English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Support > support.Hardware

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 29 November 2010, 19:56   #1
nobodyii
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 18
CyberstormPPC SCSI issue with CD-Rom Drive

Hello members,

i have problems connecting a 50pin SCSI CD-ROM to the UW-SCSI of my CyberstormPPC. Does anyone have such a connection in working order? I have tried several configurations with no sucess.

I have connected the CD-ROM with a 68pin to 50pin adapter with active termination of the upper 8 bits. There is no cable between the adapter and the CD-ROM - the adapter is connected directly in the CD-ROM. After that, there is an active terminator for UW-SCSI. This is the chain:

active termination ---> Cyberstorm ---> UW-SCSI HDD (ID0) ---> Empty ---> Empty ---> Adapter (active termination of the upper 8 bits) with CD-ROM ---> active termination (UW 68pin)

The CD-ROM has only passive termination, I think. It is an HP CD-Writer 9200i. The CD-Writer is not terminated.

I hope someone can help me with a configuration in working order.

Thank you!
nobodyii is offline  
Old 29 November 2010, 22:38   #2
alexh
Thalion Webshrine
alexh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Oxford
Posts: 12,222
This is not an answer to your question but I am curious. Why would you do this?

I was under the impression that the CSPPC SCSI chain will run all devices at the capability of the narrowest drive on the bus i.e. the CD-ROM

I thought that if you had an ultrawide SCSI hard drive it could be restricted to approx 1/4 it's potential bandwidth by connecting a hardly ever used narrow SCSI CD-ROM?
alexh is offline  
Old 29 November 2010, 23:06   #3
nobodyii
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 18
Thank you for your message.

Yes - it may be that the whole SCSI bus slows down to Fast-SCSI speed. I want to do a speed measurement to compare the speed of the UW-HDD with and without a Fast-SCSI device connected.
nobodyii is offline  
Old 29 November 2010, 23:49   #4
alexh
Thalion Webshrine
alexh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Oxford
Posts: 12,222
Good luck, post back your results if you get it to work.
alexh is offline  
Old 30 November 2010, 00:58   #5
prowler
Global Moderator

prowler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Sidcup, England
Posts: 10,300
Hi nobodyii,

Can you disable the active termination of the upper 8 bits on the adapter? I think it might help if you could.
prowler is offline  
Old 30 November 2010, 05:40   #6
adolescent
Powered by Motorola

 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Age: 48
Posts: 1,064
One thing to check is to make sure the needed SCSI IDs are not disabled in the boot menu.

Setup should work as is. I have a very similar setup on my A4000D but ended up swapping for a low depth ATAPI CD-ROM for additional space and no boot delay. From memory, there was no perceptible speed decrease having a fast SCSI device on the chain (same ~30MB/s as I do currently).
adolescent is offline  
Old 30 November 2010, 07:05   #7
DarrenHD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: London / Canada
Posts: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by adolescent View Post
One thing to check is to make sure the needed SCSI IDs are not disabled in the boot menu.

Setup should work as is. I have a very similar setup on my A4000D but ended up swapping for a low depth ATAPI CD-ROM for additional space and no boot delay. From memory, there was no perceptible speed decrease having a fast SCSI device on the chain (same ~30MB/s as I do currently).
I had a similar setup, UW SCSI drive, and 50-pin scsi burner on the same chain, using a 50 to 68-pin adapter connected to the scsi burner...

Never really got it to work reliably, so I just ended up putting an IDE cdrom in the system and it's fine. Was too much hassle trying to get the 50-pin scsi burner to work... plus as mentioned it cuts the ide timeout delay.
DarrenHD is offline  
Old 30 November 2010, 21:32   #8
nobodyii
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 18
Many thanks to all of you for the answers.

I have no IDE timeout because I have installed an IDE terminator from Amigakit. This terminator is working fine with OS3.x

The correct chain to get the CD-Rom working is as follows:

active termination (68pin) ---> Cyberstorm ---> UW-HDD ---> adapter 68pin to 50pin WITHOUT termination connected directly into the CD-Rom ---> active termination (68pin)

In the meantime I managed to get the CD-Rom working with the internal Phase5 CDrive filesystem under OS3.x For now I am trying to get the CD-Rom working with AmiCDFS but without success so far.

The next problem is the installation of OS4.0 Classic. The floppy disc boots up - OS4 kickstart is working - but I can boot from the CD-Rom only after a delay of several minutes and a soft reset. Maybe there are some faulty adjustments in the "Bios" of the Cyberstorm... It seems like the Cyberstorm is searching for other SCSI devices. May be the OS4 kickstart is in trouble with the "IDE terminator" connected to the internal IDE slot....

I would be very thankful for your ideas in how to solve these problems.

Thanks to all!
nobodyii is offline  
Old 01 December 2010, 01:04   #9
adolescent
Powered by Motorola

 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Age: 48
Posts: 1,064
Sorry, I only have a CSMK3 so no OS4 experience. But, you can decrease the SCSI seek time by disabling unused SCSI IDs and setting the LUN count to 1 on devices you are using.
adolescent is offline  
Old 01 December 2010, 03:54   #10
DarrenHD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: London / Canada
Posts: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodyii View Post
Many thanks to all of you for the answers.

I have no IDE timeout because I have installed an IDE terminator from Amigakit. This terminator is working fine with OS3.x

The correct chain to get the CD-Rom working is as follows:

active termination (68pin) ---> Cyberstorm ---> UW-HDD ---> adapter 68pin to 50pin WITHOUT termination connected directly into the CD-Rom ---> active termination (68pin)

In the meantime I managed to get the CD-Rom working with the internal Phase5 CDrive filesystem under OS3.x For now I am trying to get the CD-Rom working with AmiCDFS but without success so far.

The next problem is the installation of OS4.0 Classic. The floppy disc boots up - OS4 kickstart is working - but I can boot from the CD-Rom only after a delay of several minutes and a soft reset. Maybe there are some faulty adjustments in the "Bios" of the Cyberstorm... It seems like the Cyberstorm is searching for other SCSI devices. May be the OS4 kickstart is in trouble with the "IDE terminator" connected to the internal IDE slot....

I would be very thankful for your ideas in how to solve these problems.

Thanks to all!
the OS 4.0 CD should boot from the scsi CDROM connected to your cyberstorm PPC. But you have to set the correct options in the Cyberstorm menu, like CDROM boot and mount.


Darren
DarrenHD is offline  
Old 04 December 2010, 13:38   #11
nobodyii
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 18
First I have to thank you all for your ideas and answers.

I have solved the problem. There is a problem with the electrical contact between the Cyberstorm and the Mainboard.

If I put a slight pressure to the connector, the OS4.0 Classic installation starts. The installed OS3.9 runs without any problems.

I will try to bend the contacts carefully in the next days.
nobodyii is offline  
Old 04 December 2010, 22:12   #12
prowler
Global Moderator

prowler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Sidcup, England
Posts: 10,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodyii View Post
If I put a slight pressure to the connector, the OS4.0 Classic installation starts. The installed OS3.9 runs without any problems.

I will try to bend the contacts carefully in the next days.
"Well done!" for finding the problem.

However, unless you think it would be unnecessary or impracticable, I would advise you to try solving the problem by cleaning the contacts before resorting to bending them.
prowler is offline  
Old 08 December 2010, 19:15   #13
nobodyii
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 18
Here is a little update:

Today I have installed OS4.0 Classic on a IDE HDD connected to the A4000´s IDE connector. The systems hangs the same way as before.

The card works when I put a slight pressure to the PPC.

So I have found a guy from Poland who is able to fix this problem.

I let you know about the status of the repair and if it was successful or not.
nobodyii is offline  
Old 04 January 2011, 11:28   #14
nobodyii
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 18
The card is repaired now and fully working. It runs now at 68060 66MHz and 604e 363MHz.

Here are some pictures and a video:

http://picasaweb.google.com/stacho10...tiveForRepair#
[ Show youtube player ]
nobodyii is offline  
Old 04 January 2011, 18:33   #15
DarrenHD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: London / Canada
Posts: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodyii View Post
The card is repaired now and fully working. It runs now at 68060 66MHz and 604e 363MHz.

Here are some pictures and a video:

http://picasaweb.google.com/stacho10...tiveForRepair#
[ Show youtube player ]
How about cyberstorm PPC SCSI under OS 4.0 ? Working OK?

My card is same as yours but 604e is at 366MHz and I have issue with SCSI locking up under OS 4.0, but it's OK under OS 3.9. I may need to downclock the PPC to get reliable SCSI operation under OS 4.0.

I sent Stan my oldest CS PPC to upgrade and I guess there were several silent revisions of the board...I should have sent him one of my newer ones as apparently they overclock better.
DarrenHD is offline  
Old 04 January 2011, 23:37   #16
stachu100
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Piaseczno/Poland
Posts: 333
@DarrenHD,

I've made two videos confirming that SCSI is working properly on mine CSPPC which is basically the same configuration as yours (060@66,667MHz/PPC@366MHz, CSPPC rev1):
[ Show youtube player ]
[ Show youtube player ]
As you can see, there is no problem to access SCSI HDD's and do other things as well.

So questions:
1) What is exactly your config?
2) What kind of SCSI HDD's are you using (photos would be more than welcome)?
3) Is this problems appears just after AOS4.0 launch or it is random (after 5/10/20/30/several minutes)?
4) Could it be connected with an application you are launching?

I hope that you are not using SCSI<->IDE interface - they are not reliable.
stachu100 is offline  
Old 05 January 2011, 14:55   #17
nobodyii
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrenHD View Post
How about cyberstorm PPC SCSI under OS 4.0 ? Working OK?

My card is same as yours but 604e is at 366MHz and I have issue with SCSI locking up under OS 4.0, but it's OK under OS 3.9. I may need to downclock the PPC to get reliable SCSI operation under OS 4.0.

I sent Stan my oldest CS PPC to upgrade and I guess there were several silent revisions of the board...I should have sent him one of my newer ones as apparently they overclock better.
I only have done a short test with my CSPPC. I have installed OS4.0 Classic on a UW-SCSI-HDD without any problems or lock ups.
nobodyii is offline  
Old 05 January 2011, 18:05   #18
DarrenHD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: London / Canada
Posts: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by stachu100 View Post
@DarrenHD,

I've made two videos confirming that SCSI is working properly on mine CSPPC which is basically the same configuration as yours (060@66,667MHz/PPC@366MHz, CSPPC rev1):
[ Show youtube player ]
[ Show youtube player ]
As you can see, there is no problem to access SCSI HDD's and do other things as well.

So questions:
1) What is exactly your config?

Amiga 4000D Rev. B, 3.1 ROMS, OS 4.x Classic (I'm beta tester), but same freeze happens on OS 4.0 as you have), the CS PPC @ 366, Cybervision PPC.

2) What kind of SCSI HDD's are you using (photos would be more than welcome)?

Seagate real SCSI drive with scsi cable terminated properly. I know it is because if I put in another CS PPC it's totally fine with OS 3.9 and OS4.0. No SCSI CDROM, just the single Seagate SCSI hard disk.

3) Is this problems appears just after AOS4.0 launch or it is random (after 5/10/20/30/several minutes)?

Usually happens after boot, but it's happened during installation. I've narrowed it down to scsi write operations. Reading from the SCSI appears to be fine.

4) Could it be connected with an application you are launching?

It's too random for that.

I hope that you are not using SCSI<->IDE interface - they are not reliable.
Hi Let me first say your work is 100% top-notch and the problems are I think the cs ppc and not your work I would recommend you again to anyone even myself

Ok,

1) What is exactly your config?

Amiga 4000D Rev. B, 3.1 ROMS, OS 4.x Classic (I'm beta tester), but same freeze happens on OS 4.0 as you have), the CS PPC @ 366, Cybervision PPC. I've verified the SCSI freeze issue on multiple A4000's as I have several here to test including a total of three Cyberstorm PPC's. The one you overclocked for me and two normal ones, not overclocked.

2) What kind of SCSI HDD's are you using (photos would be more than welcome)?

Seagate real SCSI drive with scsi cable terminated properly. I know it is because if I put in another CS PPC it's totally fine with OS 3.9 and OS4.0 and SCSI. No SCSI CDROM, just the single Seagate SCSI hard disk.

3) Is this problems appears just after AOS4.0 launch or it is random (after 5/10/20/30/several minutes)?

Usually happens after boot, after using the system for awhile, but it's happened during installation, too. I've narrowed it down to scsi write operations. Reading from the SCSI appears to be fine. Just browsing around workbench is normally fine, but if I launch a large application or do many copy operations it will freeze (OWB can freeze it pretty fast, for example).

4) Could it be connected with an application you are launching?

It's too random for that. The RAM I am using also is working 100% if I just use IDE and not SCSI at 60 or 70ns.

I'm a bit busy now with OS 4.1 Classic beta testing but once that finishes I will have more time to fix this SCSI issue. Either I send it back to you for testing or I try to put in the slower oscillator you already gave me

thanks again for all your help the 366Mhz does make a huge difference!


PS I can make a video of the freeze when I get some time and take some photos.
DarrenHD is offline  
Old 06 January 2011, 21:51   #19
stachu100
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Piaseczno/Poland
Posts: 333
Hi Darren,

I'm sure you are busy with AOS4.1 for Classic testing.
Ok, we will come back to your issues later. No problem to sent this CSPPC back to me for future tests.

Regards,
Stan
stachu100 is offline  
Old 19 September 2014, 03:17   #20
ancalimon
Supernormal

ancalimon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Istanbul / Turkey
Age: 38
Posts: 1,229
So does using a 50pin cdwriter really slow down the scsi chain on CStormPPC? Is it because the 50pin to 68pin adapter terminates 18 pins and it's unavalible for the rest of the devices? What if the 50pin device is at the end of the chain?

Does anyone know where one could find a cheap 68pin cdrom cdwriter (or dvdrom - writer)? Preferably new or nos. I don't think it's possible to find one here in Turkey.

Last edited by ancalimon; 19 September 2014 at 03:22.
ancalimon is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SCSI CD-ROM drive emulation mark_k support.WinUAE 29 16 February 2013 10:45
SCSI CD ROM Drive Washac support.Hardware 2 18 February 2010 19:19
Wanted - External SCSI CD ROM Drive fitzsteve MarketPlace 0 01 December 2009 11:50
cyberstormPPC users, SCSI issues superBuster support.Hardware 28 07 December 2006 20:36
[FA] CyberstormPPC 233MHz with 060/50MHz and UW-SCSI controller scan_x MarketPlace 2 01 January 2004 10:10

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:06.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.08966 seconds with 13 queries