English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Amiga scene

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 28 April 2020, 00:26   #21
coldacid
Registered User

coldacid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Canada
Posts: 157
m68k is just as dead, though, and I'd argue that the only reason that OS4 is limited to a few specific PPC board architectures is the fault of Hyperion and/or the ongoing legal dramas rather than anything technical. But here we are all the same.
coldacid is offline  
Old 28 April 2020, 01:09   #22
nikosidis
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: oslo/norway
Posts: 230
Everything Amiga NG is over a long time ago. What is the point? Is there any problem with modern operative systems? Amiga is 68k classic. That platform is more alive than in a long time. Is there ever released a demo scene production, a good original game for NG Amiga? Even if there is it is so few that you can count on one hand. Totally boring platform.
nikosidis is offline  
Old 28 April 2020, 01:22   #23
Gorf
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Munich/Bavaria
Posts: 1,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldacid View Post
m68k is just as dead, though, and I'd argue that the only reason that OS4 is limited to a few specific PPC board architectures is the fault of Hyperion and/or the ongoing legal dramas rather than anything technical. But here we are all the same.
it does not matter who's technical fault the technical limitations are - they exist.

68K is even longer dead ... but it has still a far bigger install base. And if you are going to emulate it on a PC the denser 68K code is even faster than emulated PPC code... So any advantage PPC ever had is long gone.

(And I do have a CyberstormPPC in my A3000!)
Gorf is offline  
Old 28 April 2020, 01:23   #24
Gorf
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Munich/Bavaria
Posts: 1,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikosidis View Post
Is there any problem with modern operative systems?
Plenty! Don't get me started!
Gorf is offline  
Old 28 April 2020, 01:56   #25
coldacid
Registered User

coldacid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Canada
Posts: 157
I'd rather not be emulating it, but without hardware availability, not much can be done. I want to buy a Tabor, but not if it's going to take forever to arrive and essentially be a paperweight because there's nothing to run on it.
coldacid is offline  
Old 28 April 2020, 05:41   #26
Bruce Abbott
Registered User

Bruce Abbott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Hastings, New Zealand
Posts: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikosidis View Post
Everything Amiga NG is over a long time ago. What is the point? Is there any problem with modern operative systems? Amiga is 68k classic. That platform is more alive than in a long time. Is there ever released a demo scene production, a good original game for NG Amiga? Even if there is it is so few that you can count on one hand. Totally boring platform.
I agree. There are hundreds of games for classic Amiga that I never had 'back in the day' which are now free downloads. On OS4? Nothing. PPC development is boring too. I'm still learning how to program for classic Amiga OS in assembler (which I love doing). What's the incentive to develop for OS4?

The only reason to go for OS4 was to have a faster machine to run those games and apps that needed it, but now PPC is too slow too. If you really need the speed (or the compatibility) you just use a PC. And I'm still running Xp, so my PC is a classic too!

When the decision to go PPC was made I said it was a mistake. 25 years and a lot of wasted effort later, that has been proved right. But against all odds the classic Amiga scene has revived itself, taking advantage of modern hardware to make it better than ever! Which is why we need further development of OS3, not OS4.
Bruce Abbott is offline  
Old 28 April 2020, 07:48   #27
Steril707
Tigerskunk!

Steril707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Amiga Island
Posts: 1,495
Yep, OS3/68K is where it's at (again) now.
Steril707 is offline  
Old 28 April 2020, 13:00   #28
ealm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Vienna
Posts: 17
The future is 68k, FPGA, ARM, OS3.x and AROS. These technologies can evolve dynamically, in small steps with an active fanbase, a lot of good legacy software and hardware, driven by nostalgia and pure joy.

The AOS4/PPC ecosystem is heavy, slow, expensive, silent.
ealm is offline  
Old 28 April 2020, 13:26   #29
Nostromo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: The World!
Posts: 439
I think MorphOS stands a chance once (and if) it becomes more accessible by moving to x86/x64. Certainly I would prefer it to ARM or AROS.
Nostromo is offline  
Old 28 April 2020, 13:50   #30
jPV
Registered User
jPV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: RNO
Posts: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikosidis View Post
Is there ever released a demo scene production, a good original game for NG Amiga? Even if there is it is so few that you can count on one hand. Totally boring platform.
Quite harshly said and generalizing a bit too much. Amount of games doesn't define if a platform is interesting for everyone. I hardly have time to play anything, and I only test a fraction of games released on NG platforms, but I still find them very interesting platforms. I spend my time by other activities with them and enjoy a lot.

And there are many NG only games released during the years... and of course they have ports of mainstream games much more than it's possible to port for 68k.
jPV is offline  
Old 28 April 2020, 14:11   #31
Nostromo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: The World!
Posts: 439
I think there is also the nostalgia factor. When I tell friends who had Amiga in the past, about Amiga NG systems, the first question is, so how do I run the games? Then I tell them, and they stop caring. It is Classic Amiga were the nostalgia lies, and it has been never so obvious.
Nostromo is offline  
Old 28 April 2020, 14:15   #32
Pyromania
Moderator

Pyromania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,446
It’s great customers have plenty of choices in 2020.
Pyromania is offline  
Old 28 April 2020, 14:30   #33
jPV
Registered User
jPV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: RNO
Posts: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostromo View Post
I think there is also the nostalgia factor. When I tell friends who had Amiga in the past, about Amiga NG systems, the first question is, so how do I run the games? Then I tell them, and they stop caring. It is Classic Amiga were the nostalgia lies, and it has been never so obvious.
But have these friends bought any new classic hardware lately either? I think most of these people have just moved on and don't care that much in any case.

And of course you can't deny the fact that for the biggest audience Amiga was a games machine and they didn't care much about the "computing" aspect back then either. But those who used their Amigas for anything else would probably respect new developments on the OS front, but of course the percentages go to gamers. I just don't understand this loud dissing from certain people... like it would be something off from them to have these choices and efforts.
jPV is offline  
Old 28 April 2020, 15:01   #34
Samurai_Crow
Total Chaos forever!

Samurai_Crow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ft. Collins, CO USA
Age: 45
Posts: 1,439
Send a message via Yahoo to Samurai_Crow
AEon's contribution to Warp3d Nova and the associated Radeon drivers are substantial, although they don't come standard with AmigaOS 4.1. The OpenGL ES 2.0 wrapper for it is valuable as well.

I think the rest of the OS is pretty inconsequential though. I have an old MicroA1 with the latest version of the OS and without the latest graphics chipsets, I can't think of a use for it other than Hollywood which runs better on my PPC Mac Mini under MorphOS.

What will my next computer purchase be? Tabor and X5000 aren't even blips on the radar compared to the Pinebook Pro laptop that ARM AROS will likely target.
Samurai_Crow is offline  
Old 28 April 2020, 15:57   #35
coldacid
Registered User

coldacid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Canada
Posts: 157
Given that you can't get an X5000 for less than three grand these days (after the conversion from GBP) it shouldn't be a blip on anyone's radar.

Honestly I still feel like a big part of the reason that OS4 has been a flop is because it's far more limited in where it can run. Unlike m68k hardware which is practically ubiquitous, the only options for OS4 are emulation, classics with a CyberstormPPC, or a small set of boards blessed by the touch of Hyperion. There's plenty of PPC hardware out there it could have run on, but it would have meant less control (and/or money) for Ben Hermans.

Y'know what, I'm just going to blame him for it.
coldacid is offline  
Old 28 April 2020, 19:55   #36
Samurai_Crow
Total Chaos forever!

Samurai_Crow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ft. Collins, CO USA
Age: 45
Posts: 1,439
Send a message via Yahoo to Samurai_Crow
They were already getting greedy about naming rights at the '98 DevCon in St. Louis.
Samurai_Crow is offline  
Old 28 April 2020, 21:36   #37
Nostromo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: The World!
Posts: 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by jPV View Post
But have these friends bought any new classic hardware lately either?
Two of them bought MiSTer set ups to play Amiga classic games.
Nostromo is offline  
Old 28 April 2020, 21:55   #38
Gorf
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Munich/Bavaria
Posts: 1,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldacid View Post
There's plenty of PPC hardware out there it could have run on, but it would have meant less control (and/or money) for Ben Hermans.
And that was the tragic and stupid miscalculation: it only meant LESS customers and LESS money.

Even the support for the Phase5 hardware came way too late ... and it should have supported macs and ppc-mac-clone manufacturer right from the start.
(Theses clone companies where desperate after Apple ended licensing their ROMs and would have been happy for every alternative)
Gorf is offline  
Old 28 April 2020, 22:29   #39
saimon69
J.M.D - Bedroom Musician

 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: los angeles,ca
Posts: 1,407
Every time i say something about this topic i get roasted, but in my personal opinion honestly as marketing, target, developers and community public relations, OS4 occupies definitely more than a chapter on the "how NOT to revive a platform" handbook, and that reflects on the health of the platform too, sooner or later
saimon69 is offline  
Old 28 April 2020, 22:41   #40
Bruce Abbott
Registered User

Bruce Abbott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Hastings, New Zealand
Posts: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by jPV View Post
But have these friends bought any new classic hardware lately either? I think most of these people have just moved on and don't care that much in any case.
People who were teenagers in the Amiga's heyday are now middle-aged and getting the nostalgia bug, rediscovering those great games and reliving their youth. The prices of old Amigas have shot up due to demand, and fans are doing stuff that was unimaginable 'back in the day' - such as reproducing an entire motherboard, making new cases etc. to keep them going.

The ability for anyone to design new hardware and have it manufactured at low cost has revolutionized the market. Now we can have all the stuff we dreamed of but couldn't afford as teenagers, and more! And all the software too, now downloadable from the net and conveniently running from a CF card.

It's taken a while, but the Amiga scene is now better than ever. We are no longer in the grip of PC envy, and so are free to appreciate the Amiga for what it is. Perhaps one reason it took so long is that we had to let PCs get so far ahead that the comparison was no longer relevant. By attempting to stay relevant the 'NG' Amiga platform worked against making the break. It demoralized classic Amiga owners and gave false hope to the few 'serious' users who couldn't see the writing on the wall.

Quote:
And of course you can't deny the fact that for the biggest audience Amiga was a games machine and they didn't care much about the "computing" aspect back then either.
But a lot of us did care, far more than PC users (for which it was mostly just a business tool, and later a gaming platform). Even those who 'just' used it to play games appreciated the technology. Demos were universally popular because they showed off the machine's capabilities, and pimping your Amiga was also a popular 'game' (as it still is today) - even if that just meant some trapdoor RAM or a new kickstart ROM.

Quote:
I just don't understand this loud dissing from certain people... like it would be something off from them to have these choices and efforts.
It's because we had 20 years of being told our classic Amigas were not worth having and PPC/OS4 was the way of the future. The truth (which was obvious to anyone with a brain) was that PCs were the way of the future and 'NG' Amigas would never compete.

I was a true believer (using an A3000 with 060 and RTG, Ethernet card etc. in my business) but when Pentium PCs reached 200MHz I could see it was no use trying to keep up. 10 Years later I looked at getting an 'NG' Amiga, but realized it was pointless. Luckily I kept my A1200 though - it now gets about the same amount of use as my PC!
Bruce Abbott is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Amiga Dream 026 alexh AMR suggestions and feedback 0 03 December 2018 14:46
Your Amiga Dream Team lordofchaos Retrogaming General Discussion 15 07 March 2016 23:04
Wonderland: Dream The Dream... alkis21 Games images which need to be WHDified 12 15 May 2013 21:16
What would a dream Amiga System be? Mangar MarketPlace 18 27 August 2007 23:04
Wonderland: Dream The Dream Stig request.Old Rare Games 4 12 July 2005 12:04

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.09859 seconds with 15 queries