English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Amiga scene

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 18 May 2020, 13:04   #461
Thomas Richter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 471
A 3.1 Kickstart for an A2000 works in an A2000, for obvious reasons. A "whatever 3.1 Kickstart" does not. So, no, "in general" it does not work. Kickstarts are machine dependent, and were at least up to 3.1, CPU dependent and chipset dependent. The latter two dependencies no longer hold, but other dependencies still exist, unfortunately.
Thomas Richter is offline  
Old 18 May 2020, 13:04   #462
McTrinsic
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 491
3.1 ROM(s) are machine-specific.
There is a 3.1 ROM release for e.g. Amiga 500 that will run on an Amiga 500.
3.1 ROMs for an A1200 will run in an A1200 but not in an OCS/ECS machine.

The thing is, there is non suich thing as "a 3.1 ROM".
There are only machine-dependent variants of that.
McTrinsic is offline  
Old 18 May 2020, 13:47   #463
amigo1
Registered User

 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Cork/Gallia
Posts: 21
All right, we are getting there

Apparently we have a different understanding of the wording "in general"

I will keep that in mind for the future.

In this context "in general" referred to the kickstart contained in the package know as AmigaOS 3.1. The "Kickstart" meant as a product, not as a specific Kickstart chip compiled for a specific Amiga model. not as a specific Kickstart chip containing compiled code for a specific Amiga model.

That said, as far as I know, there has never been an AmigaOS 3.1 package released for the Amiga 1000 computer.

So "in general" AmigaOS 3.1 works on Amiga500, Amiga600, Amiga2000, Amiga2500, Amiga 3000, Amiga1200, Amiga4000.
More specifically the Kickstart 3.1 officially works on these machines.
Even more specific, a specific ROM for your specific machine Model is needed as the ROMs are machine-dependant.

So then, "Kickstart 3.1" generally works on 68000 if you use it on a Commodore Amiga computer that was released with a 68000 CPU and the officially sold ROM which has been released for your specific Amiga model.
So then, "Kickstart 3.1" generally speaking, works on 68000 (built-in in a supported Amiga) if you have the ROM released/sold for your specific Amiga Model.

All right, I hope I entertained you with my arising self-doubt to explain my thoughts to you regarding this matter. If in any of my prevous posts I sounded offensive, I specifically tell you now, it was not meant to be.
All right, I hope I entertained you with my arising self-doubt to express myself to you. If in any of my previous posts I sounded offensive, I specifically tell you now, it was not meant to offend you.

Keep up the good work on AmigaOS 3.2!

Last edited by amigo1; 18 May 2020 at 16:06. Reason: tried to make the wording more clear, as an exercise for me personally, and others who might read it.
amigo1 is offline  
Old 18 May 2020, 14:59   #464
DamienD
disengaged
DamienD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: London / Sydney
Age: 43
Posts: 16,305
Now, now children.

Hewitson & britelite; you guys clearly don't get along, just ignore each other. It's that simple...

All your off topic post / bickering has now been deleted.
DamienD is offline  
Old 19 May 2020, 01:57   #465
coldacid
Registered User

coldacid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Canada
Posts: 158
So at this point, I'm wondering: Do I buy 3.1.4 to put on the V4S I intend to buy with a portion of my tax refund or do I wait for 3.2? In other words, what does the timeline look like for 3.2's release?
coldacid is offline  
Old 19 May 2020, 03:18   #466
gulliver
BoingBagged

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The South of nowhere
Age: 42
Posts: 2,149
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldacid View Post
So at this point, I'm wondering: Do I buy 3.1.4 to put on the V4S I intend to buy with a portion of my tax refund or do I wait for 3.2? In other words, what does the timeline look like for 3.2's release?
My advice is to wait for that V4S to arrive before purchasing anything related to it. The manufacturer seems to have production and logistic issues.
gulliver is offline  
Old 21 May 2020, 12:24   #467
PurpleMelbourne
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Melbourne / Australia
Posts: 71
Coldfire support can buy us time while we try to figure out our post Motorola 68K future.

We can make the hardware, but we cant build cheap fast 68K CPU's. If AmigaOS could be compiled for the half 68K compatible Coldfire, and support a second CPU which is actual 68K CPU, then over time software can be recompiled for coldfire while the majority of stuff runs on the 68K. Advantage being that without running the OS that the 68K chip will be a little bit faster too.

Heavy software like Quake which needs an expensive 060 could get better speed on a cheaper Coldfire.

MC68040 + V4e 200-266Mhz Coldfire would be both cheaper than 060, while also being higher performance than even a 120MHz 060.

Maybe we'll all be running 350MHz 68080's in a few years... And they add Coldfire instructions to complete 68K/Colfire compatibility...

First we can be running cheap 266Mhz V4e Coldfire + 68040 Gemini dual core Amiga's to celebrate Christmas this year when WB3.2 allows it :-)
PurpleMelbourne is offline  
Old 21 May 2020, 12:35   #468
PurpleMelbourne
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Melbourne / Australia
Posts: 71
For new Amiga compatibles, how about a two part ROM.

Device specific ROM and Generic hardware abstracted ROM.

Atari ST could run Amiga and finally get a decent OS
PurpleMelbourne is offline  
Old 21 May 2020, 15:24   #469
Samurai_Crow
Total Chaos forever!

Samurai_Crow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ft. Collins, CO USA
Age: 45
Posts: 1,442
Send a message via Yahoo to Samurai_Crow
@PurpleMelbourne

Coldfire encodings conflict with existing 68060 instructions. 68080 is a pretty good idea but Coldfire is a bad idea all around. That's why Coldfire is so cheap.
Samurai_Crow is offline  
Old 21 May 2020, 15:47   #470
PurpleMelbourne
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Melbourne / Australia
Posts: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow View Post
@PurpleMelbourne

Coldfire encodings conflict with existing 68060 instructions. 68080 is a pretty good idea but Coldfire is a bad idea all around. That's why Coldfire is so cheap.
And 060's so expensive. Sigh.
PurpleMelbourne is offline  
Old 21 May 2020, 17:28   #471
Steril707
Tigerskunk!

Steril707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Amiga Island
Posts: 1,503
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleMelbourne View Post
Coldfire support can buy us time while we try to figure out our post Motorola 68K future.

We can make the hardware, but we cant build cheap fast 68K CPU's. If AmigaOS could be compiled for the half 68K compatible Coldfire, and support a second CPU which is actual 68K CPU, then over time software can be recompiled for coldfire while the majority of stuff runs on the 68K. Advantage being that without running the OS that the 68K chip will be a little bit faster too.

Heavy software like Quake which needs an expensive 060 could get better speed on a cheaper Coldfire.

MC68040 + V4e 200-266Mhz Coldfire would be both cheaper than 060, while also being higher performance than even a 120MHz 060.

Maybe we'll all be running 350MHz 68080's in a few years... And they add Coldfire instructions to complete 68K/Colfire compatibility...

First we can be running cheap 266Mhz V4e Coldfire + 68040 Gemini dual core Amiga's to celebrate Christmas this year when WB3.2 allows it :-)
There would be literally no software for Coldfire CPUs.
The Atari scene tried that ten years ago with the Firebee, and apart from being an interesting experiment, nothing much every grew out of it as far as I know.

The 68080 FPGA way is the right one to go, imo.
Steril707 is offline  
Old 21 May 2020, 17:35   #472
AJCopland
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Beeston, Nottinghamshire, UK
Posts: 177
I think FPGA based CPU's are the future, whether that's TG68k, 68080, or whatever comes out of http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=100729

Cards like the Warp1260 are amazing, like the last great 68060 card possible since there's no new chips and so many fakes out of China.

Is there any benefit to compiling the Kickstarts for higher end CPUs?
Or (re)writing 68000 asm parts for 68020+ CPUs?
AJCopland is offline  
Old 21 May 2020, 19:22   #473
markpaterson
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Bay Area / USA
Posts: 28
What is the current rough ETA on a 3.2 release? I'm about to drop some money on 3.1.4 but if it's only a couple of months away I might wait as I assume it will not be a free up or discounted upgrade from 3.1.4.
markpaterson is offline  
Old 21 May 2020, 21:02   #474
gulliver
BoingBagged

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The South of nowhere
Age: 42
Posts: 2,149
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpaterson View Post
What is the current rough ETA on a 3.2 release? I'm about to drop some money on 3.1.4 but if it's only a couple of months away I might wait as I assume it will not be a free up or discounted upgrade from 3.1.4.
We have internal target dates and goals.

They are not public because they depend on a lot of internal and external factors.

To understand a bit why this is a complex matter in software development, please watch the video on this blog (which happens to authored by a well known Amiga developer, not by any of us):

https://keasigmadelta.com/blog/when-...tware-project/
gulliver is offline  
Old 21 May 2020, 21:20   #475
Fastdruid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 144
Not to mention the Osborne effect!
Fastdruid is offline  
Old 22 May 2020, 00:00   #476
markpaterson
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Bay Area / USA
Posts: 28
Understood! I'll buy the current version and then just buy 3.2 whenever that becomes available (though a discount would be nice for recent purchases at least). I'm happy to support active Amiga development, wherever it may come from!

EUR 30 / $32 is not an outrageous price either. That's less than a meal for two at a chain restaurant, and think of how much money we're all saving in quarantine!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulliver View Post
We have internal target dates and goals.

They are not public because they depend on a lot of internal and external factors.

To understand a bit why this is a complex matter in software development, please watch the video on this blog (which happens to authored by a well known Amiga developer, not by any of us):

https://keasigmadelta.com/blog/when-...tware-project/
markpaterson is offline  
Old 22 May 2020, 00:22   #477
Gorf
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Munich/Bavaria
Posts: 1,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpaterson View Post
Understood! I'll buy the current version and then just buy 3.2 whenever that becomes available (though a discount would be nice for recent purchases at least). I'm happy to support active Amiga development, wherever it may come from!

EUR 30 / $32 is not an outrageous price either. That's less than a meal for two at a chain restaurant, and think of how much money we're all saving in quarantine!
yeah - sure a lot of people save money by not getting paid like the waiter in the closed restaurant ...
Gorf is offline  
Old 22 May 2020, 17:57   #478
vxm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 79
Hello

Would it be possible to extend the amigaguide.library (and maybe multiview) to display text and image simultaneously in a help file?

Because, launching a web browser to do it, is a bit heavy.

NB: Thanks for updating OS 3.1.4 (1) and for the upcoming 3.2.

Last edited by vxm; 22 May 2020 at 18:05.
vxm is offline  
Old 22 May 2020, 17:57   #479
eXeler0
Registered User

eXeler0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 46
Posts: 1,713
Quote:
Originally Posted by gulliver View Post
We have internal target dates and goals.

They are not public because they depend on a lot of internal and external factors.

To understand a bit why this is a complex matter in software development, please watch the video on this blog (which happens to authored by a well known Amiga developer, not by any of us):

https://keasigmadelta.com/blog/when-...tware-project/
I wouldn't really expect exact feature lists or precise deadline, but it seems you do have a list of stuff to add to 3.2 and the stuff that will not make it but probably in a future release. That reasoning alone would mean you do have fairly clear vision of where you're drawing the line for this release.
So I'll rather ask this: Approximate timeframe when will be comfortable with sharing a "locked down" feature list (no dates attached)?
eXeler0 is offline  
Old 22 May 2020, 21:50   #480
gulliver
BoingBagged

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The South of nowhere
Age: 42
Posts: 2,149
@vxm

Added to the feature request list. It is being considered.

@eXelr0

I really don't know because we are still adding features. And then, after extensive testing I am sure a couple of features will be discarded or modified (that is how usual development goes).

I am a man of my word, and would like not to give false hopes on dates.

I know you are anxious. We, and I mean all developers, are anxious too.

AmigaOS 3.2 is absolutely fantastic. And you are all going to like it. It has tons of improvements all over the place. It is definately a game changer.

3.2 is no minor fix or small update.
gulliver is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (1 members and 1 guests)
benmatthew
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AmigaOS 3.1.x v 3.9 steve_mynott New to Emulation or Amiga scene 35 19 April 2020 06:23
AmigaOS 3.9 PoLoMoTo support.WinUAE 8 27 August 2011 18:06
AmigaOS 3.5 or 3.9 maddoc666 support.Apps 12 22 February 2010 08:02
AmigaOS koncool request.Apps 6 04 June 2003 17:45
AmigaOS XL sturme New to Emulation or Amiga scene 4 15 January 2002 02:13

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.11544 seconds with 16 queries