New Amiga motherboards from Jens

[Daedalus]

Well, serial port, but yes it is trivial to build an interface, thanks to the Amiga CIA's quite flexible serial port. And most older stuff supports those adaptors directly.

[SKOLMAN_MWS]

Already better integrate http://www.vlsi.fi/en/products/vs1053.html

Then you can use the hardware PCM Mixer.

[Megol]

Originally Posted by SKOLMAN_MWS

Already better integrate http://www.vlsi.fi/en/products/vs1053.html

Then you can use the hardware PCM Mixer.

MIDI is for connecting external devices, both input and output. While cool I don't see how that chip helps for that.

[Marmes]

Midi is like rx/tx, for recieving you need an optocoupler I think. If Icomp listens to all requests, it will be a messy product. He will launch what he thinks is ok for him, if you share the same opinion, then you should buy it.

[SKOLMAN_MWS]

MIDI is a superfluous gadget.

Try decode the audio AAC/MP4Audio on 060. VS1053 does it on the fly.

[dJOS]

Originally Posted by SKOLMAN_MWS

MIDI is a superfluous gadget.

Try decode the audio AAC/MP4Audio on 060. VS1053 does it on the fly.

I disagree, my Roland MT32 is great with the Amiga games that support it. E.g. monkey island and Sierra games.

[SKOLMAN_MWS]

Originally Posted by dJOS

I disagree, my Roland MT32 is great with the Amiga games that support it. E.g. monkey island and Sierra games.

Try decode the audio AAC/MP4A on Amiga without PPC. LOL

[kolla]

What does decoding of audio files have to do with MIDI?

[SKOLMAN_MWS]

As I wrote MIDI is superfluous gadget that as someone che you can connect up to the Amiga right now.

[eXeler0]

Adding MIDI is not a bad idea per se but it IS a feature not everyone would use.
The Jens-way of doing things could be compared to Ryan Air business model.You only get the essential then you pay extra for the add ons...
Its not really anything wrong with that but there are ppl who dont always strive for bare minimum of everything.
If this wasnt such a nische market there would be someone else making a more costly version with a bunch of non essential bells and whistles added.
And some ppl would go for the Jens bare bone version and others would gladly spend a few extra bucks for a more feature rich mobo.
It just so happens we dont have a lot of choices anymore. Jens' version will have to do and he happens to prefer the bare bone strategy...

[ReadOnlyCat]

Actually, I would be willing to bet Jens would gladly do any extension you want, provided he is guaranteed to see his research and development costs paid for.

The reason he limits his design to the biggest common denominator is probably that it is the only way to make sure he can reimburse his R&D costs.

This would be a fairly reasonable stand if you ask me.

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat

Actually, I would be willing to bet Jens would gladly do any extension you want, provided he is guaranteed to see his research and development costs paid for.

The reason he limits his design to the biggest common denominator is probably that it is the only way to make sure he can reimburse his R&D costs.

This would be a fairly reasonable stand if you ask me.

Well there are no such guarantees in the hardware biz, are there?

We all know about the other products Jens is already selling which you can easily add to the Reloaded to get additional features.
We can all be sure Jens has put a lot of though into the design and it will surely be the most effective design from his point of view.
But it is understandable that those ppl who dont necessarily count every $/€/£ and would rather have a more feature rich mobo from the start instead of littering the desk with a crapload of addons.

[ReadOnlyCat]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

Well there are no such guarantees in the hardware biz, are there?

Absolutely, the only way to give him guarantees would be to pay his R&D costs in advance possibly in exchange for royalties on the sales.

[Schoenfeld]

Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat

Absolutely, the only way to give him guarantees would be to pay his R&D costs in advance possibly in exchange for royalties on the sales.

A bit more than that - if you want a product that I design, but your specifications, you'll have to take the whole risk of production, keeping stock and providing customer support. So far, not a single contract like that has been made in the Amiga/Retro sector (only in telecoms). Seems like I'm the only one actually taking a risk. And while this is the case, I also have the final decision about specifications.

Price *is* a key factor. Sure, some die-hard Amiga fans would like to see a feature-rich motherboard that will make any Amigan drool, and some of them would even pay the price. However, it's not enough to justify a production run. I can verify this on the current accelerators: The ACA1221 sells like hot cakes, and the ACA1232-50/ACA1233-55 is an extremely slow seller (similar to the ACA630 back when it was blocking lots of my money and lots of space in my stock).

The new fast accelerators even share a hardware basis that has been available before, but the small quantity pushes the price into a region where only a few customers are left. They would be even more expensive if a new design "from scratch" had been required, and had that been the case, I would have decided to not buy the fast CPUs at all because an even-more expensive accelerator doesn't sell enough units in a lifetime to pay for it's development.

Jens

[MrDBUG]

Will the Flickerfixer Indivision output board have smooth scroll ?? 50hz ? I guess the HDMI output will atleast ? Not VGA ?

[gulliver]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

A bit more than that - if you want a product that I design, but your specifications, you'll have to take the whole risk of production, keeping stock and providing customer support. So far, not a single contract like that has been made in the Amiga/Retro sector (only in telecoms). Seems like I'm the only one actually taking a risk. And while this is the case, I also have the final decision about specifications.

Price *is* a key factor. Sure, some die-hard Amiga fans would like to see a feature-rich motherboard that will make any Amigan drool, and some of them would even pay the price. However, it's not enough to justify a production run. I can verify this on the current accelerators: The ACA1221 sells like hot cakes, and the ACA1232-50/ACA1233-55 is an extremely slow seller (similar to the ACA630 back when it was blocking lots of my money and lots of space in my stock).

The new fast accelerators even share a hardware basis that has been available before, but the small quantity pushes the price into a region where only a few customers are left. They would be even more expensive if a new design "from scratch" had been required, and had that been the case, I would have decided to not buy the fast CPUs at all because an even-more expensive accelerator doesn't sell enough units in a lifetime to pay for it's development.

Jens

I do agree that price is a key factor. But you dont seem to factor in, price for features/performance. For example your ACA 1221 is selling so good, because it gives users a very good (if not exceptional) price/performance ratio compared to other solutions.

The ACA1232-50/ACA1233-55, on the other hand, is a bad price/performance ratio product. Any Amiga user can buy a better accelerator for that money. You can buy a 68040 accelerator that comes with an FPU and an RTC for about a few bucks more (I sold mine six months ago for less than what you charge for the ACA1233-55). So in this case, I am not saying that your product is selling slowly because it is bad. It is just because it is too expensive for what it offers to users compared to other solutions. So only few will choose it.

So price is a key factor, but is not everything. Most Amigans are mature men that can probably afford high-end Amiga hardware if they think it is worth it. If not think about how many Amigans bought extremely pricey hardware such as the AmigaOne X-1000 and its family of related motherboards.

[traal]

Originally Posted by gulliver

For example your ACA 1221 is selling so good, because it gives users a very good (if not exceptional) price/performance ratio compared to other solutions.

For its low price, the ACA1221 is a no-brainer at the low end.

Originally Posted by gulliver

Most Amigans are mature men that can probably afford high-end Amiga hardware if they think it is worth it.

This is why I'm struggling to determine who is the target demographic for the ACA1232-50/ACA1233-55, which isn't exactly high-end. My best guess is those who can afford more but is willing to put up with something less if it's guaranteed to work with the Amiga Reloaded, unlike the Apollo and even the Blizzard 1260.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by gulliver

You can buy a 68040 accelerator that comes with an FPU and an RTC for about a few bucks more (I sold mine six months ago for less than what you charge for the ACA1233-55).

You are ignoring the fact that buying an ACA accelerator means buying:
1) a NEW product
2) A NEW product with WARRANTY for at least a year
3) A NEW product with WARRANTY and post-sales customer support regarding any problems you have with it.

Whatever used thing you buy will NOT have that. And I think it is VERY IMPORTANT to factor in this into the cost. It's not like the dude creates the thing, sends it to production, sells it and forgets about it. He works constantly on fixing problems, helping customers and stuff.

So saying that it's too expensive for "what it offers", in your case, isn't really valid. You're ignoring a lot that it offers that makes up for the price too.

Also to be fair, the amount of people with an Amiga Xwhatever aren't that many, comparatively.
I am sure a low-cost product from Jens outperforms in units sold any of that niche shit. Because the low-end products are being bought by more than just the hardcore Amiga zealots, they are also bought by casual Amiga aficionados or retrogaming people. And as I said before, they are a lot more in numbers and they DON'T CARE about crunching numbers. They just want a smooth WHDLoad experience (which can be obtained just with an 020 and some really nice Fast RAM)

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by Akira

You are ignoring the fact that buying an ACA accelerator means buying:
1) a NEW product
2) A NEW product with WARRANTY for at least a year
3) A NEW product with WARRANTY and post-sales customer support regarding any problems you have with it.

Whatever used thing you buy will NOT have that. And I think it is VERY IMPORTANT to factor in this into the cost....
8><-------

You know, a whole lot of the old 040 / 060 accelerators have been working just fine for at least 20 years.. that one year warranty on the new card passes quickly, and after that you're in the same position.
Those of us still left in Amigaland are probably in it for the long run and we all have our own stuff we wanna do. So you cant really know if that one year warranty is "that" important for all buyers compared to the speed gain theyd get from a second hand 040 bought from a reliable seller.

Anyhoo, once you accept the fact that there are people out there with a different need than yourself :-) you'll also get that ppl are "concerned" that the Reloaded will "max out" @55MHz 030, because thats Jens' highest end product. (And who knows if Blizzards will work.. ) Making it a fairly pointless mobo for everyone currently at 040/060.

Its probably gonna be a while before we know if the Vampire will work with it...

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

You know, a whole lot of the old 040 / 060 accelerators have been working just fine for at least 20 years.. that one year warranty on the new card passes quickly, and after that you're in the same position.

Not completely. Individual Computers is a functioning company that can directly service their own hardware after the warranty is lost. You can't say the same of Blizzard, Apollo or whatever. And that still makes quite a bit of a difference.

ppl are "concerned" that the Reloaded will "max out" @55MHz 030, because thats Jens' highest end product. (And who knows if Blizzards will work.. ) Making it a fairly pointless mobo for everyone currently at 040/060

To begin, I do know people have different needs than me. I am actually even quoting the needs of the majority, in which I am not included. I am mid-way between a power hungry user and a casual retrogamer. Anyway, my point was towards trying to explain what Jens already explained himself clearly: it's what makes sense for his business model. Let's not forget this is his business and he wants to make hardware that sells well.
With that in mind, it also makes sense from many angles that the only fully supported CPU cards accepted by his motherboard are his own.

People have the choice to support and buy or decide not to. What is really silly is trying to convince someone to do exactly what one wants for them. Jens seems super clear about what his market is and what to sell to whom and for how much.