War?

[michaelz]

Apparently Hyperion is currently attacking Cloanto on several trademarks. amiga-news.de has the story about it.

[Locutus]

Yup, its popcorn time

[michaelz]

Originally Posted by Locutus

Yup, its popcorn time

Well, I don't think it's good for us
Hyperion is partially owned by A-Eon. A-Eon registered Amiga Technologies in the U.K.

This makes it a tough one on Cloanto. Cloanto does seem to have the copyright, but is c(I guess) the smaller team in resources.

The biggest predators are now going on the loose I think. In worthiness to the community, I have more sympathy for Cloanto. They appear to be more on our hand, than trying to get cash from our pockets

[E-Penguin]

Never been so much fun!

[Lonewolf10]

This can't be a good thing. Surely they should work together for future Amiga endeavours?

[ferrellsl]

Typical of Hyperion....unable to innovate so they litigate.....

[ptyerman]

Wondered how long it would be before Hyperion started "something" once they released the recent 3.1 update.
Not long at all it seems!
I hope Cloanto puts up a fight and comes out on top. Hyperion are nothing but douchbags!

[idrougge]

All hail Cloanto, the great innovators. Who else could come up with such innovative way to package freeware emulators?

What have Hyperion done in comparison? An operating system? That's not innovative.

[michaelz]

Originally Posted by idrougge

All hail Cloanto, the great innovators. Who else could come up with such innovative way to package freeware emulators?

What have Hyperion done in comparison? An operating system? That's not innovative.

Cloanto also has an operating system. They appear to be the copyright owners of everything Commodore wrote until their demise (and came with Kickstart and Workbench 3.X).

Hyperion "just has" a license after a lawsuit against Amiga Inc, they don't own it. My bet; they are partially owned by A-Eon, that registered Amiga Technologies Ins about a week or two ago. Hyperion bought P96 with iComp recently. They are using a Tramiel tactic to get everything Amiga under one roof.

[ptyerman]

And lets hope that doesn't happen here! My guess is a lot of this is coming from A-Eon who are using Hyperion to hide behind. Having everything owned by them does not bode well I don't think.
A wolf in sheep's clothing may be in the process of being revealed here!

[ferrellsl]

Originally Posted by idrougge

All hail Cloanto, the great innovators. Who else could come up with such innovative way to package freeware emulators?

What have Hyperion done in comparison? An operating system? That's not innovative.

A dead-end operating system on dead-end PPC hardware. Hyperion has been sniffing around for months to find a way to make money from the renewed interest in classic Amigas spurred on by the Vampire. Why else would they start releasing their own classic ROMs?

[Overflow]

I dont see packaging free emulators like a problem. They make the process/userfriendlyness higher, which some might enjoy.

Its almost comparable to mobile phone companies. Repackage goverment/tax payer inventions/tech into pretty and functional devices.

And Hyperion should be careful about pushing too hard on the litigation, as Apollo Team has renewed the intrest into AROS, and if AOS3.x becomes a shitshow for lawyers; I think more than me will decide that AROS is the only sane way forward.

[ptyerman]

While Hyperion are certainly involved, it may be wise to take a "wait and see" attitude on this while more probing is done on the origin of these applications.
Hyperion don't have the money to risk on lawsuits. A-Eon however do, and they have quite a say in Hyperion's running after the bailout. My bet is a lot of this is coming from behind Hyperion.

[DrBong]

Originally Posted by idrougge

All hail Cloanto, the great innovators. Who else could come up with such innovative way to package freeware emulators?

What have Hyperion done in comparison? An operating system? That's not innovative.

Originally Posted by michaelz

Cloanto also has an operating system. They appear to be the copyright owners of everything Commodore wrote until their demise (and came with Kickstart and Workbench 3.X).

Hyperion "just has" a license after a lawsuit against Amiga Inc, they don't own it.

What proof do you have that Cloanto "own" everything C= developed, including all the Kickstart roms and Workbench releases?? Cloanto directly refute what you say on their own website and state that they hold licenses granted to them by Amiga, Inc., with the right to sub-license to other parties for emulation or other purposes. Have a read for yourself!

https://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-122

[michaelz]

Originally Posted by DrBong

What proof do you have that Cloanto "own" everything C= developed, including all the Kickstart roms and Workbench releases?? Cloanto directly refute what you say on their own website and state that they hold licenses granted to them by Amiga, Inc., with the right to sub-license to other parties for emulation or other purposes. Have a read for yourself!

https://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-122

My point is there as well, so please read before posting;

For maximum public clarity, deposits of works by Cloanto and assignments of Commodore-Amiga copyrights to Cloanto up to Amiga ROM and OS version 3.x were also deposited at the US Copyright Office in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2016 and 2017. This was in addition to the existing licenses, which remain in effect (even without an additional, explicit copyright assignment).

In addition to the original ROM and operating system files, open source projects such as AROS provide some compatibility with the original system. AROS is both free and easy to license, and includes a 68K build (a project sponsored by Cloanto) with binary compatibility option.

As you can verify at the US Copyright Office, kickstart and workbench are in Cloanto's hands.

Besides, Cloanto sponsors AROS 68k. Hyperion and A-Eon just appear to buy intellectual property and squeeze the lemon as far as I can verify.

[DrBong]

@michaelz
What you quoted above still does not mean that they "own" anything. The licenses granted to them by AInc. presumably are still in effect. If that had changed and AInc had sold KS/WB outright to them, they would've stated it point blank on their website. They haven't AFAI can see. Can you explain this??

"At the end of 2009, in a settlement agreement between Amiga, Inc. (Delaware) and Hyperion Entertainment VOF, the following licensees were listed: Cloanto Italia srl, Haage & Partner Computer GmbH, Data Storage Advisors AG, eGames, Inc., On Broadband Networks, LLC, Envizions, Inc., and Ironstone Partners (until 2015).

Various licenses were reconfirmed in a 2011 agreement between Cloanto and Amiga, Inc. (Delaware). These include the right to sublicense, and are not limited to emulation purposes."

[michaelz]

Originally Posted by DrBong

@michaelz

Which still does not mean that they "own" anything. The licenses granted to them by AInc. are still in effect. If that had changed, they would've stated it point blank. They haven't. 'nuff said!



At the end of 2009, in a settlement agreement between Amiga, Inc. (Delaware) and Hyperion Entertainment VOF, the following licensees were listed: Cloanto Italia srl, Haage & Partner Computer GmbH, Data Storage Advisors AG, eGames, Inc., On Broadband Networks, LLC, Envizions, Inc., and Ironstone Partners (until 2015).



Various licenses were reconfirmed in a 2011 agreement between Cloanto and Amiga, Inc. (Delaware). These include the right to sublicense, and are not limited to emulation purposes.

Not recent enough. http://amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2015-02-00027-EN.html

Cloanto owns the Amiga Forever and Workbench trademarks and the copyrights to the Commodore/Amiga works as described above.

And

While Cloanto's agreements, according to Battilana, cover everything created by Commodore/Amiga up to 1993, not all of the copyrighted works are listed in the public database.

[DrBong]

@michaelz
I stand corrected, but why not put it on their website if the deal was done back in 2012?? Why do people have to try and hunt down this info. on other websites. It doesn't really bode well for Cloanto to be taken seriously as a reputable company, does it??!!

EDIT: This paragraph is interesting, though. Why would Cloanto need AInc.'s approval if Hyperion wants to transfer their AmigaOS 3.1 license to a 3rd party, if Cloanto actually owns it?? Hmmm.....it doesn't really add up.

"Hyperion Entertainment, recently declared bankrupt, has a license to modify and distribute AmigaOS 3.1, an exlusive license for the AmigaOS and AmigaOne trademarks (limited for use with AmigaOS 4 or higher) and a non-exclusive license for the BoingBall trademark (limited for use with AmigaOS 4 or higher). Hyperion's license can only be transferred to a third party with Amiga Inc.'s consent."

[michaelz]

Originally Posted by DrBong

@michaelz
I stand corrected, but why not put it on their website?? Why do people have to try and hunt down this info. on other websites. It doesn't really bode well for Cloanto to be taken seriously as a reputable company, does it??!!

I agree, Cloanto could be better at communication with the community.

If you do happen to find anything else on the matter, I really appreciate it. I'm still trying to figure out everything noteworthy about the current state.

[DrBong]

Originally Posted by michaelz

I agree, Cloanto could be better at communication with the community.

If you do happen to find anything else on the matter, I really appreciate it. I'm still trying to figure out everything noteworthy about the current state.

TBH, if AInc. did sell the C= IP to Cloanto.....I have to wonder if it was theirs to sell. I'd love to see the original paperwork for transfer of ownership from Gateway, such was the dishonesty of McEwen and his crooked cronies at AInc.

Anyway, seen all this Amiga company melodrama many times before. Usually lotsa smoke 'n' mirrors and very little ends up being achieved for any party involved (i.e. neither the copyright holders/licensees nor the Ami community).

If we stopped starting these sort of threads on forums in the Ami community, then the likes of Cloanto etc. perhaps wouldn't feel so relevant and might go quietly into the night the same way as AInc......except do it a damn sight quicker. That's my work break done with, must get back to the grind!