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Old 19 February 2018, 13:28   #81
Trachu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steril707 View Post
@DamienD: I think this kind of discussion is rather beneficial, and even if personally I will stay with the way the game looks, this exchange of ideas might be interesting for other people who want to code something..

So, everything's fine...

Plus, I'd rather have some discussion in this thread than none...
OK, lets back to business = talking what can be done on Amiga with this type of games

Is my guess correct that you use 4 sprites for first wave of enemies and another 4 for the second?

You multiple them vertically but not horizontally??

I have now an idea how to multiply 4 HW sprites in single line.
4HW sprite makes single 32px wide 15colour object which we want to mirror lets say 128px to the right.

We would have such copper code:

Set sprite 0 position to X
Set sprite 1 position to X
Set sprite 2 position to X+16
Set sprite 3 position to X+16
Set sprite 4 position to X+128
Set sprite 5 position to X+128
Set sprite 6 position to X+128+16
Set sprite 7 position to X+128+16
Wait till next line position X (plus minus 16px space)

Every vertical blank you would change this X position in order to move the sprites to the left.

It is really important to understand that in 6 bitplanes we can point to execution copper command every 8pixels. The copper in order to position the sprites accordingly would have to change execution point following the sprite moving to the left.

Lets say we have as in your case four 32px height objects. That would mean we would have to update 4x32x9=1152 Words in copper list every Vblank.
Another disadvantage is that using the code above you can move the sprite every two pixels. If you want to move it every single pixel you would have to add another 8 copper instructions which would cause another burden on DMA.

hmm, I would not be sure would we be able with such dma burden to keep 50Hz. There is also another idea which comes to mind.

We can create enemies as 5 colour objects as well using Attach bit trick, but you would have to use the same 5 colours for All of them. hmm, i guess it would be better to use different 3 colours samples which can look more colourful and with some skilled graphician they can still look good.
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Old 19 February 2018, 14:38   #82
Steril707
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@Trachu: Yeah, you guessed right with the Sprite allocation.

From having a look on it, I guess what you describe is possible, but rather complicated and kind of unflexible.

I am not really in need of more Objects, though, since in addition to the Sprites I still have my merry old BOBs flying around, which only have the problem of being a bit less colourful than the Sprites.

Building such a powerful sprite multiplexer would be an interesting exercise, though...
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Old 20 February 2018, 23:36   #83
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These horizontal lines is a known good technique to fake more colors in pixel art. It's perfectly fine.

http://pixeljoint.com/pixelart/12082.htm
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Old 21 February 2018, 04:38   #84
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oh boy don't know how I missed this thread! my Amiga 1000 is looking so forward to trying this out
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Old 21 February 2018, 06:14   #85
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As far I know, this style is used to exploit the PAL delay line and mix colors between lines. Read here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanover_bars#
It was rarely used on Amiga because most of the users had a RGB monitor where this effect is not visible. I can suggest to try the game via color composite and see how it looks like.
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Old 21 February 2018, 08:04   #86
Steril707
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I have to admit, I didn't use this style for any kind of clever CRT based colour mixing tricks.

I just like the way it looks, especially with a couple more colours involved, and my pixeling workflow seems to gel with it, which it doesn't with normal crosshatch dithering..



Hopefully a couple of people like it as well, even if Trachu doesn't...


Quote:
Originally Posted by klx300r View Post
oh boy don't know how I missed this thread! my Amiga 1000 is looking so forward to trying this out
Thanks, man... The game needs some kind of extra memory though.. If you have 1mb of chip or 512k of extra fast ram you are safe...
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Old 21 February 2018, 09:35   #87
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Stunning!
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Old 21 February 2018, 10:21   #88
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For me it looks awesome, I like visuals.
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Old 21 February 2018, 10:27   #89
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Looks great to me, as long as it plays fast and has enough onscreen action they are the main things to a shooter.
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Old 21 February 2018, 11:37   #90
Steril707
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Looks great to me, as long as it plays fast and has enough onscreen action they are the main things to a shooter.
i concur...

Some new w.i.p. graphics I'd like to share...
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Old 21 February 2018, 19:58   #91
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I've got to say I think that looks excellent It certainly looks to have far more colours than it actually has. Looking forward to seeing this progress
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Old 21 February 2018, 20:47   #92
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Originally Posted by Steril707 View Post
i concur...

Some new w.i.p. graphics I'd like to share...
Love the look man, stick with it. Looking forward to playing this
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Old 21 February 2018, 21:37   #93
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Steril707, even if it has been said million times already by others, I add my voice to the compliment as I really do like the gfx of this game !!!

Based on some other stuff you have made (and threads red), I am waiting to see the game in action because I am sure the code/gameplay will have the same level of quality .

PS: Found the post #81 really interesting.
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Old 21 February 2018, 22:04   #94
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Even if not indented: It will have more colors on an PAL-TV indeed:
(ok, just some guess how it will probably look ...)

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Old 21 February 2018, 22:21   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steril707 View Post

..Thanks, man... The game needs some kind of extra memory though.. If you have 1mb of chip or 512k of extra fast ram you are safe...
pheww..I'm safe as My A1000 has only 512 chip but a whopping 4MB fast thanks to my two side cars
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Old 22 February 2018, 09:20   #96
Steril707
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Originally Posted by Gorf View Post
Even if not indented: It will have more colors on an PAL-TV indeed:
(ok, just some guess how it will probably look ...)


A few days ago I tested this on my 1987 Watson crt TV.



The "scanlines" are still viewable..

(Just saw, you are a fellow Amiga fan from Munich... Good to know )
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Old 22 February 2018, 11:36   #97
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Nice picture.
How did you convert the signal to PAL?
Or is it composite/rgb/scart?
You would need a RF-modulator to see the real effect - and the picture needs to be downsampled in the right way ...

(still - I came pretty close with my fake-version, didn't I? )

Quote:
(Just saw, you are a fellow Amiga fan from Munich... Good to know )
we are everywhere ....
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Old 22 February 2018, 11:38   #98
Steril707
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It's the composite output of my Amiga 600.

I agree, though, that the result would be even "better" with an rf out...
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Old 22 February 2018, 11:51   #99
Gorf
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It's the composite output of my Amiga 600.

I agree, though, that the result would be even "better" with an rf out...
Your A600 should have one, no?
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Old 22 February 2018, 12:11   #100
Steril707
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Your A600 should have one, no?
Yes, it has.
But unfortunately I got no rf cable around anymore to test this...
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