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Old 11 August 2017, 09:15   #1101
plasmab
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Expansion board for the CD32

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Originally Posted by Cylon View Post
What i could affort != expensive.

Expensiveness is relative to value of use or value of those parts.



And i donot criticize, i mentioned my view. Btw what is spidis adapter?


You cannot simply look at the parts.



Cost of Parts is roughly 20 euros. It took me over an an hour to solder all the connections on kipper2k's card.. because there are almost 400 fiddly to get at through hole solder joints. So at minimum wage thats 10 euros an hour... So we're at 30 euros now. Thats *cost* of manufacture of a single unit. You need to factor in the time taken to design into the cost for failures and prototypes etc. (peoples time costs money. period. time is waaay more expensive than the parts). so lets add 5 euros. 35 euros.



Now we add 15% profit because any company is allowed to make a profit. ... thats roughly 5 euros per unit (which is a low profit on stupidly low volumes like this). gives 40 euros. Now add sales tax .. %20 = 48 euros.



Thats the absolute lowest i could sell that for and i would be making virtually no return for it. 5€ per unit.. which if something goes wrong or someone smashes it and returns it i lose the whole 40 euros. Not likely to take a risk on selling these less than 60 euros.



Stop fixating on parts cost. Frankly parts are almost irrelevant in this sale. The skills and the risk in holding the stock are what you are paying for. And you said yourself you dont have the skills. thats what costs the money. If you invested in learning those skills it would cost you time and money and you still have to spend more money to make one of those risers that Spidi is offering them at.

EDIT: I keep hearing "I just want a solution" in the Amiga world but the reality is that people bitch about the cost when you provide one. This is why I don't. Its also probably why nobody sells completed versions of my boards in bulk.

EDIT2: also remember that a sale from a retailer entitles you to many more rights than a private sale (at least in Europe) and retailers increase prices to cover the costs/risks incurred from these rights.

Last edited by plasmab; 11 August 2017 at 10:39.
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Old 11 August 2017, 14:01   #1102
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Thank you all for clarification. I'm aware of the fact that a commercial reseller would have to ask app. 2.5 times the price of his initially overall costs, as Dave from EEVblog puts it. Unfortunately for me i can solder but not design pcbs (easily). So i have to wait for the opportunity to buy a PCB from somewhere while waiting for the connectors to arrive here.
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Old 11 August 2017, 17:09   #1103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kipper2k View Post
+ the cost of the pic chip if you want the Keyboard addon
Plus the cost of a PIC programmer if you don't have one.


It's really fucking annoying that people in Amiga land are such cheapskates. I am broke as fuck, but I don't complain about what most things cost, unless they are really stupid ridiculous (like some Backbone game sold for 40 euros).

Let's talk about where to reliably get: RAM chips, RAM CPLD and if I can change the
JTAG connector for square terminals. I think I am ready to partake in this project if I get hold of a clean board, and if not, I have a friend who can help me.

Do you think it's possible to build without a hot air station? I don't really think it'd be great, but I soldered many close tiny contacts with a fine tip, so maybe I can. The hardest part to me seems keeping the component in place.
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Old 11 August 2017, 18:25   #1104
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Plus the cost of a PIC programmer if you don't have one.


It's really fucking annoying that people in Amiga land are such cheapskates. I am broke as fuck, but I don't complain about what most things cost, unless they are really stupid ridiculous (like some Backbone game sold for 40 euros).

Let's talk about where to reliably get: RAM chips, RAM CPLD and if I can change the
JTAG connector for square terminals. I think I am ready to partake in this project if I get hold of a clean board, and if not, I have a friend who can help me.

Do you think it's possible to build without a hot air station? I don't really think it'd be great, but I soldered many close tiny contacts with a fine tip, so maybe I can. The hardest part to me seems keeping the component in place.
Here is the pic chip i intend on using for the adapter...

https://www.digikey.ca/product-detai...-I-P-ND/529766 $2.50 CAD so dirt cheap and through hole, so just buy a through hole socket and its done. The adapter is just a pain due to the amount of holes that need to be soldered

For the making of the tf328 then you do not need hot air, just lots of "rosin flux" to prevent solder bridges and a decent soldering iron. The only component that is a pain to solder is the small 5 pin logic chip (which is optional). I found the ram chips hard to get so i am going to use cheaper ones and i am also using leaded solder which is also easier to use than unleaded.

One of the simplest ways to solder the 4 sided cplds is to use "Drag" soldering,...

[ Show youtube player ]

practice makes perfect, there is no magic bullet.

for the jtg connectors you can use the single row connectors that come in strips of 40...

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/40Pin-2-54mm-...oAAOSwHQ9WT~3l

Last edited by kipper2k; 11 August 2017 at 18:30.
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Old 11 August 2017, 18:43   #1105
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That video makes it look really easy doubt it is so, though.
So he put a blob of solder on the first pin(s) and then it spread across the other pins after applying flux?
I need to get some flux.
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Old 11 August 2017, 18:50   #1106
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That video makes it look really easy doubt it is so, though.
So he put a blob of solder on the first pin(s) and then it spread across the other pins after applying flux?
I need to get some flux.

Yup, the key is flux, dont be shy putting it on, tack a couple of pins on opposite corners to hold it in place, wet the chip, and use a small amount of solder and in a continuous movement drag it from one end to the other. if you use too much you can use desoldering braid to remove excess/bridges.

for cleaning, use a toothbrush and isopropyl alcohol
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Old 11 August 2017, 19:05   #1107
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I haven't been really successful in using my braid yet. I think maybe I have too little a gauge of braid, but this week I was desoldering some standard through-hole chips and it was a royal pain in the ass. I think I need more practice with the braid.
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Old 11 August 2017, 19:08   #1108
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Expansion board for the CD32

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I haven't been really successful in using my braid yet. I think maybe I have too little a gauge of braid, but this week I was desoldering some standard through-hole chips and it was a royal pain in the ass. I think I need more practice with the braid.


Desoldering through hole without a preheater station is about as hard as soldering gets. BGA rework aside


Its why I hate through hole. SMD is so much easier

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Old 11 August 2017, 22:45   #1109
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I ordered parts to build a small number of plasmab's TF328s (well, 3 of them). I will keep 1 for myself and try to sell the remaining two. There is no point in making more at this time, since kipper's edition will be much cheaper to build due to much cheaper ram chips. Now of course I'm playing the waiting game with getting the PCBs delivered. Hopefully it'll be a bit faster than the usual 2 months this time around.
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Old 11 August 2017, 23:01   #1110
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Originally Posted by kipper2k View Post
I will release the gerber files for my 2 versions of CD32 adapter once i have finished cleaning it up
A big thank you to kipper2k!
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Old 12 August 2017, 00:39   #1111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akira View Post
That video makes it look really easy doubt it is so, though.
So he put a blob of solder on the first pin(s) and then it spread across the other pins after applying flux?
I need to get some flux.
If you use a well tip it's actually pretty easy. If you don't have a well tip, use a chisel tip. Almost never want to use a fine tip because heat transfer is really slow with one and you can easily lift the pad. Flux, flux, flux makes it easy.

With MY hands and eyes these days, I can do this kind of soldering much easier than through hole because I don't have to hold the iron steadily in one place. Just load up the iron with solder and swipe. I usually do two swipes because of my hands and eyes. First swipe gets the solder on and the second clears up any bridges and dags.
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Old 12 August 2017, 00:43   #1112
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Originally Posted by pgovotsos View Post
If you use a well tip it's actually pretty easy. If you don't have a well tip, use a chisel tip. Almost never want to use a fine tip because heat transfer is really slow with one and you can easily lift the pad. Flux, flux, flux makes it easy.

With MY hands and eyes these days, I can do this kind of soldering much easier than through hole because I don't have to hold the iron steadily in one place. Just load up the iron with solder and swipe. I usually do two swipes because of my hands and eyes. First swipe gets the solder on and the second clears up any bridges and dags.
K tips are the best for drag soldering. But nobody believes me.
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Old 12 August 2017, 00:52   #1113
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I haven't been really successful in using my braid yet. I think maybe I have too little a gauge of braid, but this week I was desoldering some standard through-hole chips and it was a royal pain in the ass. I think I need more practice with the braid.
It's expensive to buy, but a desoldering iron is worth its weight in gold. It's usually a gun shaped iron that basically combines a solder sucker and iron in one tool.

The tip is a tube instead of a solid one. You put the tip around the pin to melt the solder then pull the trigger to turn on the vacuum and suck the solder away. It can usually remove the solder from both sides of the board. There are different sized tips to accommodate different sizes of pins.

You do want to make sure that the solder is completely molten before vacuuming. Hold the trigger long enough to make sure that the solder is completely sucked into the reservoir and not stuck in the tube of the tip. There is a filter in the reservoir that needs to be replaced. The solder loaded air goes through the filter, catching the solder so just air is exhausted. Eventually it gets clogged with solder and needs to be replaced.

$100 give or take from Amazon. Less for a no name, a good bit more for a name brand like Haako - $200+. But you can desolder all day long, easy peasy.
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Old 12 August 2017, 00:55   #1114
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Originally Posted by pgovotsos View Post
It's expensive to buy, but a desoldering iron is worth its weight in gold. It's usually a gun shaped iron that basically combines a solder sucker and iron in one tool.

The tip is a tube instead of a solid one. You put the tip around the pin to melt the solder then pull the trigger to turn on the vacuum and suck the solder away. It can usually remove the solder from both sides of the board. There are different sized tips to accommodate different sizes of pins.

$100 give or take from Amazon. Less for a no name, a good bit more for a name brand like Haako - $200+. But you can desolder all day long, easy peasy.
Anything less than $500 for soldering equipment is not expensive. But yes. Good gear saves you lots of time and tears.
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Old 12 August 2017, 01:40   #1115
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Anything less than $500 for soldering equipment is not expensive. But yes. Good gear saves you lots of time and tears.
I got this one for $150. It works well with the amount of work I do. Don't know how it would do for high volume. It has fairly good reviews with 4.5 of 5 stars.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00ABJ4AEC/
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Old 12 August 2017, 03:15   #1116
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Thanks for that! Desoldering iron sounds great, I didn't know it existed!
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Old 12 August 2017, 16:13   #1117
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Anyone got a link where to buy the 4 ram chips for steve`s board ? ,just want to get the right ones
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Old 12 August 2017, 17:50   #1118
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Yeah seems like my question keeps getting dodged, I also can;t find the RAM CPLD.
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Old 12 August 2017, 17:55   #1119
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Yeah seems like my question keeps getting dodged, I also can;t find the RAM CPLD.

https://www.digikey.ca/product-detai...1388-ND/826991

https://www.digikey.ca/product-detai...1385-ND/826988


there are the 2 cplds from digikey, bought and tested, i'll find the ram chips.

I checked digikey and mouser, they do not have the tsop(50) 44. you need to be careful which one you buy as there are 2 different tsops.

I changed my ram type to the same ram i used on the a508ide boards as it is more available. Anyone else know a place for the TSOP44(50)-II RAM ?


I screwed up my first mod board, (wrong routing of data lines so it will be a few more weeks before i can hopefully show a working one

Last edited by kipper2k; 12 August 2017 at 18:04.
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Old 12 August 2017, 18:00   #1120
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I got the ram chips from mouser.


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