Scart video for NTSC users

[Solo761]

Originally Posted by Higgy

This could well be the TV. LCD TV's have lots of extra processing (I guess CRT basically had nothing!). I noice ghosting/aritfacts near my moving mouse using AMIGA SCART to TV SCART. I am sure it is TV processing.

I see there are a few different ones for sale.
Yours and kipper2k have those extra buttons (PAL/NTSC , 50/60Hz etc).
It is a shame you get the distortion scrolling up the screen. Maybe a setting 50/60Hz switch, a doodgy board, or maybe kipper2k has it too?

I'll try it on my monitor via HDMI-DVI adapter and on my LED projector. If it's present on them it's definitely this adapter. When I got it I tried on the monitor, but I can't remember if there was ghosting, I think there was, but... I was more in "wheeee, it works!!!" mood .

I'm not sure if that PAL/NTSC switch also switcher refresh rate, it could be it's only input resolution switch. I'll have to check, projector always displays input refresh rate.
I just remembered I have pics from my C64, they're perfectly clear. Maybe it's something to do with Amiga signal or with the cable itself. I used stedy's schematic to make it. I might try making one using different schematic. This is how it looks with C64 (I took these when I was testing kernel switch I made)



So far I've mostly saw three types. This one, then one with only one button (720/1080p switch), and the one that looks like the first one, but has no buttons.
Links are to DX listings, first and last one are interesting because one user uploaded review pictures of image comparison with plain RGB and via adapter.

Originally Posted by kipper2k

I opened mine up, it looks the same as Solo's however the board ID printed on the lower right side of the board is different and there may be a few other things too. here is a link to the picture, i'll leave it in hi res so if you want to see it,

http://www.kipper2k.com/scart2hdmi.jpg


one more thing, the Scart cable you are using could be at fault, the one i am using was made by Amigakit and i am not sure if there are resistors etc inside the cable housing

Yup, it looks to be exactly the same. Even the cardboard box it came in. Only visible difference is that ID, probably batch ID. Unfortunately I won't be home until Sunday so I can't take another picture where it's completely visible.

But they're probably the same. It could be the cable's fault, I made it by Stedy's schematic. There aren't any shorts when I checked last time. But it may very well be the cable itself, bad shielding or something like that. C64 cable I made doesn't have any distorsions, but I used different cable for that. It's the same lenght, but it's at least 50% thicker.

*edit*

here's high res picture of mine



ID on mine says TL-01AH2H-2C

Originally Posted by Riempie

Will this adapter work with your cd32 expansion since it will have rgb video?
And is yours ntsc (output) only? Or will it also work with pal output?

AFAIK it should work with anything that usually uses SCART, so far I used it with A500, A1200, C64, Nintendo Gamecube...

There's a button with which you can switch between PAL and NTSC output.

Originally Posted by kipper2k

You don't have scart TV's in Holland ?

Sometimes even if you have SCART it won't play with Amigas , [ Show youtube player ] when I use SCART port on my TV. Even camera was so shocked it couldn't maintain focus .
That's why I got the adapter. At first I thought both of my Amigas were defective, but when I connected them to CRT tv via this same SCART cable picture was perfect.

Also I have small LED projector (Acer K11) that doesn't have SCART input, it has VGA, composite and HDMI, so this way I can connect more devices to it. Like Gamecube. Default connection is composite, and it looks rather blurry, But when I use SCART and this adapter picture is better.

[Benighted]

Glad I found this thread. I received a "new" Amiga 1200 from Petro Tyschtschenko a couple of weeks ago and originally wanted to beef it up with a ACA-1232/40 , Indivision AGA Mk2 CR and of course CF HDD. Now the Indivision don't seem that obvious anymore if this RGB to HDMI adapter works as described. I have read a lot of threads in here talking about various incompatibility issues, ghosting and other issues regarding the Indivisions. Some of these RGB to HDMI boxes are also kind of wonky, but of course you would expect problems with all kinds of mdoern TVs hooked up to new/old hardware. Have you received your box @alenppc and are you using it with an A1200?

[Amiga1992]

I'm interested in this, I might have to give up my lovely UK TV with all its SCART glory for a poopy NTSC US TV

[demolition]

Originally Posted by Solo761

this is what my TV does[/URL] when I use SCART port on my TV. Even camera was so shocked it couldn't maintain focus .

I have seen something similar on a CRT TV a long time ago. It would happen if the TV was not set to AV mode and I turned on the Amiga. I think the RGB signal from the Amiga would then collide with the internal RGB signals of the TV, causing that image. Maybe your TV does not support RGB mode or the voltage on pin 16 is incorrect? You could check the voltage of pin 16 when the Amiga is on and connected to the TV. If the input impedance of the TV is wrong, the voltage would also be wrong.

[mark_k]

Yep, that effect happened with my old TV. If the SCART lead doesn't implement the pin 8 function switching signal, the TV doesn't automatically switch to the SCART input. You need to manually select the SCART input in that case.

[alenppc]

Originally Posted by Benighted

Have you received your box @alenppc and are you using it with an A1200?

I got the box from Amazon, but not the SCART cable from Amigakit yet. Waiting for it to arrive so I can test it.

I will take pics of different TVs to compare how the output looks.

One annoyance is that the box has its own external power supply, so that needs to be dragged everywhere. My power bar is starting to look ridiculous with all the external power supplies attached to it .

[demolition]

Originally Posted by alenppc

One annoyance is that the box has its own external power supply, so that needs to be dragged everywhere. My power bar is starting to looking ridiculous with all the external power supplies attached to it .

Could do what I did in my network-devices cupboard. Since they all needed 5VDC, I found one powerful 5VDC supply and made 4 outputs for it so it alone could run router+switch+firewall+AP. Much neater.

[Solo761]

Originally Posted by Benighted

Glad I found this thread. I received a "new" Amiga 1200 from Petro Tyschtschenko a couple of weeks ago and originally wanted to beef it up with a ACA-1232/40 , Indivision AGA Mk2 CR and of course CF HDD. Now the Indivision don't seem that obvious anymore if this RGB to HDMI adapter works as described. I have read a lot of threads in here talking about various incompatibility issues, ghosting and other issues regarding the Indivisions. Some of these RGB to HDMI boxes are also kind of wonky, but of course you would expect problems with all kinds of mdoern TVs hooked up to new/old hardware. Have you received your box @alenppc and are you using it with an A1200?

It depends on what you intend to connect it. If it's TV try RGB to SCART cable first. It's the cheapest option after all, and you'd need that cable for SCART (RGB) to HDMI box. This adapter does work but it can't beat direct connection. I don't know how Indivision picture quality scales with direct connection.

I've taken few pictures of adapter's output resolution but unfortunately differences don't really show up. Only 800x600 looks a bit blurrier than the rest of them. Differences show only while working in Workbench, but unfortunately (again) my phone which can take HD video can't focus on the screen it goes in and out of focus. Here are the pics, I kept them at (very) high res so be warned

800x600


1024x768


1280x1024


720p


1080p


This is having SCART to HDMI connected to my monitor (Dell U2311H) via HDMI to DVI plug (it's an adapter, but only rewire so it shouldn't impact the image quality).

This monitor supports direct 15KHz so I can connect it directly to Amiga, this is how it looks like, it does a bit of smoothing by itself so it looks basically the same as via this adapter. Only, and biggest, difference is that with adapter it looks strange while browsing menus, kinda like letters are extra blurry for half a second before.

This is how it looks like without any adapters (plain WB, not CWB as in previous pictures).



For some reason it's missing a bit of blue color. Via SCART it's fine, even when I tried to connect it to CRT TV it's fine, only via VGA it's missing a bit blue. I tested with photo editing software, on scale from 0 to 255 plain WB grey is 170 red, 170 blue and 170 green, while this is about 170 for red and green and about 130 for blue . To make matters more strange it's not the cable. When I connect A500 or A600 everything is fine.

As I mentioned, I can't record video of the screen, phone's camera which is 13 Mpix keeps going in and out of focus, while my plain camera is only 3.2 Mpix. Here's how it looks.

[ Show youtube player ]

A bit shaky, it's not easy to hold camera and try to play, and by the time I remembered I had small "gorilla" tripod for it battery went out (I really didn't turn it on for more than a year ).

I didn't notice any lag that would be bothersome, or I simply didn't play enough. Main difference from direct connection (if I disregard weaker blue color on direct) is blurring when I move, pixels do get blurred a bit. Unfortunately it doesn't show on video since overall quality is poor.

Originally Posted by demolition

I have seen something similar on a CRT TV a long time ago. It would happen if the TV was not set to AV mode and I turned on the Amiga. I think the RGB signal from the Amiga would then collide with the internal RGB signals of the TV, causing that image. Maybe your TV does not support RGB mode or the voltage on pin 16 is incorrect? You could check the voltage of pin 16 when the Amiga is on and connected to the TV. If the input impedance of the TV is wrong, the voltage would also be wrong.

I made it according to Stedy's schematic, works fine on two CRT's I've tried. I've also tried one from ebay I got with A600 and it's the same. I doubt it's the cable.

Originally Posted by alenppc

One annoyance is that the box has its own external power supply, so that needs to be dragged everywhere. My power bar is starting to look ridiculous with all the external power supplies attached to it .

It's even more annoying to have it on the same side as the SCART plug, which in my case is the front side , also SCART plugs are tilted, power connector is just on the side it tilts to, probably just to make it more annoying .

[Solo761]

Here are two more vids, these are HD taken with my mobile phone, they're as good as I can make them.

Workbench - [ Show youtube player ]

Soccer Kid - [ Show youtube player ]

I cycled through each resolution (easy to see, camera refocused at switch), this is resolution sequence

800x600
1024x768
1280x1024
1080p
720p

At 800x600 it's blurry, at 1024x768 it's way better and also a bit better at 1280x1024.
At 1080p input lag is really noticable, also mouse ghosting in WB is really noticable. It's a bit better at 720p, both lag and ghosting, but still present. To me 1280x1024 is best compromise, I guess there's a bit input lag, but nothing I really noticed, same with ghosting, it's present but not that much.

[alenppc]

So the cable from Amigakit arrived and I have so far tested the box on 2 TVs. First the super cheap RCA, second my 55" Sony bravia.

The picture is indeed amazing! If you compare it to the results I have obtained with composite in this thread, it's a different universe altogether.

Here's the picture produced on the cheap RCA TV:





Here's a closeup of the box on the Sony bravia:



The colours are crisp, the picture stable. The moiré pattern is produced by the camera.

Compared to the Indivision AGA, the picture is not as sharp, but on the plus side, it fills the entire screen and it can be stretched to 4:3 aspect ratio. The RCA TV refuses to do so with the indivision.

On the other hand, the box does produce some lag. Personally, I have found the 1024x768 to be the best for sharpness/lag.

As Solo761 stated, the 1080p output produces a lot of lag, but in lower resolutions it's not a big deal, even fast games are playable.

All in all, it is esentially a cheap alternative to Indivision, considering it costs about half price, but still a major improvement over composite!

[kipper2k]

Glad you like it, i think it's well worth the money.

[dJOS]

This converter would be perfect if it weren't for the major motion de-interlacing issue (moving objects are really soft and sharpen up when the sprite etc stops moving - it's really really distracting).

It also stretched 4:3 to 16:9 which is very annoying if your tv won't allow you to change the aspect ratio on HDMI sources.

[Solo761]

On some other forum I've stumbled upon similar topic and conclusion is the same, great except this deintralace problem with moving pictures. But they've found an alternative, SCART RGB to YUV Composite from apparently same manufacturer, it doesn't blur moving objects. Here it is

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SCART-RG...item337dfa167b

Few months ago I tried with one SCART to YUV but it didn't work, no picture at all with Amiga .

[alenppc]

Depending on the quality of the output of this other box, this might even be better than the HDMI one, since even the old CRT TVs had component inputs, so it lets you connect a wider variety of devices... Interesting. This is all new stuff, a few years ago when I researched the possibility of a component adapter they used to cost around $800-900...

[dJOS]

I've got one of the RGB-YUV converters that works and for tv's it definitively the best option IMO.

You do need a tv that supports 50 & 60hz modes if you want to use PAL & NTSC amiga's.

[Solo761]

I think that's actually link from your post that I "picked" up elsewhere . It's cca the same price as SCART to HDMI converter, only "problem" is it's from USA, that means at least +1/3 of the price more for shipping :/.

[alenppc]

Originally Posted by dJOS

You do need a tv that supports 50 & 60hz modes if you want to use PAL & NTSC amiga's.

Good point, I forgot about that, most NTSC TVs don't display 50 Hz. So yeah, good idea to stick with the HDMI.

Solo761: Besides the price, the shipping from the USA is incredibly slow. Every time I order something, the parcel usually takes a pointless coast-to-coast scenic tour of the States before crossing the border. Some people were actually able to get postage refunded from Amazon US based on the ridiculous tracking data.

Meanwhile, the stuff coming in from Amigakit UK arrives in a few days. No wonder US postal services are in trouble being so inefficient.

[Solo761]

I think there's some sort of competition which post office is the slowest :/. I ordered ACA620 from Amikit UK 10 days ago, it was shipped 8 days ago and I'm still waiting for the package. It's been 6 days since last tracking update :/.

But so far Chinese post office is in the first place . It's always a lottery with them, sometimes it takes a month, sometimes it takes a week, even for stuff I order on the same day. Month ago I ordered 68 pin SCSI cable and 68 pin to 50 pin SCSI adapter from ebay. I finally got one 4GB SCSI HDD for my A590. It was during Chinese new year week. Guy I ordered cable from supposedly sent it the next day and the adapter guy wrote back that he can send it week later and if that's the problem he'll refund it. Anyway, week later adapter was sent, another week later it arrived. So, even with his sending delay it took two weeks. And cable... it was supposedly sent immediately, but it still didn't arrive. So I have HDD, adapter, A590, but no cable .

Anyway, back to the topic . It seems this SCART to YUV adapter is not from the same guys as SCART to HDMI, although they look similar. Only one seller on ebay has them. I found them also on Amazon, and they're from the same seller. Chinese shops (banggood, dx...) don't have them.

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by dJOS

I've got one of the RGB-YUV converters that works and for tv's it definitively the best option IMO.

Definitely. I've got the CSY-2100, works absolutely flawlessly.

[Solo761]

I'm starting to get really pissed of at my TV...

I opened my RGB SCART to YUV Component adapter and it IS CSY-2100, just in QED branded case.



big picture


I connected Amiga (this time A600, last time I tried A1200) to it and to TV, I thought maybe I did something wrong the first time I tried. But no, TV just says "invalid format". I even used different RGB to SCART cable, this one I didn't made myself :P.

I tried connecting Gamecube to it and that works. I guess my TV (LG) really dislikes amiga signal... :/