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Old 19 June 2017, 20:16   #21
phx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
Whoever is going to do this (if anyone) you could increase your market (potentially) by also writing it for the Atari ST / TT / Falcon030.
For the type of "flick screen style" Galahad has in mind, this would indeed be possible.

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Originally Posted by Akira View Post
There is talent in this community, you are right, but the main issue is communication and willingness to collaborate. Every Amiga user is an island and wants things their own way.
Do you really think this is so much different in the C64 scene?

Even when there is the willingness to collaborate, I made the observation over the past years that as more people a project depends on, as higher is their risk for failure.

It works best with few people, who you know very good, preferably personally.

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I think the Amiga user base is mostly of gamers and users than makers and creatives. The C64 scene has crazy numbers of active creators and demoscene people.
Again, I doubt that there is so much difference. The Amiga scene is much more split up over many different architectures and interests. The classic fans, the NG fans, the OCS/ECS 68000 fans, the 68060 AGA fans, the MorphOS, OS4, AROS fans, etc..
And unlike the C64 there is much more you can do with the system than writing games. On the C64 you have only the base model, which isn't usable for a lot more than games.

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We can't compare fairly.
Indeed. Also it is much easier and quicker to write a game for the limited architecture of a C64 than even the simplest A500 game.
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Old 19 June 2017, 21:02   #22
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Hence why my plan is to start off small and simple, that way, all those involved will see
a quick-ish results for their efforts, and those following the progress will also feel more
positive about future bigger plans.
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Old 19 June 2017, 21:23   #23
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Old 19 June 2017, 22:07   #24
aszu
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who we need is a decent are commited programmers/coders. im sick of backbone crap. there are many talented people here and im 100% sure we wouldn't have any probs with finding graphicians/musicians...
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Old 19 June 2017, 23:20   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phx View Post
Do you really think this is so much different in the C64 scene?
[...]
It works best with few people, who you know very good, preferably personally.
I do think it's different. Also though, I agree on this second paragraph, I don't mean random people have to work with each other like if it was a game jam (recipe for disaster), but:
Quote:
Again, I doubt that there is so much difference. The Amiga scene is much more split up over many different architectures and interests.
This difference is huge! The fragmentation is very important, which makes the limited pool of talent divide their attention among different types of "Amiga". Then I do believe the numbers are smaller, if we compare more fairly, which would be: plain A1200, plain A500, vs. C64.

I get from this thread and the general vibe of this board as a whole, that we are talking here about making a publishable game for plain A500/600/1200 spec, nothing else. And that will narrow down your choices, and makes no sense in considering part of the same pool of talent the people that work on "Amiga NG", because they sure as hell don't release anything for such specs.

I strongly believe that fixed spec hardware makes for the better output on the C64, too, and what you may see as a problem, I see as a blessing, because I judge by the output, and I appreciate hardware milking, which disappears with "upgrade" routes ("just get the newest/fastest thing" mentality the PC world has).

Sure, ok, with the Amiga there's space to do more than just games, but are there that many applications, then, that run in A500/600/1200 barebones spec? Or anyone interested in making such things? Besides me and h0ffman making PT-1210, I don't see much (save for whatever is system stuff).

I just think it's foolish to keep thinking of the Amiga world as one just to clump up numbers or I dunno. People working on one Amiga platform do not work on the other. There's at least three types of "Amiga" nowadays, if not four. They are not all the same.

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Originally Posted by aszu View Post
who we need is a decent are commited programmers/coders. im sick of backbone crap. there are many talented people here and im 100% sure we wouldn't have any probs with finding graphicians/musicians...
I don't think there's none of those. I think there are plenty. But many times people who were making backbone games were told "hey this concept is cool/looks good, why don't you team up with a coder?", the response was negative. Same could be said of super good coders that have pushed games through without the help of a graphician or musician. It has to do with the familiarity phx describes above, which I acknowledge as important, but it also has to do with an insularity to the creative process. With people who are good at their craft, perfectionism will make this an issue.

My suggestion is that people should start to get to know each other better with the intention of maybe making games together. Maybe think of it as some sort of data-date :P If there's a good vibe/common hared ground/ideas, something good can come out of it. But if there's no such thing, then you just don't have to work together.
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Old 19 June 2017, 23:40   #26
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It's normal the C64 has more games because it's a toy compared to what the Amiga can do. There you are with 16 fixed colors, 3-4 colors on every tile, while on the Amiga you have to choose from 4.000 different shades, and you have at least 3 options for graphics, 16/32/64 colors on screen, hardware sprites or blitter objects, sampled sound, dual playfields, sprites as a second playfield, tricky palette arrangement for hardware sprites and many more. Doing games is not a walk in the park on the Amiga.
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Old 20 June 2017, 00:15   #27
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As someone who has purchased several "new" Amiga games, I'm all for this...

One suggestion..
I assume most games would be PAL, which I'm fine with. But if whomever could program them to run in a PAL screen without having to reboot my NTSC Amiga into PAL mode, that would be awesome.. ;-)
(I'm considering modding my 1200 to boot into PAL mode, but only if I'm convinced I won't damage it.. ;-)

Not sure if it's doable programatically without too much trouble, but would be nice..
Won't stop me from buying a decent game tho..

Good luck..

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Old 20 June 2017, 02:06   #28
Akira
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody View Post
It's normal the C64 has more games because it's a toy compared to what the Amiga can do
I read/heard this plenty.

Here is your stuff:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=82357
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=84891

You are one of those talented people I mentioned shooting themselves in the foot because of using "game makers".
You've got some really cool skills and can even cook something decent using terrible or passable engines, but in the end, your end product is constrained by that and there's so much room for improvement if you were to be helped by a coder and a musician. Those games look really cool, if they were done to a "pro" level, that is, coded optimally, running on stock hardware, like phx's Solid Gold or Sqrxz, I would definitely be happy to buy a copy of anything you work on!

Here was your response when I said "wish a coder had helped you":
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody View Post
I thought about it but then would have to wait 5-6 months and maybe stall the project and me get frustrated and drop it. So I went with backbone, 2 weeks, runs on A1200, speed is ok, everybody happy.
Only not everybody would be happy by seeing so much potential spoiled by Backbone. At least I know I am not.
I understand, this is your free time, and by doing something completely on your own you managed to feel satisfied with in the time you deemed sensible to spend on it. Only that is exactly what is kind of in question on this thread (I believe).

Where are all your "walk in the park" C64 games you made anyway? Talking shit about any other platform is easy. They all have their things and complications. And they all have potential to do great things. Let's just respect the output of other scenes and not use lame excuses to justify what is ultimately our own fault. I include myself very much in all of this.

Anyway, the notion that the C64 gets more games just because it's easier to make things for it, is very wrong.
The Amiga doesn't get as many because of many factors, one, for sure, is the machine's more complicated architecture and as a result, amount of time needed for results. The most important one on my view is about collaboration and patience to end product.

In the C64 demoscene peopel form groups and not always they are people that met in person or that completely get along with each other or agree on all ideas, but they get shit done anyway, by compartmentalizing tasks and pooling the collective talents into one solid product. I do feel we need more of that. I understand that if you never been in a demo group, yo u wouldn't get this feeling, but it works.

Look at Powerglove for example, it's been a long time in the making, but I am glad it will come out after all.

Here's looking forward to you managing to find a suitable partner (or more) to make a brilliant game with your cool graphics and ideas.
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Old 20 June 2017, 04:57   #29
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I did mention in the past that i miss having good hand-holding tutorials for Blitz Basic else have some ideas that would love to implement, beside doing music and graphic for other games (did not see the earok one yet though), including most recently the overhaul of Holy Warrior... wonder if might be an interesting project to be published by Psytronik...

video of the game BEFORE overhaul
[ Show youtube player ]

facebook page with overhauls in progress so far:
Holy Warrior on Facebook
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Old 20 June 2017, 08:25   #30
kamelito
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I think that it is a good idea. Tools and libraries should be build along the way and improved over time to match any game type so one can focus on design & game instead of code. This should also reduce development time and time to market.
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Old 20 June 2017, 09:08   #31
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i'd love to see more new games seeing a commercial release on the amiga! i love what psytronik etc are doing on the c64, and it's been great getting new games in proper packaging.
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Old 20 June 2017, 22:34   #32
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Well, the humble speccy has just beat the Amiga to it's first Psytronik release

http://www.psytronik.net/newsite/ind...1-ship-of-doom
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Old 21 June 2017, 13:11   #33
PortuguesePilot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryB View Post
Well, the humble speccy has just beat the Amiga to it's first Psytronik release

http://www.psytronik.net/newsite/ind...1-ship-of-doom
In terms of community dynamics, the speccy isn't so "humble" after all. The Spectrum has a lively community that has been active for decades now and for the last 6 to 7 years has been pouring out quality games time and time again. 99% for free. They're even more active and prolific than the C64 community, which has been praised here already.

It was precisely because of these dynamics within the Spectrum community - of which I partake - that drove me to write those words on the "Would you pay for a new Amiga game? thread that still define what I think of the Amiga community.

Unfortunately, compared to the lively, happy and strolling Spectrum community (if you ignore the WoS recent ordeal), the Amiga community looks, fells and acts very much like a comatose patient on an ICU bed...

Which is unfortunate and, in a way, completely avoidable (if the community had its heart in the right place). I know that programming and making games for the speccy is easier, but still... the difference in the difficulty of making the games does not justify the difference in the community dynamics. It's the attitudes that do.
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Old 21 June 2017, 20:44   #34
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Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot View Post
if you ignore the WoS recent ordeal
Ooh! Please tell. I'm very out of touch with the Speccy community these days. Did I hear Martijn left???

One thing I liked about WOS was that someone created a Usenet mirror. Would love that for EAB :-)
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Old 21 June 2017, 22:36   #35
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An idea of sorts based on Galahad's specs.. Plays like a cross between Jet Set Willy and Dizzy..

Disk Raider - As a computer historian you are tasked with tracking down rare and sacred disks, these disks are scattered across the game world, some will be fiendishly difficult to recover and will require cunning and guile. Will you recover all of the disks and their legacy? Or will they be lost to the Ages?

Doesn't just have to be disks, could be rare computing magazines, parts of a computer etc..

You could have a simple Hub/HQ that you visit, as you find the lost relics they are displayed on the walls or plinths.. The ultimate goal being to fill your museum up with these missing and rare items.

To make things more interesting, if you die (or run out of health) before bringing the items back to the the Hub they are lost, or respawn back to another random location. This might cause players to risk it all or play it safe. Also, by returning to the Hub your health is recharged, perhaps there could be a max limit of 5 items you can carry. If you return with 5 items your reward is greater, if you return with a single item then it's less. Trying to add balance to the search and return loop..?

Last edited by lordofchaos; 21 June 2017 at 22:54.
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Old 21 June 2017, 23:18   #36
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I am sad nobody wants to use the best of the Amiga - AGA chipset. I can never understand the obsession with OCS graphics.
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Old 21 June 2017, 23:52   #37
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@Akira: If I'm not mistaken Nobody has worked recently with Alpine9000 for the creation of Blocky Skies.
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Old 22 June 2017, 00:17   #38
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Originally Posted by Predseda View Post
I am sad nobody wants to use the best of the Amiga - AGA chipset. I can never understand the obsession with OCS graphics.

I have a group of hypothesis so let me explain:

First the numbers. There are much more OCS/ECS amigas than AGA ones, plus most of the games created on OCS/ECS also work on AGA if coded following guidelines, so that guarantees an higher audience.

Second, the tools. Talking about the entry level tools like AMOS and backbone of course; Blitz supports AGA but got less hands-on documentation to delve in and start directly with. Red Pill is in my opinion a game changer and i can expect more AGA stuff made with it in the future.

Third the challenge; AGA games can look and feel like semi-modern PC ones while to get very good results on OCS/ECS a good deal of graphical skills and technical expertise is needed. However i am working for several AGA games music too.
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Old 22 June 2017, 00:26   #39
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@Akira: If I'm not mistaken Nobody has worked recently with Alpine9000 for the creation of Blocky Skies.
Yes i did most of the visuals that you see at that game.
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Old 22 June 2017, 00:50   #40
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Yes i did most of the visuals that you see at that game.
And i took care of the music JMD c'est moi
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