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Old 07 October 2018, 19:19   #1
Mstone
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Want to run OS 4.x on amiga 1200

Hello everyone! I have just jumped into the Amiga 1200 world and have bout one. It is on the way. I am trying to figure out how to set it up as I would like it, and want to know if its possible. I am new to this so I do not know much yet.
I would like to run the regular 3.x OS and also 4.x classic. Is it possible to have both installed on an internal flash card and pick between them at bootup? And also, what hardware is needed exactly to run OS 4 on there. I know I need a blizzard card but i am not sure which ones will work and which won't. I am looking at one that I think would work, but I would like a second opinion. I am looking at a Phase5 Blizzard 1230IV with 030@50 Mhz, and 64 mb of ram installed. I am pretty sure I have to upgrade to 128mb for os4.x to work. Do you know if I can have more than that? Any help or possibly cheaper options would be great, but this one is around 250€ so I think that is not too bad, but not sure. Let me know what you all think. Any help is greatly appriciated! Thank you!
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Old 07 October 2018, 19:32   #2
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Hi Mstone, the A1200 is a great machine to have, and a Blizzard 1230IV will make it a fantastic machine for almost any purpose. However, you are, I'm afraid, going to be stuck with OS 3 here.

OS 4 requires a PowerPC processor, so you'd be after a BlizzardPPC, and these tend to sell for nearer €1000 - and even then, OS 4 isn't going to be great on one of those.
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Old 07 October 2018, 20:43   #3
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Originally Posted by indigolemon View Post
Hi Mstone, the A1200 is a great machine to have, and a Blizzard 1230IV will make it a fantastic machine for almost any purpose. However, you are, I'm afraid, going to be stuck with OS 3 here.

OS 4 requires a PowerPC processor, so you'd be after a BlizzardPPC, and these tend to sell for nearer €1000 - and even then, OS 4 isn't going to be great on one of those.
Oh dang! Are there any other options to get a power PC card for it to work that are cheaper? I saw one other option on the amiga os page, the cyberstorm, but couldn't even find any on ebay.
And if I am looking at os 3 only, then would it make more sense to buy a cheaper card that is still in production so that it isn't expensive due to rarity? Or maybe a card with slightly lower specs. Would i notice a difference with that?
And I want to use this computer for most tasks that i would do with a modern PC. Mainly, are there any more modern web browsers that would work for os 3? Ones that could maybe work with newer style web pages? I also would want to play music which I know I could do, and other simple computer tasks, and play a few games, but I dont think anything too crazy, except for when I just want to see what the machine can do. A 3D capability would be cool though. Thanks!
And I am glad it will be a great machine either way!
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Old 07 October 2018, 21:10   #4
utri007
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Do you realize that you are talking computer wich was released 1992?

Even with PPC CPU it can barely be used with Netsurfing.

If you want amiga wich can use relatively (for amiga land) new software you should get at least accelerator with 68040 CPU. 26mhz 68040 is 2x faster than 50mhz 68030. Speed of 68040 is is about 25mhz 486.

If you really want run Amiga OS4 you could buy required hardware. Some times you can found them in second hand in amibay. I have Amiga OS capable Amiga and I'm happy with it, but remember it is HOBBY OS, not a mainstream OS like Android, Windows, Linux, etc.

http://www.amigaos.net/content/72/supported-hardware
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Old 07 October 2018, 21:37   #5
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Do you realize that you are talking computer wich was released 1992?

Even with PPC CPU it can barely be used with Netsurfing.

If you want amiga wich can use relatively (for amiga land) new software you should get at least accelerator with 68040 CPU. 26mhz 68040 is 2x faster than 50mhz 68030. Speed of 68040 is is about 25mhz 486.

If you really want run Amiga OS4 you could buy required hardware. Some times you can found them in second hand in amibay. I have Amiga OS capable Amiga and I'm happy with it, but remember it is HOBBY OS, not a mainstream OS like Android, Windows, Linux, etc.

http://www.amigaos.net/content/72/supported-hardware
I mean I am doing this for fun, not for serious applications. But I don't use modern computers for anything serious anyway, except for my online work which is done through a web browser. I do not expect to be able to do that though.
I dont mind if OS4 was a little slow or something with the A1200 and PPC.

And thanks for the info on the CPU speeds. I did not know this. I will look for higher then 030 cpus and see what I find.
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Old 09 October 2018, 00:12   #6
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It seems like all that can easily be found and had are 030 accelerators. I am quite interested in the blizzard 030 @50, however I won't be buying any accelerators until I get the Amiga in my hands. It did not have a very detailed listing. All I knew when I bought it is that it was in great shape, is PAL, and works with a working 40mb hard disk, and that it includes an Australian PSU. I found out afterwards by looking at the pics of the package he sent me that it has an Amiga tank mouse, just like I wanted, instead of the rounded one! So it may have an accelerator in it already. They did not show it with the trapdoor off. Maybe I'll be lucky, and it will come with a PPC accelerator! Or at least another accelerator.
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Old 09 October 2018, 08:28   #7
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You never know what you can find
However one of the first thing you should do on an A1200 is to replace the capacitors as these may leak after so many years.

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They did not show it with the trapdoor off. Maybe I'll be lucky, and it will come with a PPC accelerator! Or at least another accelerator.
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Old 09 October 2018, 08:53   #8
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there are BPPC on ebay just its gonna cost you $1k+
now if you can downgrade to OS 3.9 and buy a elbox mediator and a PPC card cheap like the Bigfoot Killer network PCI card then you can run some WarpOS stuff that is under 64MB ram then ofc since now you would have PCI you can use voodoo etc
videos on youtube of a a1200 with that setup running quake with no sound though sometimes sound works
but emulators etc run
[ Show youtube player ]
with sound working some odd reason
[ Show youtube player ]

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=76633&page=137

Last edited by nexus; 09 October 2018 at 09:00.
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Old 09 October 2018, 16:26   #9
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please note to run OS4.x besides a PPC accel on the A1200 you will need a gfx card
otherwise will be slow as turtle and unusable
check this

[ Show youtube player ]

OS4.0 is a scam a waste of money , there are not good programs or games which deserve to purchase hardware to install such obsolete crap
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Old 09 October 2018, 17:25   #10
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please note to run OS4.x besides a PPC accel on the A1200 you will need a gfx card
otherwise will be slow as turtle and unusable
Yep, true. Even with a graphics card, you're at the very lowest limit of usability with the OS. Blizzard PPC accelerators max out at 256MB RAM, which isn't enough to run any big applications like web browsers. Coupled with the rarity and fragility of such accelerators driving their prices even higher than they were new two decades ago, you'd be far better off running the same version (OS4.1FE) on WinUAE, or looking for a second-hand AmigaOne, SAM4x0 or similar and saving yourself $1000 to spend on lots of other retro goodies.

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OS4.0 is a scam a waste of money , there are not good programs or games which deserve to purchase hardware to install such obsolete crap
A funny thing to say on a forum that's mostly dedicated to even older, more obsolete versions of the OS. Besides, OS4.0 hasn't been available to buy for many years 4.1FE is the current version, released in 2014 and updated in late 2016.
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Old 09 October 2018, 18:43   #11
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I am hopeful to find something nice in the trapdoor! I will have to ask the seller if he knows it has been recapped. I doubt he would. I don't plan on removing any capacitors unless they are already leaking. This machine was expensive and I am not great at soldering.
Okay so I will not be using OS 4.x on it unless it already cones with a ppc card.
I would LOVE to be able to watch youtube videos on the machine, but I dont want to take it out of the case and put it in a tower. A big part of the appeal of this machine is the case design, and doing some modern things with it while it is a computer that looks like it does.
I will do os 3.9. Does the machine allow you to choose between multiple operating systems that are installed on a hard drive at bootup? I don't know what it has on it currently, but I would likely want to copy that to a new hard drive on one partition and install 3.9 on a new partition, if possible anyway.
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Old 09 October 2018, 21:38   #12
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Even with the highest PPC accelerator available for the A1200, you're not going to watch Youtube videos on it I'm afraid, or at least, not satisfactorily. A ~200MHz PPC with slow RAM is simply not up to the task of viewing modern video.

Also, you'd be *extremely* lucky (I'm talking winning the Lotto here) to buy a machine in which the user has forgotten they had a PPC card installed! But stranger things have happened...

I would suggest sending the board to someone who can recap it properly - Acill is in the US.

OS 3.9 is a good choice, and does come with a video player and a couple of example video files (a Star Wars - Episode I trailer IIRC) so you can try that and see how it fares with video on the 68K. Those video files were just about watchable on an 060 and graphics card for me, but are a long way off the resolution and bitrate of anything Youtube has to offer these days.

There are a couple of ways to multi boot. The most straightforward is to simply use the early startup settings (hold down both mouse buttons at startup) and select the partition to boot from. This gets trickier when reboots are required like with OS3.9, but it's doable. Slightly more involved is to use some scripting to detect the current Kickstart and boot from the appropriate partition automatically. More elaborate scripting can offer a menu, or a system like holding down a mouse button to boot 3.1.
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Old 09 October 2018, 23:38   #13
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Even with the highest PPC accelerator available for the A1200, you're not going to watch Youtube videos on it I'm afraid, or at least, not satisfactorily. A ~200MHz PPC with slow RAM is simply not up to the task of viewing modern video.

Also, you'd be *extremely* lucky (I'm talking winning the Lotto here) to buy a machine in which the user has forgotten they had a PPC card installed! But stranger things have happened...

I would suggest sending the board to someone who can recap it properly - Acill is in the US.

OS 3.9 is a good choice, and does come with a video player and a couple of example video files (a Star Wars - Episode I trailer IIRC) so you can try that and see how it fares with video on the 68K. Those video files were just about watchable on an 060 and graphics card for me, but are a long way off the resolution and bitrate of anything Youtube has to offer these days.

There are a couple of ways to multi boot. The most straightforward is to simply use the early startup settings (hold down both mouse buttons at startup) and select the partition to boot from. This gets trickier when reboots are required like with OS3.9, but it's doable. Slightly more involved is to use some scripting to detect the current Kickstart and boot from the appropriate partition automatically. More elaborate scripting can offer a menu, or a system like holding down a mouse button to boot 3.1.
Hah I know, but one can dream! And ah I mean i dont see why someone hasn't made a web browser or youtube client that can just compress the videos and reduce the quality, or one could manually reduce the quality to 144p. It would just be cool hah. I suppose it is pretty cool to be able to watch videos on there. I could download the videos from youtube I wanted to watch and then play them on there at a reduced quality with the video player you speak of. That honestly could be good enough. Especially if I was able to download them through the a1200, using the website Keepvid. It probably requires flash or java though so I would think its not likely.
And okay that sounds easy enough. I want to choose it manually every time from a menu or something. Why would it get tricky with a reboot?
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Old 10 October 2018, 09:55   #14
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Just manage your expectations when it comes to video A 68030 doesn't even have the horsepower to decode MP3 audio in real time, let alone video.

As for the reboot, there are certain elements of the ROM which, when an update is applied, require a reboot of the machine. OS 3.9 does this to activate the updated ROM, so the machine first boots from 3.1, then quickly reboots and starts again from 3.9. The problem arises if 3.9 isn't your highest boot priority - without some scripting to compensate, you will need to choose the 3.9 partition on each of those boots for it to work, so you need to catch the second boot, go into the early startup options again, and choose the 3.9 partition again. Without doing that, you'll end up in a 3.1 (or whatever) workbench on the 3.9 ROM, which might not work as expected.

If you only have one partition that needs that special boot process, making this the default boot partition reduces the problem. The only caveat then is that you need to cold boot to go into 3.1 again.
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Old 10 October 2018, 23:49   #15
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Just manage your expectations when it comes to video A 68030 doesn't even have the horsepower to decode MP3 audio in real time, let alone video.

As for the reboot, there are certain elements of the ROM which, when an update is applied, require a reboot of the machine. OS 3.9 does this to activate the updated ROM, so the machine first boots from 3.1, then quickly reboots and starts again from 3.9. The problem arises if 3.9 isn't your highest boot priority - without some scripting to compensate, you will need to choose the 3.9 partition on each of those boots for it to work, so you need to catch the second boot, go into the early startup options again, and choose the 3.9 partition again. Without doing that, you'll end up in a 3.1 (or whatever) workbench on the 3.9 ROM, which might not work as expected.

If you only have one partition that needs that special boot process, making this the default boot partition reduces the problem. The only caveat then is that you need to cold boot to go into 3.1 again.
Oh wow okay I see. Dont the music players for a1200 play mp3s though? I will definitely be getting an accelerator if one isnt in there already. Probably an 030 @50 with 64-128 mb ram if possible.
And oh hmm. Would I only have to do that once when installing 3.9, or does it get updates every once in a while if connected to the internet? I would want to make 3.9 the default and have the older versions to play around with.
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Old 11 October 2018, 00:06   #16
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There are music players specifically for decoding MP3s, but I'm not certain about what bitrate. You certainly wouldn't be able to rely on a 68030 to handle it alone.

I also don't know what specific benefit you'd have running OS3.9 on an otherwise unexpanded (aside from 68030) A1200 - OS3.1 is a much better use of resources.

No OS3.X will do any sort of auto-update if connected to the internet, so no worries there.

In my opinion, an A1200 with 68030 is the perfect WHDLoad machine. I'd use it for that purpose and probably skip many of the other things you're thinking about here.
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Old 11 October 2018, 03:55   #17
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There are music players specifically for decoding MP3s, but I'm not certain about what bitrate. You certainly wouldn't be able to rely on a 68030 to handle it alone.

I also don't know what specific benefit you'd have running OS3.9 on an otherwise unexpanded (aside from 68030) A1200 - OS3.1 is a much better use of resources.

No OS3.X will do any sort of auto-update if connected to the internet, so no worries there.

In my opinion, an A1200 with 68030 is the perfect WHDLoad machine. I'd use it for that purpose and probably skip many of the other things you're thinking about here.
Okay I mean I am not expecting a good bitrate or audio quality. I kind of am into playing mp3s on there to see what they sound like on there for the interesting lo-fi effect. And I wish higher processor variant accelerators were as easily accessible as the 68030. I want to do as many things as a normal computer can do, even if it is at a far reduced quality or speed, because that is part of what makes it interesting to me. And I will definitely be using it for WHDload. If also like to play around with emulators for it, and pc emulators. Just for fun. Again, I dont care about the speed of the PC emulators as long as it moves at least 1 frame per second.
So far most of the 68030s I have seen do not have an fpu with then. I am holding out for one that does.
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Old 11 October 2018, 09:40   #18
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If you want mp3s then an option is to install a music card like the prisma megamix. This enables MP3 playback with almost zero CPU overhead, so should work fine even with a stock 020.
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Old 11 October 2018, 10:20   #19
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There are music players specifically for decoding MP3s, but I'm not certain about what bitrate. You certainly wouldn't be able to rely on a 68030 to handle it alone.
Indeed, the music player that comes with OS 3.9 is one of them, as are AmigaAMP and SongPlayer amongst others. There are standard libraries for decoding MP3s so it's relatively easy to add MP3 decoding capability to a music player. The players themselves are not limited to any particular bitrate, it all comes down to the CPU or decoder used. A 68030 will be severely limited to low bitrates - the 68060 is the only one that has the power to decode reasonable quality MP3s in full in real-time.

As trixster says however, an alternative is to use a dedicated decoding device such as a Prisma Megamix or MAS player. Both can easily play full quality MP3s at a higher resolution than the Amiga's native output, with a minimal CPU load, and come with standard drivers that plug into most music players.

Quote:
I also don't know what specific benefit you'd have running OS3.9 on an otherwise unexpanded (aside from 68030) A1200 - OS3.1 is a much better use of resources.
3.9 runs perfectly fine on a 68030 and a few MB fast RAM, and offers quite a number of benefits over 3.1. Whether those benefits are of any use to you or not depends entirely on what you do with the machine, but going back to 3.1 feels awful and clunky to me after using 3.9 for so long - almost like going back to 1.3 from 3.1. And it sounds like the OP wants to try out more activities than just WHDLoad, in which case 3.9 is a much nicer environment to use.

A "better use of resources" is quite subjective. I'm more than happy to use a little extra RAM and have a longer boot time for all the extra features of OS 3.9 that I regularly use. But, if what you're doing doesn't involve much Workbench interaction, then a more minimal OS offers other benefits like faster booting and less resource usage if you're tight on RAM.


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So far most of the 68030s I have seen do not have an fpu with then. I am holding out for one that does.
An FPU is good for some tasks like 3D rendering and so on, but it won't make any significant difference when it comes to things like MP3 decoding capability, just in case that's what you had in mind.
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Old 11 October 2018, 11:10   #20
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You're never going to realistically run OS4.x on an A1200 because (as has already been said) you'd need a Blizzard PPC and either a BVision or a Mediator + GFX card... and then you'd want an ethernet card too you're looking at almost €2000.

Why would you want to run OS4? Just because the number is higher?

The best solutions for productivity on A1200 is a Mediator + PPC PCI card or wait for the illusive Vampire v4 for A1200.

The cheapest and arguably the best solution for MP3 on A1200 is a MASPlayer hardware MP3 decoder which plugs into the parallel port.

Don't bother with an FPU. Almost nothing uses it. It just uses electricity and heats up your case.
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