English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Support > support.Hardware

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 23 March 2014, 09:40   #41
delshay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: uk
Posts: 245
I have never tested FPM memory modules,but I get a feeling it will still be slower than EDO even if some accelerater(s) are ignoring their features. Please prove me wrong here.

I don't know why some accelerator(s) skip these features,but performance is still there. EDO memory has a theoretical 266MBps but we know we will never get near that.

Not sure if I still have my old benchmark figures on classic,but from what I can remember EDO was doing around 108MBs,but my EDO memory has improved since then.

Note you need very low setting to get anywhere near that figure (108MBs) but these setting can destroy the card if you do not know what you are doing. WARNING

It will be interesting what the newer classic cards can do with SDRAM.

EDIT posting

Last edited by delshay; 23 March 2014 at 17:37.
delshay is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 23 March 2014, 13:44   #42
hooverphonique
ex. demoscener "Bigmama"
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Fyn / Denmark
Posts: 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by delshay View Post
I have never tested FPM memory modules,but I get a feeling it will still be slower than EDO even thou both are ignoring their features. Please prove me wrong here.
I bet you have, because almost each and every 72 pin simm out there is FPM.. I'm also pretty confident that most amiga accelerators with onboard dram supports page mode, although I don't actually know that for a fact.. hell, even Ramsey supports page mode, but just the static column variant, unfortunately..
hooverphonique is offline  
Old 23 March 2014, 18:10   #43
delshay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: uk
Posts: 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooverphonique View Post
I bet you have, because almost each and every 72 pin simm out there is FPM.. I'm also pretty confident that most amiga accelerators with onboard dram supports page mode, although I don't actually know that for a fact.. hell, even Ramsey supports page mode, but just the static column variant, unfortunately..
I don't own any FPM module,their 'all' EDO memory.

It will also be interesting what other user(s) got out of FPM modules when overclocked ie were they able to clock 80MHz+ bus.
delshay is offline  
Old 23 March 2014, 21:08   #44
hooverphonique
ex. demoscener "Bigmama"
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Fyn / Denmark
Posts: 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by delshay View Post
I don't own any FPM module,their 'all' EDO memory.

It will also be interesting what other user(s) got out of FPM modules when overclocked ie were they able to clock 80MHz+ bus.
all EDO modules are FPM, EDO is just an extra option they support...

DRAM is asynchronous, it is not clocked.. if its latency is low enough and the dram controller supports running at the desired clock, then you will get better performance..
hooverphonique is offline  
Old 25 March 2014, 08:58   #45
delshay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: uk
Posts: 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooverphonique View Post
all EDO modules are FPM, EDO is just an extra option they support...

DRAM is asynchronous, it is not clocked.. if its latency is low enough and the dram controller supports running at the desired clock, then you will get better performance..
You are nit picking.

When i say I only have EDO,their all have EDO features so a stand corrected in my last post saying I don't own FPM.

PDF documentation i must read.

Access time & cycle time is where my EDO has a advantage,I just hope the future can change to bring the first 25ns EDO to Amiga.

Last edited by delshay; 25 March 2014 at 09:52.
delshay is offline  
Old 25 March 2014, 09:20   #46
mc6809e
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by delshay View Post
I have never tested FPM memory modules,but I get a feeling it will still be slower than EDO even if some accelerater(s) are ignoring their features. Please prove me wrong here.
The memory access cycles in these sorts of DRAMS are all controlled by the hosting accelerator board. If the board isn't engineered or setup to handle EDO cycles, the board will talk to the EDO DRAM as if it were simply FPM DRAM and the speed will be the same.
mc6809e is offline  
Old 27 March 2014, 02:22   #47
delshay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: uk
Posts: 245
I have posted this link in the past so here it is for the final time. This is why I estimated my EDO memory module is capable of operating just under 120MHz bus speed with fast setting,but I am sure it can go faster if faster timing was available.

Click on the second smaller image just below the main image to see memory timing. If I had enter this competition this would put me third in the rankings,but I think I can take second.

NOTE: the top team has a CAS Latency 3

http://hwbot.org/competition/team_cu...e/623_edo_dram

Last edited by delshay; 27 March 2014 at 03:45.
delshay is offline  
Old 27 March 2014, 20:21   #48
delshay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: uk
Posts: 245
This is suppose to be world record,but I disagree as he has higher cycle time.

http://hwbot.org/submission/2500824_...do_ram_140_mhz
delshay is offline  
Old 13 February 2018, 10:46   #49
nexus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 181
guess what i have its EDRAM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4MB-EDRAM-S...UAAOSw7p5aX3dc


also bought a bunch of chips
and i know how to get more just fyi

some chips say RAMTRON
nexus is offline  
Old 13 February 2018, 14:20   #50
pandy71
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: PL
Posts: 1,632
This is EDRAM - DRAM with embedded cache SRAM (4KB) - they may not work at all or they will work as regular DRAM (no FPM, no nibble, no burst, no EDO etc).
From data sheet they look like 65ns DRAM. So fancy modules but without special controller it will be difficult to go over 65ns. https://books.google.pl/books?id=so8...amtron&f=false
pandy71 is offline  
Old 13 February 2018, 20:25   #51
nexus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 181
they are dram with sram on the row registers they can be 35ns or down to 12ns possible from the sram

http://www.ic72.com/pdf_file/d/11866.pdf
http://www.ic72.com/pdf_file/d/11870.pdf
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/c...y_Products.pdf

Due to its fast 12ns cache row register, the
EDRAM memory module supports zero-wait-state burst read
operations at up to 50MHz bus rates in a non-interleave configuration
and 100MHz bus rates with a two-way interleave configuration.
On-chip write posting and fast page mode operation supports
12ns write and burst write operations. On a cache miss, the fast
DRAM array reloads the entire 2KByte cache over a 2KByte-wide bus
in 18ns for an effective bandwidth of 113.6 Gbytes/sec. This means
very low latency and fewer wait states on a cache miss than a non-
integrated cache/DRAM solution. The JEDEC compatible 72-bit SIMM
configuration allows a single memory controller to be designed to
support either JEDEC slow DRAMs or high speed EDRAMs to provide
a simple upgrade path to higher system performance.

they also made these sram hybrids for sdram etc(ESDRAM)

ESDRAM (Enhanced Synchronous DRAM), made by Enhanced Memory Systems, includes a small static RAM in the SDRAM chip. This means that many accesses will be from the faster SRAM. In case the SRAM doesn't have the data, there is a wide bus between the SRAM and the SDRAM because they are on the same chip. ESDRAM is the synchronous version of Enhanced Memory Systems's EDRAM architecture. Both EDRAM and ESDRAM devices are in the category of cache DRAM and are used mainly for L1 and L2 .

ESDRAM is apparently competing with DDR SDRAM as a faster SDRAM chip for Socket 7 processors


The EDRAM memory module architecture is very similar to a standard 4MB DRAM module with the addition of an integrated
cache and on-chip control which allows it to operate much like an EDO DRAM.
The EDRAM’s SRAM cache is integrated into the DRAM array as tightly coupled row registers. The EDRAM has a total of four
independent DRAM memory banks each with its own SRAM row register. Memory reads always occur from the cache row register of
one of these banks as specified by row address bits A 2 and A 9 (bank select)


there is also a EDO version

The Enhanced Memory Systems Multibank EDO 4MB EDRAM
SIMM module provides a single memory module solution for the
main memory or local memory of fast PCs, workstations, servers, and
other high performance systems. Due to its fast 12ns cache row
register, the EDRAM memory module supports zero-wait-state burst
read operations at up to 83MHz bus rates in a non-interleave
configuration and 132MHz bus rates with a two-way interleave configuration.

Last edited by nexus; 13 February 2018 at 21:59.
nexus is offline  
Old 15 February 2018, 15:28   #52
pandy71
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: PL
Posts: 1,632
tc for your module is 65ns (based on datasheet), you will be unable to use cache without controller (you need to support hit/miss signal etc) - from Amiga perspective they may work as normal DRAM.
pandy71 is offline  
Old 19 February 2018, 09:06   #53
nexus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 181
controller is in the chip
also anything that supports fpm/edo will see improvement
nexus is offline  
Old 20 February 2018, 18:45   #54
pandy71
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: PL
Posts: 1,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by nexus View Post
controller is in the chip
also anything that supports fpm/edo will see improvement
Definitely you should check page 2-143 in provided by you Ramtron document. To fully use EDRAM you need to have dedicated memory controller that doesn't exist on Amiga.
Same for other special modes like EDO - there is no Amiga memory controller capable to use FPM or EDO common on PC (EDO support was added in PC later and not without problems - not all PC chipsets was capable to use EDO) - there is only one special special DRAM timing mode requiring static column DRAM IC's useable in Amiga by RAMSEY - generally all Amiga models used standard timing (not sure about AGA - perhaps there is some FPM implemented to improve overall bandwidth with FMODE configuration). Sorry.
pandy71 is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A1200 crashes using EDO RAM hardwir3d support.Hardware 9 17 April 2010 14:09
EDO RAM Voltages DDNI support.Hardware 8 16 May 2007 19:12
Edo Simm Wanted Solid Snake request.Other 1 09 January 2007 19:36
Blizzard 1230 and EDO RAM? gizmomelb support.Hardware 4 21 February 2006 22:13
EDO RAM question oldpx support.Hardware 16 12 March 2002 22:31

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.07939 seconds with 15 queries