't have the horsepower. The TF1260 might be the best bang for buck card once its released, I know I'll be watching for it.

If you want to play doom or quake or any of the PC FPS game then use your PC, not an Amiga.
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Old 07 January 2020, 21:34   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damion View Post
SysInfo and SysSpeed report different results for their MIPS benchmarks, the actual difference is somewhat minor. In reality, a game that is slow on your card would only be slightly less slow on the 1230/56.

If any of these games are system friendly, there are software tweaks that might help a little. However, since you're really serious about 3D, I would go straight to the '060--you'll have the best experience possible (you can even play Quake if you want, albeit a bit slow) yet also maintain reasonably good compatibility with the older WHDLoad titles. If you want to try Mac emulation, you'll have enough horsepower for 3D (and other) games on that platform too (the Marathon series, if I recall right, ran pretty well on an '060/AGA).

I know this stands contrary to what I wrote in the other thread, but solely between the two '030 cards, there might be something said for keeping the 1230/40. It's nearly as fast as the higher-clocked Blizzard IV card (IIRC), yet won't be pushed to the edge of madness like the 56MHz variant.
Still curious bout that 1230/56 you own and why it's not listed on the individual computers list with all the bench marks. Its an ACA1230 right?

Anyways, I don't demand the earth, and I was thinking a 040 would do the job. I saw a video of Gloom Deluxe running flat out in full detail on a 4000 with 040 on youtube and that looked great. You think I need to go to 060? Never ever played Quake so not sure I know what I'm missing. Wouldn't mind Duke 3D though. Not really interested in the MAC emulation.

So if a 040 is like double the speed of a 030 at about 50hz is the 060 double the 040?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Aga View Post
Also, you could wait a little bit for the first Vampire 1200 adopters' experiences and see how those cards fare with heavy 3D tasks.
I can't see me getting the vampire as it's way too expensive. And it's emulation right? I know there are arguments for that and against that.

Just can't see me getting this.

But Defo a 040 0r 060.

Quote:
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As you may know I have my TF330 full 030 accelerator clocked to 54mhz getting about 10.5mips in sysinfo. This is my fastest Amiga but it still isn't enough for 1x1 pixel gaming in gloom deluxe, breathless etc. Dooms runs at about 12fps in low detail and 2 screen sizes down.

If you want to play the Amiga 3D FPS games full screen and 1x1 pixel you need to forget the 030 it just doesn't have the horsepower. The TF1260 might be the best bang for buck card once its released, I know I'll be watching for it.

If you want to play doom or quake or any of the PC FPS game then use your PC, not an Amiga.
Ok consider the 030 forgotten about. It's coming down to the question, am I getting a 040 or 060 card now really. Will wait for Jens new cards because they will come with on board cooling and I'm sure have a lot of down gradable options like on the other cards such as my 1233n-40.
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