English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Retrogaming General Discussion

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 22 May 2019, 10:39   #81
LongLifeA1200
Registered User

LongLifeA1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Amiga Kingdom
Posts: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by 005AGIMA View Post
I've always said the Lotus games pointed out what Outrun on Amiga could/should have been like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 005AGIMA View Post
The point would be to make a GOOD version of outrun (not arcade perfect) that runs on what most gamers had, which was an A500 with 512k of ram, or perhaps 1mb, and games for MOST were loaded from floppy.

Unless I grew up in some weird alternative poverty stricken universe, and everyone else here had a machine modded to the nines at the age of 15?
Quote:
Originally Posted by vulture View Post
Good talk....
I'd like to know what's so hard to comprehend.

You're not modding your A500. You're buying *theoretically* a cartridge of similar value to AGES/Nintendon't.

You can't get what you're asking for without this medium.

Just because floppy disks were cheaper, doesn't mean cartridges was never an option for the A500.

I don't know what else to say, except; objections to the use of a ROM cartridge on the A500 is...
LongLifeA1200 is offline  
Old 22 May 2019, 10:43   #82
britelite
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Espoo / Finland
Posts: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongLifeA1200 View Post
Secondly, using the MAXIMUM amount (10Mb, as you say) of ROM space -today- wouldn't cost that much as it did back then - so why NOT encourage its use for new projects?
Maybe because it makes zero sense in 2019, why waste money on producing cartridges when there are RAM expansions available which pretty much offer the same exact possibilities, but without breaking compatibility with other models. If you could expand Chip RAM to 8MB with cartridges (with the Custom chipset being able to access it), then you'd have a point.

And who actually cares about something being "cheating"? If you want to make a game running on cartridges, then please be my guest, no one's stopping you. But currently you're arguing for something that pretty much no-one is interested in pursuing, and will therefore never amount to anything anyway...

It's sad to see the weird inferiority complex that has struck the Amiga crowd in the past few years, with a lot of people begging for arcade/dos/whatever conversions just because "OMG OMG OMG WE MUST SHOW AMIGA IS BEST OMG OMG OMG".
britelite is offline  
Old 22 May 2019, 10:58   #83
gimbal
cheeky scoundrel
gimbal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands
Age: 38
Posts: 3,403
No dude. It's just a bunch of people in a forum keeping the memory alive. No need to start ridiculing. There have been zillions of these threads already, it's good fun. Until people start to sling mud, that is.
gimbal is offline  
Old 22 May 2019, 11:13   #84
LongLifeA1200
Registered User

LongLifeA1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Amiga Kingdom
Posts: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by britelite View Post
Maybe because it makes zero sense in 2019, why waste money on producing cartridges when there are RAM expansions available which pretty much offer the same exact possibilities, but without breaking compatibility with other models. If you could expand Chip RAM to 8MB with cartridges (with the Custom chipset being able to access it), then you'd have a point.
I was waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by britelite View Post
And who actually cares about something being "cheating"?
"They" do.

One side says to me "That's cheating! Unreasonable for its time!" so I offer a way that wouldn't be "cheating" and reasonable for its time.

Then the other side says to me "Well if you're going to do that, you might as well add an accelerator card!" but that would defeat the purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by britelite View Post
But currently you're arguing for something that pretty much no-one is interested in pursuing, and will therefore never amount to anything anyway...
Whether it be for emulation (to see the result of what could have been) or real hardware for its own sake, I bet there is interest in it somewhere.

At this point, I'm just trying to convince the purists not to be offended by the notion of using a ROM cartridge.
LongLifeA1200 is offline  
Old 22 May 2019, 11:18   #85
britelite
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Espoo / Finland
Posts: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongLifeA1200 View Post
Whether it be for emulation (to see the result of what could have been) or real hardware for its own sake, I bet there is interest in it somewhere.
Yeah, people might be interested in seeing it happen, but at least I haven't really seen anyone interested in actually doing something about it...

Quote:
At this point, I'm just trying to convince the purists not to be offended by the notion of using a ROM cartridge.
I don't think anyone is actually offended by the idea, more likely just finding it a pointless exercise.
britelite is offline  
Old 22 May 2019, 11:28   #86
LongLifeA1200
Registered User

LongLifeA1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Amiga Kingdom
Posts: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by britelite View Post
...incompatible with anything else...
Quote:
Originally Posted by britelite View Post
...breaking compatibility...
Quote:
Originally Posted by britelite View Post
...please be my guest, no one's stopping you...
Quote:
Originally Posted by britelite View Post
...no-one is interested in pursuing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by britelite View Post
...and will therefore never amount to anything anyway...
Quote:
Originally Posted by britelite View Post
..."OMG OMG OMG WE MUST SHOW AMIGA IS BEST OMG OMG OMG"...
Quote:
Originally Posted by britelite View Post
...actually doing something about it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by britelite View Post
...a pointless exercise...
We know.
We know.
We know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by britelite View Post
But hey, looking forward to your cartridge version of the game, will be interesting to see how it performs
LongLifeA1200 is offline  
Old 22 May 2019, 11:37   #87
britelite
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Espoo / Finland
Posts: 601
So does this mean you're going to start working on it?
britelite is offline  
Old 22 May 2019, 11:49   #88
vulture
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Athens , Greece
Posts: 1,030
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongLifeA1200 View Post
I'd like to know what's so hard to comprehend.

You're not modding your A500. You're buying *theoretically* a cartridge of similar value to AGES/Nintendon't.

You can't get what you're asking for without this medium.

Just because floppy disks were cheaper, doesn't mean cartridges was never an option for the A500.

I don't know what else to say, except; objections to the use of a ROM cartridge on the A500 is...

There's nothing for me to comprehend here. I feel like it's cheating, you don't. I don't mind that you don't, but you seem to mind my opinion. Resorting to calling my post as "stupid" and "trolling" isn't very nice of you and it certainly doesn't help get the discussion going, so, I'm done arguing about it. Fin.
vulture is offline  
Old 22 May 2019, 11:54   #89
d4rk3lf
Registered User

d4rk3lf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Novi Sad, Serbia
Posts: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by britelite View Post
It's sad to see the weird inferiority complex that has struck the Amiga crowd in the past few years, with a lot of people begging for arcade/dos/whatever conversions just because "OMG OMG OMG WE MUST SHOW AMIGA IS BEST OMG OMG OMG".
I'd say, it is the way on how human mind works, not specifically Amiga related.
Everyone is full enthusiastic (and full of ideas) on the subject that they don't know very well.
After they start learning, and try bringing some of the ideas, and fighting with many obstacles, enthusiasm is replaced with much realistic view, because we see now, that behind every idea, there is a lots of manual (boring) work included.

Same is the, for example, drawing for me. Until I haven't started practicing drawing, I had like million idea, and now, with a little practice, I know that I need to plan carefully, even the simplest idea, before I start draw it, and make a steps to ensure that drawing will be based on strong fonds (composition, silhouette..).

This apply to pretty much everything else in life.
(I know you know these things... just saying)

Sorry for the Off topic.
d4rk3lf is offline  
Old 22 May 2019, 12:15   #90
DamienD
Global Moderator

DamienD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: London / Sydney
Age: 42
Posts: 15,102
Guys, can we please stop all this silly bickering?
DamienD is offline  
Old 22 May 2019, 12:43   #91
LongLifeA1200
Registered User

LongLifeA1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Amiga Kingdom
Posts: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by vulture View Post
There's nothing for me to comprehend here. I feel like it's cheating, you don't. I don't mind that you don't, but you seem to mind my opinion. Resorting to calling my post as "stupid" and "trolling" isn't very nice of you and it certainly doesn't help get the discussion going, so, I'm done arguing about it. Fin.
The concept was already discussed earlier (in a bit of detail) with others before you interjected. You decided to start it up all the way from the beginning again. I gave another try at explaining.

If you could explain why it is cheating, I would listen. But you can't because there is no logic to it.

Do you know what your were doing is called? It's called "stirring the pot".

Anyway, another page wasted.
LongLifeA1200 is offline  
Old 22 May 2019, 12:43   #92
DamienD
Global Moderator

DamienD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: London / Sydney
Age: 42
Posts: 15,102
Enough please LongLifeA1200; let it go man.
DamienD is offline  
Old 22 May 2019, 15:50   #93
vulture
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Athens , Greece
Posts: 1,030
As I said, nothing more to discuss with you LLA1200.

Back to the point, having watched Outrun Europa again, there are a few instances where there's more going on at the sides of the road than any Lotus II stage and sports a parallax layer too. Gfx aren't as pretty, but I think that has more to do with the artist than the engine itself. As already noted, things like different types of vehicles and Y ways are already implemented plus it seems to be a bit faster too (NTSC compatible as well). I see no reason why that couldn't be a better basis for an A500 Outrun port in almost every aspect.

Then of course, there's that bottom panel which is looking rather ugly. Couldn't that be placed at the top of the screen with copper sky as the background to look like it's part of the game area? I mean, the horizon has no reason to be drawn that high in the sky anyway so that wouldn't incur a performance hit, would it?
vulture is offline  
Old 23 May 2019, 02:33   #94
005AGIMA
Re-loading. Please wait.

005AGIMA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Perth, Australia & England
Posts: 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by vulture View Post
As I said, nothing more to discuss with you LLA1200.

Back to the point, having watched Outrun Europa again, there are a few instances where there's more going on at the sides of the road than any Lotus II stage and sports a parallax layer too. Gfx aren't as pretty, but I think that has more to do with the artist than the engine itself. As already noted, things like different types of vehicles and Y ways are already implemented plus it seems to be a bit faster too (NTSC compatible as well). I see no reason why that couldn't be a better basis for an A500 Outrun port in almost every aspect.

Then of course, there's that bottom panel which is looking rather ugly. Couldn't that be placed at the top of the screen with copper sky as the background to look like it's part of the game area? I mean, the horizon has no reason to be drawn that high in the sky anyway so that wouldn't incur a performance hit, would it?
Never played Europa but if it has most of the elements, you may be right as it being a better starting point.

Will have to give it a play.

But I also now wonder if simply "improving" the original Outrun for Amiga is a possibility. Less on screen sprites to increase framerate. Then better artwork and sound FX.

From memory, the actual levels in terms of road layout was fairly faithful.

So maybe it just needs some tidying up?

Last edited by 005AGIMA; 23 May 2019 at 03:06.
005AGIMA is offline  
Old 23 May 2019, 04:45   #95
LongLifeA1200
Registered User

LongLifeA1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Amiga Kingdom
Posts: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by britelite View Post
So does this mean you're going to start working on it?
Not anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vulture View Post
As I said, nothing more to discuss with you LLA1200.
That's fine. You can do it on your own now, genius.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DamienD View Post
Enough please LongLifeA1200; let it go man.
The idea has merit. Maybe the 'stirrers' should have let it go, hmm.
LongLifeA1200 is offline  
Old 23 May 2019, 07:41   #96
vulture
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Athens , Greece
Posts: 1,030
Quote:
Originally Posted by 005AGIMA View Post
Never played Europa but if it has most of the elements, you may be right as it being a better starting point.

Will have to give it a play.

But I also now wonder if simply "improving" the original Outrun for Amiga is a possibility. Less on screen sprites to increase framerate. Then better artwork and sound FX.

From memory, the actual levels in terms of road layout was fairly faithful.

So maybe it just needs some tidying up?



Maybe you're right. I think that the code is slow though and the frame rate wouldn't improve enough even if the number of bobs was to be decreased.
vulture is offline  
Old 23 May 2019, 07:44   #97
britelite
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Espoo / Finland
Posts: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by vulture View Post
Maybe you're right. I think that the code is slow though and the frame rate wouldn't improve enough even if the number of bobs was to be decreased.
Yeah, there's probably quite a bit in the code that could be improved, which in general would be a better route anyway
britelite is offline  
Old 23 May 2019, 08:26   #98
vulture
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Athens , Greece
Posts: 1,030
Quote:
Originally Posted by britelite View Post
Yeah, there's probably quite a bit in the code that could be improved, which in general would be a better route anyway

So, you're doing it?
vulture is offline  
Old 23 May 2019, 09:13   #99
britelite
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Espoo / Finland
Posts: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by vulture View Post
So, you're doing it?
Maybe I should first finish the game I'm working on

And no, I wouldn't go messing around with something like Outrun, due to all the risks with legal troubles. So, in this case I'd rather make my own similar game. Also, currently I'd be more intrigued in getting some kind of a Mario Kart clone running on an A500
britelite is offline  
Old 23 May 2019, 09:29   #100
005AGIMA
Re-loading. Please wait.

005AGIMA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Perth, Australia & England
Posts: 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by britelite View Post
Maybe I should first finish the game I'm working on

And no, I wouldn't go messing around with something like Outrun, due to all the risks with legal troubles. So, in this case I'd rather make my own similar game. Also, currently I'd be more intrigued in getting some kind of a Mario Kart clone running on an A500
Legal issues are the problem.

Instead of people going "oh wow you made something only about 200 retro gamers will play based on our IP....well done!", you'd have SEGA and Ferrari knocking on the door.

Note the port to Nintendo Switch no longer features the Testarossa

Gotta love licensing.

Also I thought there was a Mario Kart clone on amiga......the name escapes me. Google will help but that's cheating.


ok I cheated.

X-treme racing.
[ Show youtube player ]
005AGIMA is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Better Outrun port for Amiga tekopaa Retrogaming General Discussion 335 27 August 2018 04:38
CannonBall - Enhanced Outrun Engine Released lantus360 News 71 25 April 2018 08:50
would you like to have an Outrun like for Aga? sandruzzo Retrogaming General Discussion 50 30 January 2013 12:03
good retro racer in Lotus/Outrun style s2325 Retrogaming General Discussion 4 27 May 2007 20:57
Outrun arcade challenge.......... Bloodwych Retrogaming General Discussion 0 12 September 2003 15:42

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.09167 seconds with 14 queries