Windows 95 and the GoldenGate 486SLC

Tryphon · 02 March 2012, 04:28

Hello,

I left my Amiga for a long time. I was bored of it and I recently restarted it.

As you know, working on a GoldenGate is not very usefull: it is now obsolete. A bridgeboard on Amiga is interesting for fun or challenge.

One guy asserts he installed Windows 95 on the GoldenGate with an original floppy set : Cédric Pulrulczyk. You can read his article from Aminet (GGG21.lha). I cannot say if it is a urban legend but I tried this installation on my system.

Without additionnal PC hardware around the Goldengate (sound card, network card, hard drive controler, coprocessor, ...), these commands:
tek060 nocache nodata
digger
give a proper operation without failure.
I can say that the GoldenGate stability is somewhat picky to acheive if you add some new hardware. For example, Cyrix coprocessor I have (25 MHz) make the GoldenGate often unstable. Sometimes, digger command fails with PC-Bios error 92. Adding a hard disk controler (probably newer than my Goldengate) was unsuccessfull (GoldenGate could not find the IDE interface) and the system froze. We could probably obtain better results if the hardware offer some IRQ settings on the card.
I tested my four ISA slots with a video card slotted in each position.

Anyway, with the bare minimum (IIT Math co, 8 MB RAM tested with MemTest, 250 MB HD, ISA bus at 8 MHz, no shadow, and ISA video card) I decided to install Windows 95 (floppy edition, 14 disks) like Cédric Pulrulczyk. The installation process run normally. The first start of Windows 95 hangs. Unfortunatly, Windows hangs during SYSCRITINIT step (in my case). According to Microsoft, no file I/O is allowed during SYSCRITINIT then the BootLog.txt file is not written until the Sys Critical Init is complete. If I understand the start process of Windows, the system.ini file is not read yet. This occurs even in safe mode (I tried digger and digger chip commands to start the Goldengate). At this stage, I do not know what to do to isolate more precisely the problem.

Well, GoldenGate owners, tell us your experience

.

Thank you.

My config:
A2000 rev 6.2,
Kickstart 3.1,
2 MB chip RAM,
TekMagic 060, 128 MB,
GoldenGate 486SLC (from Amigaz

), IIT math co, floppy chip, 16 MB 60 ns and 512 MB CF card,
ISA video card (Trident or AcuMOS),
4 ISA slots 16 bit (soldering two more plugs),
OS 3.9

source · 02 March 2012, 05:00

I have windows 95 on my A386sx 25 bridgeboard. I have an 8 bit sound blaster and a ATI 2 meg graphics board. as for the hard drive I just use a partition from an amiga drive. It is slow, but usable.

Tryphon · 04 March 2012, 04:21

Thank you for this confirmation. I really like to know what is different between Goldengate and A2386SX which can run Win95 without problem.
I just plug a HD controler to replace the Goldengate controler. This one works fine. I install again Windows 95 on this new config and ... the problem remains the same at the first start

Spirantho said on Amiga.org: "Apparently the ECS 486 (and A2386 I think) can run Win95, and the GoldenGate can also but only the floppy disk version; I can state now that the CD version of Win95 balks completely on the GG, but it would be slooow anyway."

Of course I use the floppy version. Without success.
I'm missing something but what?

source · 05 March 2012, 04:19

I installed pcdos 7 that was 2000 compliant then i installed amicdex from aminet. the partition was done using the janus replacement. (I don't think it works with goldengate but not sure). I have to double check, but I think I made a directory on my c drive and copied the win 95 files to a directory on the hard drive. then ran setup from the directory. i had to edit the system.ini file to point to the amouse3.drv for the mouse driver. I downloaded win 95 from vetusware.com. i remember a number of years back trying to install windows 95 floppy version on may 386 but it crashed on install.

on an off side - your GVP 060 card. do you have random lockups with the card. I have a similar setup
a2000 6.2 with 3.1 rom
Megachip
060 GVP 128 Meg ram
indvision ECS
Delfina lite
deneb
cybergraphx 64/3D version 4
A386sx 25 MHx 8 meg zip with a rev to 486 chip clip on
ATI graphics card
soundblaster 8 bit sound
Video Toaster 4000
buddha IDE with a 160 gig drive (partitioned to 120 gig(buddha does not address drives biger than 120 gig)
A 500 watt ATX power supply that has been retroed into the old 2000 psu case.

I don't know if it is a conflict with some of the hardware.
The computer just freezes it could be from a fresh boot and no software being used, it can be when it is copying something over the USB. I had it even hang when I was playing populus with WHDload.

Tryphon · 05 March 2012, 16:26

Well, on Amiga side, I think the system is really stable and the TekMagic is properly configured (burst mode works too).

On the GoldenGate side, the hardware works fine with this basic set:
- optional floppy disk controler (FDC),
- optional math coprocessor,
- builtin hard disk controler (HDC) with 512 MB drive,
- ISA video card.

I can replace the FDC and HDC by an ISA controller card with manual jumper IRQ setting. The system stays stable.

When I plug an ISA PnP card like a sound card, the GoldenGate is not always stable. I have no confirmation that I can use PnP cards on the GoldenGate even if I have MSDOS drivers to set IRQ by software. I do not know what GoldenGate do with PnP cards. Then sure, there exist some hardware conflict.

Anyway, (without PnP hardware plugged) Win95 do not want to start, after a complete installation with a set of floppies or from CDROM files copied on the hard drive. What I believe to know: IRQs are software controled by Win95. For this to work, BIOS setting should have the "PnP OS Installed" set to YES. But there is not this option in the GoldenGate BIOS.

Is it the reason why Win95 refuses to start? I would like to know it.

What is the situation with the A2386SX about the PnP? How it reacts with PnP hardware?

Thank you for your help.

Jope · 05 March 2012, 17:19

PnP is an OS thing. The bridgeboard probably couldn't care less. Install a ICU in your autoexec.bat or config.sys and configure the card(s) with that.

source · 06 March 2012, 22:20

I dont know what the issue was with my floppy install of windows 95. A number of years ago when i did try to install it it did not work either. I gav up on it until recently when i was setting upvthe compter from scratch i aid what the hell and tried it again. The difference was i dowloaded windows from vetusware. It installed well. As for your problem, could it be a irq conflict with the pnp card and an irq with something on the goldengate itself.

Tryphon · 07 March 2012, 21:31

@Jope:
Good idea. Arf! The ICU software is quite hard to find! But I found it. MSD program reports the COM1 port with a connected mouse. Curiously, ICU see nothing, no COM1 detected. I can declare this port and save the changes in ICU ... I am doing a lot of tries with new IRQ settings but it is so looooong!

In the meanwhile, I tried Windows NT4 installation and it works! ... except the COM1 (COM2, LPT1 too; Amiga ports redirected by the GoldenGate). I am unable to use the mouse. For the rest, it is stable. Network detection is very effective. It would be good with the mouse.

@source:
Ok, I plan to use another set of floppies. For speed up, I would like to use a floppy emulator (e0x.com). It needs the use of F11 key. As you know, this key does not exist on Amiga keyboard. Do you know if there is a way to emulate this key (a key combination for example)?

Thank you!

source · 08 March 2012, 03:59

I don't know how to emulate the F11. as for installation. what I have done is copy the files on the floppy to a directory. I then burned a CD with the directiory and an ran the install from the CD. As for the mouse, the bridgeboard emulates the amiga mouse. To get the mouse to work with windows, you need to edit the windows system.ini file and use a specific mouse driver for the bridgeboard amouse3.drv. it is copied to the windows directory on C: I don't know if the goldengate has similar software drivers. take a look at amicdex from aminet to allow you to use a cdrom drive on the amiga side. as a cdrom on the bridgeboard. I think it works with the goldengate as well.

Tryphon · 15 March 2012, 20:38

Thank you again. I made a new battery of tests to install different versions of Win95. No luck. I have a CDROM drive connected and working, but there is no specific mouse driver for the Goldengate, any DOS driver works with the mouse (but not in WinNT4).

There exists a lot of versions of Win95.
@Source, could tell me more about your version? It should be 4.00.950A, B or C. But it is not enough to point the good version. Could you tell me the exact name of the last CAB file, and the size of the biggest CAB file on your Win95 version (that works on your A2386)? This will be very helpful.

Have a good day.

source · 16 March 2012, 03:41

I have it zipped on my hard drive. it is listed as windows 95B. The last cab file is win95_28.cab file size (1,426,482 bytes)
I don't know if they would like a link to the download site so PM me and I will send it that way.

25 August 2012, 16:13

@source, I too went through all versions of Win95, but NT4.0 Workstation gives me the blue screen of death during the first install reboot.

Did you ever find anything to help get this installed? NT4.0 would be an acceptable alternative to 95.

-Allen

source · 25 August 2012, 19:35

I never installed NT. I only have the stock 8 megs ram. I believe the minimum ram requirements are 12 megs. Correct me if I am wrong. As for win 95 I have it working on my A2000 with a rev to 486. However win 95 should work with 386 CPU. If you have more than 8 meg on your bridgeboard do you have a utility to use amiga ram as bridgeboard ram? Do you have a zip to simm converter?

alenppc · 27 August 2012, 15:46

I used to own the 486SLC many years ago. Installing Win '95 wasn't very straightforward: I tried installing the CD version by copying the files onto the HD and the install would always hang. I tried different versions and was never able to make it work. Eventually, I installed a floppy version (wasn't easy to find) and that one worked fine with an ISA video card and a SB16 plugged into the ISA slots on the A4000. I can't remember whether this was A or B version, but I think it was B (22 HD floppies).

02 March 2012, 04:28	#1
Tryphon Registered User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Quebec Posts: 17	Windows 95 and the GoldenGate 486SLC Hello, I left my Amiga for a long time. I was bored of it and I recently restarted it. As you know, working on a GoldenGate is not very usefull: it is now obsolete. A bridgeboard on Amiga is interesting for fun or challenge. One guy asserts he installed Windows 95 on the GoldenGate with an original floppy set : Cédric Pulrulczyk. You can read his article from Aminet (GGG21.lha). I cannot say if it is a urban legend but I tried this installation on my system. Without additionnal PC hardware around the Goldengate (sound card, network card, hard drive controler, coprocessor, ...), these commands: tek060 nocache nodata digger give a proper operation without failure. I can say that the GoldenGate stability is somewhat picky to acheive if you add some new hardware. For example, Cyrix coprocessor I have (25 MHz) make the GoldenGate often unstable. Sometimes, digger command fails with PC-Bios error 92. Adding a hard disk controler (probably newer than my Goldengate) was unsuccessfull (GoldenGate could not find the IDE interface) and the system froze. We could probably obtain better results if the hardware offer some IRQ settings on the card. I tested my four ISA slots with a video card slotted in each position. Anyway, with the bare minimum (IIT Math co, 8 MB RAM tested with MemTest, 250 MB HD, ISA bus at 8 MHz, no shadow, and ISA video card) I decided to install Windows 95 (floppy edition, 14 disks) like Cédric Pulrulczyk. The installation process run normally. The first start of Windows 95 hangs. Unfortunatly, Windows hangs during SYSCRITINIT step (in my case). According to Microsoft, no file I/O is allowed during SYSCRITINIT then the BootLog.txt file is not written until the Sys Critical Init is complete. If I understand the start process of Windows, the system.ini file is not read yet. This occurs even in safe mode (I tried digger and digger chip commands to start the Goldengate). At this stage, I do not know what to do to isolate more precisely the problem. Well, GoldenGate owners, tell us your experience . Thank you. My config: A2000 rev 6.2, Kickstart 3.1, 2 MB chip RAM, TekMagic 060, 128 MB, GoldenGate 486SLC (from Amigaz ), IIT math co, floppy chip, 16 MB 60 ns and 512 MB CF card, ISA video card (Trident or AcuMOS), 4 ISA slots 16 bit (soldering two more plugs), OS 3.9

08 March 2012, 03:59	#9
source Zone Friend Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 734	I don't know how to emulate the F11. as for installation. what I have done is copy the files on the floppy to a directory. I then burned a CD with the directiory and an ran the install from the CD. As for the mouse, the bridgeboard emulates the amiga mouse. To get the mouse to work with windows, you need to edit the windows system.ini file and use a specific mouse driver for the bridgeboard amouse3.drv. it is copied to the windows directory on C: I don't know if the goldengate has similar software drivers. take a look at amicdex from aminet to allow you to use a cdrom drive on the amiga side. as a cdrom on the bridgeboard. I think it works with the goldengate as well. Last edited by source; 08 March 2012 at 04:11. Reason: more info to add.

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02 March 2012, 05:00	#2
source Zone Friend Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 734	I have windows 95 on my A386sx 25 bridgeboard. I have an 8 bit sound blaster and a ATI 2 meg graphics board. as for the hard drive I just use a partition from an amiga drive. It is slow, but usable.

04 March 2012, 04:21	#3
Tryphon Registered User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Quebec Posts: 17	Thank you for this confirmation. I really like to know what is different between Goldengate and A2386SX which can run Win95 without problem. I just plug a HD controler to replace the Goldengate controler. This one works fine. I install again Windows 95 on this new config and ... the problem remains the same at the first start Spirantho said on Amiga.org: "Apparently the ECS 486 (and A2386 I think) can run Win95, and the GoldenGate can also but only the floppy disk version; I can state now that the CD version of Win95 balks completely on the GG, but it would be slooow anyway." Of course I use the floppy version. Without success. I'm missing something but what?

05 March 2012, 04:19	#4
source Zone Friend Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 734	I installed pcdos 7 that was 2000 compliant then i installed amicdex from aminet. the partition was done using the janus replacement. (I don't think it works with goldengate but not sure). I have to double check, but I think I made a directory on my c drive and copied the win 95 files to a directory on the hard drive. then ran setup from the directory. i had to edit the system.ini file to point to the amouse3.drv for the mouse driver. I downloaded win 95 from vetusware.com. i remember a number of years back trying to install windows 95 floppy version on may 386 but it crashed on install. on an off side - your GVP 060 card. do you have random lockups with the card. I have a similar setup a2000 6.2 with 3.1 rom Megachip 060 GVP 128 Meg ram indvision ECS Delfina lite deneb cybergraphx 64/3D version 4 A386sx 25 MHx 8 meg zip with a rev to 486 chip clip on ATI graphics card soundblaster 8 bit sound Video Toaster 4000 buddha IDE with a 160 gig drive (partitioned to 120 gig(buddha does not address drives biger than 120 gig) A 500 watt ATX power supply that has been retroed into the old 2000 psu case. I don't know if it is a conflict with some of the hardware. The computer just freezes it could be from a fresh boot and no software being used, it can be when it is copying something over the USB. I had it even hang when I was playing populus with WHDload.

05 March 2012, 16:26	#5
Tryphon Registered User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Quebec Posts: 17	Well, on Amiga side, I think the system is really stable and the TekMagic is properly configured (burst mode works too). On the GoldenGate side, the hardware works fine with this basic set: - optional floppy disk controler (FDC), - optional math coprocessor, - builtin hard disk controler (HDC) with 512 MB drive, - ISA video card. I can replace the FDC and HDC by an ISA controller card with manual jumper IRQ setting. The system stays stable. When I plug an ISA PnP card like a sound card, the GoldenGate is not always stable. I have no confirmation that I can use PnP cards on the GoldenGate even if I have MSDOS drivers to set IRQ by software. I do not know what GoldenGate do with PnP cards. Then sure, there exist some hardware conflict. Anyway, (without PnP hardware plugged) Win95 do not want to start, after a complete installation with a set of floppies or from CDROM files copied on the hard drive. What I believe to know: IRQs are software controled by Win95. For this to work, BIOS setting should have the "PnP OS Installed" set to YES. But there is not this option in the GoldenGate BIOS. Is it the reason why Win95 refuses to start? I would like to know it. What is the situation with the A2386SX about the PnP? How it reacts with PnP hardware? Thank you for your help.

05 March 2012, 17:19	#6
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,863	PnP is an OS thing. The bridgeboard probably couldn't care less. Install a ICU in your autoexec.bat or config.sys and configure the card(s) with that.

06 March 2012, 22:20	#7
source Zone Friend Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 734	I dont know what the issue was with my floppy install of windows 95. A number of years ago when i did try to install it it did not work either. I gav up on it until recently when i was setting upvthe compter from scratch i aid what the hell and tried it again. The difference was i dowloaded windows from vetusware. It installed well. As for your problem, could it be a irq conflict with the pnp card and an irq with something on the goldengate itself.

07 March 2012, 21:31	#8
Tryphon Registered User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Quebec Posts: 17	@Jope: Good idea. Arf! The ICU software is quite hard to find! But I found it. MSD program reports the COM1 port with a connected mouse. Curiously, ICU see nothing, no COM1 detected. I can declare this port and save the changes in ICU ... I am doing a lot of tries with new IRQ settings but it is so looooong! In the meanwhile, I tried Windows NT4 installation and it works! ... except the COM1 (COM2, LPT1 too; Amiga ports redirected by the GoldenGate). I am unable to use the mouse. For the rest, it is stable. Network detection is very effective. It would be good with the mouse. @source: Ok, I plan to use another set of floppies. For speed up, I would like to use a floppy emulator (e0x.com). It needs the use of F11 key. As you know, this key does not exist on Amiga keyboard. Do you know if there is a way to emulate this key (a key combination for example)? Thank you!

15 March 2012, 20:38	#10
Tryphon Registered User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Quebec Posts: 17	Thank you again. I made a new battery of tests to install different versions of Win95. No luck. I have a CDROM drive connected and working, but there is no specific mouse driver for the Goldengate, any DOS driver works with the mouse (but not in WinNT4). There exists a lot of versions of Win95. @Source, could tell me more about your version? It should be 4.00.950A, B or C. But it is not enough to point the good version. Could you tell me the exact name of the last CAB file, and the size of the biggest CAB file on your Win95 version (that works on your A2386)? This will be very helpful. Have a good day.

16 March 2012, 03:41	#11
source Zone Friend Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 734	I have it zipped on my hard drive. it is listed as windows 95B. The last cab file is win95_28.cab file size (1,426,482 bytes) I don't know if they would like a link to the download site so PM me and I will send it that way.

25 August 2012, 16:13	#12
touringsedan Posts: n/a	@source, I too went through all versions of Win95, but NT4.0 Workstation gives me the blue screen of death during the first install reboot. Did you ever find anything to help get this installed? NT4.0 would be an acceptable alternative to 95. -Allen

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

25 August 2012, 19:35	#13
source Zone Friend Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 734	I never installed NT. I only have the stock 8 megs ram. I believe the minimum ram requirements are 12 megs. Correct me if I am wrong. As for win 95 I have it working on my A2000 with a rev to 486. However win 95 should work with 386 CPU. If you have more than 8 meg on your bridgeboard do you have a utility to use amiga ram as bridgeboard ram? Do you have a zip to simm converter?

27 August 2012, 15:46	#14
alenppc Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Canada Age: 44 Posts: 910	I used to own the 486SLC many years ago. Installing Win '95 wasn't very straightforward: I tried installing the CD version by copying the files onto the HD and the install would always hang. I tried different versions and was never able to make it work. Eventually, I installed a floppy version (wasn't easy to find) and that one worked fine with an ISA video card and a SB16 plugged into the ISA slots on the A4000. I can't remember whether this was A or B version, but I think it was B (22 HD floppies).