Appiah's comprehensive 15KHz monitors list of caveat emptor

[Jope]

Are you trolling? :-D

The Amiga is made for a 4:3 crt, the Amiga (neither PAL or NTSC) does not have square pixels in non-interlaced modes.

[grelbfarlk]

Originally Posted by jbenam

Yep, but even better, it has a 5:4 mode! Which, from what I've read around, is the aspect ratio an Amiga is made for

Depends on how you look at it, 640x512 (PAL Hires Interlace) is a 5:4 aspect ratio, what shape the pixels end up on your display device is dependent on the display device. And Amiga is made for NTSC which 640x400 (NTSC Hires Interlace) which is 8:5 aspect ratio.

Anyway can you try NTSC modes to see if it displays 60hz? Also do interlace modes work?

[jbenam]

Originally Posted by Jope

Are you trolling? :-D

The Amiga is made for a 4:3 crt, the Amiga (neither PAL or NTSC) does not have square pixels in non-interlaced modes.

Wut.

I'm quoting you here:

Originally Posted by Jope

So indeed, the Amiga's resolution is 5:4 but back in the day we watched these with 4:3 screens, so the Amiga's pixels were not square.

If you draw a perfect circle in a non laced mode on a 4:3 screen, it will be stretched on a 5:4 screen.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...ge=2&styleid=1

[Jope]

Hmm, I don't see where I contradicted myself there?

Non square pixels, check.
Everyone had 4:3 monitors back then, check. :-)

ACER S242HLK Cbid ..
Mfg. Date Feb 2015

See Attach Pictures.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by Jope

The Amiga is made for a 4:3 crt, the Amiga (neither PAL or NTSC) does not have square pixels in non-interlaced modes.

Double scan modes

[Jope]

Originally Posted by Thorham

Double scan modes

Ha, got me there. ;-) So let's emphasize that I was talking about the normal progressive PAL or NTSC modes the Amiga booted up into with OCS when the damn thing was designed. :-)

[amigoun]

Originally Posted by Avathor

ACER S242HLK Cbid ..
Mfg. Date Feb 2015

Nice. An obvious question, does monitor allows stretching to 4:3 ratio?

[jbenam]

Originally Posted by Jope

Hmm, I don't see where I contradicted myself there?

Non square pixels, check.
Everyone had 4:3 monitors back then, check. :-)

Yeah, I totally missed the "non" before square. Cheers

[grelbfarlk]

Originally Posted by grelbfarlk

Depends on how you look at it, 640x512 (PAL Hires Interlace) is a 5:4 aspect ratio, what shape the pixels end up on your display device is dependent on the display device. And Amiga is made for NTSC which 640x400 (NTSC Hires Interlace) which is 8:5 aspect ratio.

Anyway can you try NTSC modes to see if it displays 60hz? Also do interlace modes work?

I decided to try the SE2717H and it works, but interlace modes are terrible. Each line is doubled and offset by a pixel, while it is legible it looks bad AND it flickers. Though it does support NTSC 15khz in all modes even SuperHires Lace. Non interlaced modes look fine. So here's a 27 inch monitor that is on sale right now that works with Amiga Modes with the caveat of don't expect to use it with 640x480 or 640x512 interlaced. But for $180 USD I'm not complaining-much. It also has physical buttons instead of capacitative buttons like some other Dell monitors have so that's another slight plus.

Also I used a non-buffered adapter, just a straight through cable from RGB->VGA.

The onscreen display calls it SE2717H/X so I'm guessing the SE2717HX probably works the same.

[alpine9000]

Originally Posted by grelbfarlk

I decided to try the SE2717H and it works, but interlace modes are terrible. Each line is doubled and offset by a pixel, while it is legible it looks bad AND it flickers. Though it does support NTSC 15khz in all modes even SuperHires Lace. Non interlaced modes look fine. So here's a 27 inch monitor that is on sale right now that works with Amiga Modes with the caveat of don't expect to use it with 640x480 or 640x512 interlaced. But for $180 USD I'm not complaining-much. It also has physical buttons instead of capacitative buttons like some other Dell monitors have so that's another slight plus.

Also I used a non-buffered adapter, just a straight through cable from RGB->VGA.

The onscreen display calls it SE2717H/X so I'm guessing the SE2717HX probably works the same.

I tried one today. Works great!

All 15khz non-laced (PAL) modes work well for me. As you said, forget interlaced modes unless you are trying to induce a seizure. The non-laced multisync productivity mode is an OK choice mode for an unaccelerated workbench if you want a higher resolution.

Have you played with any settings like sharpness etc ?

[amigoun]

That sounds great. Can you mates try if aspect settings work in 15kHz mode, and also tweaking by pixel click?
Can you also check if patterns look good (can be tweaked to look good)?

[grelbfarlk]

I haven't tried to get the screen stretched correctly yet. The interlace stuff is pretty weird it's like a setting to adjust convergence on CRTs would help here but of course no thing exists in the controls. It's like it's drawing the second field one pixel down from the first field.

And yes the 4:3 5:4 and 16:9 aspect modes all work in 15khz.

Here's an NTSC closeup at at 640x200:


And a PAL closeup:

[alpine9000]

Originally Posted by amigoun

That sounds great. Can you mates try if aspect settings work in 15kHz mode, and also tweaking by pixel click?
Can you also check if patterns look good (can be tweaked to look good)?

I get visible vertical artefacts with the pattern. Playing with things like the pixel clock rate/sharpness changes it, but I couldn't eliminate them.

[amigoun]

Thanks, patterns are difficult to display correctly. So far I have seen only BenQ BL912/ 702A (from my picture) can be tuned to display them correctly. Maybe changing the aspect and fine-tune with phase may help.

[grelbfarlk]

At 640x480@60hz from the Merlin it passes the pattern test-but that really has no bearing on anything since it was 15khz we were interested in. Also it's strange there's no normal width+height adjustments it just seems you have up/down left/right adjustments and use the 16:9 5:4 and 4:3 modes to stretch it. Maybe there's a ROM update for this thing.

[alpine9000]

Interlace with non workbench stuff like demos/slideshows is not much different to a crt

[kovacm]

Samsung Syncmaster 150MP CRT 14 Yes
Samsung Syncmaster 151MP CRT 14 Yes
Samsung Syncmaster 170MP CRT 17 Yes
Samsung Syncmaster 171MP CRT 17 Yes

are NOT crt monitors but LCD...

[kovacm]

btw
I am looking for CRT monitor that can display both 15KHz and VGA 31KHz signal.
Is there any beside Nec Multysinc 3D ?

e.g.
Sony PVM can not display 31KHz signal...

[idrougge]

Yes, there are lots.
Idek/Iiyama 5017/5021, NEC Multisync II, Eizo 9050/9060, Nokia 417TV, several Commodore monitors, several Acorn monitors, several Microvitek monitors.